Our first year – happy campers 2022 Micro Minnie 2108TB

[souki83]

One Micro Minnie, two fiftysomething, one dog, thirty-three camping nights and thirteen provincial parks from April to October. That’s been our first-year camping with our 2022 2108TB and it’s been a fantastic one. Oh sure, some small issues here and there, but overall, I’d categorize our experience as uneventful when it comes to some of the real larger issues this forum share.

When we bought our MM, we knew we wanted the comfort a TT provides, but most importantly, we wanted to get out and hit the beautiful national, provincial, state, forest parks across Canada and the US. And that too was an absolute success – our respective countries have so much beauty and tranquility to offer when it comes to parks, forests, and land.

For the most part, the provincial parks we hit had shore power and camping was extremely easy. The MM delivered on all fronts. Given that our aspiration is to be able to get out and not having to rely on any external services, we planned a few trips late September and early October where we didn’t rely on any services other than potable water availability so we could fill our fresh tank (I didn’t travel with full fresh tank yet – still wondering if the MM fresh tank is sturdy enough to support 300+ lbs of water over long haul days).

First, some data points:
• I have a single 110Ah AGM battery (55Ah of disposable power).
• I have a 190W of solar panel on the roof.
• I have a Renogy 200W foldable solar side panel to “seek the sun”.
• I have an AC180 Bluetti PPS (1152Wh).
• I have an Ai-Power 3800W DF generator (just in case).
• I have an absorption fridge which doesn’t consume much power – 0.4 to 0.6 Ah.

For the most part, the above worked very well. We were able to easily do 3 nights when the furnace was kept at bay, and we had enough sun to replenish the battery during the day.

Our last weekend was the one that stretched the limits of our system. The weather was cold, and at night, the furnace was on for 5 minutes every 20 minutes for about 10 hours, for a total of 14Ah consumption. With no solar to replenish the batteries during the day, we went as low as 65% of battery capacity after two nights. Even if we were extremely frugal w/ our consumption, we wouldn’t have survived the 3rd night had it not been for the generator. But again, that was cold weather camping.

Given that I’m sensitive to tongue weight and overall payload on my TV (a second AGM would add to much weight), I believe that a simple LiFePO4 upgrade giving me 120Ah-150Ah of availability would be more than enough to cover the cold weather scenario above. The battery would end up being used for anything/everything 12V and that’s it. When we have a need for 110V AC, our Bluetti PPS is plenty (I don’t intend to install an inverter in the camper). I strongly believe that the above would allow us to boondock for 3-4 nights, cold weather or not.

Given that my converter charger is LiFePO4 capable, that my solar charge controllers are MPPT, the last variable I’m paying attention to is the need for a DC-DC charger or not. Do I really need one for those long-haul days? Will a simple 7-pin charging be too harsh on my alternator? I’m following the thread started by Tinglett very closely.

So here you go – a superb camper – an exquisite camping experience - I’m a happy camper

The MM is now winterized and ready to go in hibernation for the long winter months ahead of us.

Attached some camping pics to my profile.

Would like to thank ALL of you here on this forum. You’ve been essential to our journey and an absolute wealth of knowledge when I needed answers.

[Eagle5]

Hi souki83,
An excellent report! Many folks do not get out there to the level you did, and it is fun to read of your journeys. Personally, I have never worried about using my generator when I needed it.
I remember watching an old Western wherein every time this guy went by a stream, he would drink all the water he could; even if he wasn't thirsty. He said the reason was he did not know when he would find the next place to get water. When I have a good source of water, I keep my fresh water tank topped-off. The tanks should be designed to handle the weight of being carried full.
Thanks, Eagle5

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by souki83

The last variable I’m paying attention to is the need for a DC-DC charger or not. Do I really need one for those long-haul days? Will a simple 7-pin charging be too harsh on my alternator? I’m following the thread started by Tinglett very closely.

I'd say it's not a vital addition and it's not at all likely to stress you tow vehicle's alternator.

Here's where a D2D charger would help.

You have been dry camping somewhere a few days and are leaving in the morning with only 20% charge in your battery bank. Your moving to a new place only 2-hours away and you think you'll need fully charged batteries when you arrive.

In that scenario, the D2D will get you closer to a full charge. But without the additional charger, your solar will help during those 3-hours assuming it's sunny. And your tow vehicle will do some as well. A long run of light gauge wires between the tow vehicle and your batteries will assure you of not stressing the alternator, but also not adding a ton of additional charge to your batteries.

But if you're like most folks that leave in the morning with 45% state of charge and need to arrive to your new campground with 75% soc then you will likely not need that extra D2D charger.

Experience with the system will tell you if you need additional charge support or not.

[RocknRoll]

Congrats on a wonderful, successful trip! Sounds like Winnebago has upped their game post-Covid.

Our setups are almost identical with the exception of LiFeP04. I recently upgraded to (2)100AH and have plenty of reserve juice for 3-4 days and like you, supplement with a PPS recharged with solar. I do however mostly alternate between shore power and boondocking so my battery isn't usually depleted very far.

Canada is on my radar next year. I'm currently in Destin on a 10-week journey throughout Florida to the Keys (arrival 11/10). Happy Travels!

[souki83]

Eagle5, creativepart and RocknRoll - thanks for the input. I believe I'll mostly be in the category of folks leaving camp between 45%-55% SOC with 3-4 hours journey to our next camp. In short, 7-pin and 190w-solar-on-the-roof should do the trick, if sunny. We intend to do more dry camping next summer and, as creativepart said, I'll know more then, when I truly tested the system.

Thanks all. If you ever plan to travel to ON or QC, DM me and I'll do my best to guide your journey.

[creativepart]

I have a motorhome, so I disconnected the alternator from the house LFP batteries. I installed the Victron D2D charger as part of that process. But in reality I don't really think I need it all that much.

It's better to have it than to not, but I wish I had taken my own advice and waited to see how things go. It was easy to install and not very expensive. So, I guess it's not that important.

[Marine359]

Steph,
You’ve got plenty of power and Bluetti back up to enjoy countless days of bliss with your new Micro Minnie. We have 300w on the roof and 100w portable serving our 2Kwh LiFePo4. That’s been plenty of juice, even in cool shoulder season. We off load some chores like cpap to a cheapo 300wh portable powerstation. Used to carry a small generator for backup. But no more. We’ve been leaving it at home in favor of carrying our Ecoflow Delta 2 Max 2Kwh powerstation. But gotta have it because our 12v fridge is a power hog. Quiet bliss away from all the generator folks for days.

[OldSup]

Great to hear of your experiences this year in your 2108TB ! We also have a 2022 2108TB and have really enjoyed our experiences. In regards to the water tank, we have hauled with it full several times without any problems. Best of luck going forward.

[Camper1]

Yes, what a great report souki83!


I recently posted about a decision I was making on purchasing a 'New' 2108TB or a 'Used' 2108TB. I reviewed several posts and received replies from 'Eagle5' & 'Marine359' in the Welcome Mat that were very helpful, so thank you Eagle5 & Marine359 and everyone!


I'll post a quick update here: We decided on a 2021 (Not an FLX) which came very well equipped with power:
A second 190W solar panel was added to the roof -
Two, 12.8V-100Ah Victron, LiFePO4 Lithium batteries, mounted in the passthrough storage against the front wall -
Victron MPPT 100 I 50 Charge Controller -
One WZRELB 3000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter -
Fold out steps added for more stability exiting/entering the coach -


Recently I was camping in Eastern OR at 5,600' for 5 days (It was partly sunny) and I did not have to start my Honda 2200W generator!


We're still learning about this power set-up in our new rig. For example:
- There are two 40A fuses added to the fuse box inside the coach. I was told that I need to pull them, before turning on and utilizing the 3,000W inverter. Would this be to protect the other internal circuitry, or prevent backfeed to the inverter?*
- Also, so far, the only way to monitor the Victron batteries is through their app on my smart-phone. Should I hard-wire a battery monitoring device, or is the app sufficient? Probably OK if my phone does not die :-)
- If we're planning on being out longer than 5-7 days, I'd probably just throw the generator in the back of the pick-up, so I don't think I will add a D2D charger.


We've had some issues I've had to deal with (Water Heater-Furnace) and I will post them under the appropriate category in the near future.


I would certainly hope/trust that traveling with 31 gallons of water in the factory installed tank would not be a problem. But, I have heard of tanks falling out of their frame rails before, so??


Thanks again to all!

[OldSup]

Wow Camper1, that's great ! We are going to expand our camping expeditions next year and with the stock 2108TB setup, I need to do something with the battery. My concerns are just getting something so if we stop for a night or 2, I have enough battery to take care of the 12v fridge without using our generators when in a location where they can't be used. We have done enough outings where we know that (unless we change our ways ), we run out of fresh water and grey tank storage. And not that we don't love our rig, we will probably look at something bigger soon, so I don't want to get into lithium.

It's just great hearing about the great experiences people are having with the 2108TB's. They are so easy to pull and you can get them into about anywhere !

[Marine359]

OK,
Here is accurate info about non-FLX Micro Minnies. We’ve had ours for 3 years and did all our upgrades DIY. We’ve got 12,000 miles with it and have loved this RV. Unfortunately, we’ve got to sell it due to health issues: doctor’s orders. I’ll still be lurking the forum because I enjoy the group and would like to pass on what could be valuable info for some owners. Anybody can review my album and welcome to PM me with upgrade installation questions.

Fresh water tank: yes it’s possible for it to fall out if you’re traveling with a full 31 gal load, AND You go off road onto unpaved, ungraded, FS or BLM to boondock. Ours failed on one side. The tapping bolts fell out on one side and the tank support bar was only attached on one side. Repaired in field with heavy gauge baling wire and larger tapping bolts. IMHO, this is extremely unlikely to happen if you mostly stay on paved highways. If you want to get away from the crowd with your Micro Minnie and into the wilderness, it is a very real risk, so carry some bailing wire, tapping bolts, and a good jack with some blocks, so you can jack the trailer up at the frame rail. Certainly not unique to Winnebago. Look under any brand trailer and almost all of them are made the same way as far as tank mounting.

Short-term (overnight) Boondocking:
The 12v compressor fridge is going to use 600-700 Wh per day. So unless you have some way to replace that juice (like solar on the roof) or a big enough battery, you WILL run out of power overnight with a standard Micro Minnie. The supplied OEM Marine Deep Cycle is totally inadequate for anything other than going from one full hook up campground to the next. It can only give you about 600Wh from a full charge. Easiest answer is carry a generator or a portable powerstation. Long term answer is get some LFP batteries and at least 300w of rooftop solar. Extra portable solar is also a good idea.

Battery monitoring:
If you have a Victron smart shunt, the phone app is more than sufficient to keep track of power in and out of your battery. If you have one or more Victron solar charge controllers, they will “talk” with the shunt, but do not replace the functionality of the shunt on their own.

Fusing:
If there are fuses on a circuit, they are there for a reason. Never remove one. You do need a stout fuse between the main battery terminal and your main dc bus. A 250 amp ANL gets the job done. Most newer LFP batteries have internal fuses, but they are there only to protect the internal battery wiring. Similarly, inverters and inverter/chargers have built-in fuses to protect their internal circuitry only. If you connect ANYTHING. to your dc bus/circuit, it needs to have an appropriate sized fuse. This includes charge controllers, aux heating mats, dc outlets, etc. using a ST fuse block makes this easy. Also, if you connect any rooftop solar, there must be a fuse or breaker between the pv array and the charge controller. A manual reset breaker works well for this chore, and allows you to disconnect your solar panels from your electrical system by just pressing a button. Pv wires are always hot, so be careful when working with them. It’s always safest to disconnect the panels at the rooftop mc4 gland before working on your dc circuit until you install a manual reset breaker.

Adding Fresh Water and disposing of gray water:
Our solution is to carry a 27 gal tote, which is exactly the size of the gray tank. If we’re too far away from a dump site to tow the tote behind our truck, we put the tote in the truck bed and pump the gray water into it using a 12v transfer pump. Wash the pump innards well after transfer and don’t use it for fresh water. To replenish fresh water, when we go to empty the tote, we take along two empty 7gal Reliance jugs, and fill them with the nearest potable water source. After returning to the RV, we gravity feed the Reliance water into the fresh water fill by placing the jug on the galley counter and running an old cpap hose between jug and fresh water fill.

[OldSup]

Marine359- sorry to hear you have to get rid of your rig and hope all turns out for the better. I have read a whole lot of your posts on his forum the last couple years. I have seen where full fresh water tanks have come loose, and for the most part we don’t put much water on board since in most cases, it can be found near or at the camping spot. I have decided a tote will probably become a part of our camping next year. Black tank has never been an issue. As far as replacement battery is concerned, was thinking about 200ah in either AGM or even 2-6v golf cart batteries. Don’t really want to put a ton of $$ into it. I have 2 Champions 2500w dual fuel generators that I bought this year but never had the opportunity to put them to test.. that will change next year. I have a feeling a larger camper is in the future after next year.

[Marine359]

Good luck on your upgrade OldSup,
I’m one who would HIGHLY recommend against using FLA for your camper.
They weigh too much
You don’t save hardly any money
They require maintenance
They charge too slowly
They have a non-linear voltage discharge curve.

In todays world AGM costs more than LFP per Useable amp hour
With 2x 6v GC, by the time you pay core charge and buy a battery box big enough to accommodate them, you’ve spent just as much as the equivalent amount of LFP.
They wear out after a few years even if well cared for,
They can freeze in winter if not supplied with trickle charge
Don’t forget the cost of hernia surgery trying to lift them into and out of the battery box, that’s IF you can find a box that will fit the GC batteries in the tiny space between front of trailer and the propane tanks.
If you think you might switch campers, you can take your LFP with you and re-install the old FLA marine deep cycle battery.

Don’t know your budget, but you can get 150ah LFP for $360. Use your existing charger, and top off the LFP with a cheap portable solar panel. BTW, if you’ve got an 2022 or later model MM, you may have an WFCO programmable charger with LFP profile capability. Even if you can’t use its full capacity, much easier than FLA. If there’s a $100 price differential, you’ll loathe the day you decided to cheap out.

Don’t forget, for slightly more money, don’t forget the powerstation solution. Leave the camper as is. Plug in the powerstation, and take it with you to a new camper, or wherever you want it. Carry just one generator that way.

Like you, black water is never an issue. It fills in 7-8 days, but we hardly ever stay in one spot for more than 5 days. And we haven’t needed to run our generator since adding our powerstation. It gets left at home unless it’s really hot and we think we might need to run the A/C.

Tank mount may have failed with 1/2 tank of fresh water. It’s due to what you’re driving over, and the suspension, not so much weight in the tank.

Semper Fi,

[OldSup]

Marine359- correct correct correct. After posting I was checking into the GC batteries and no way would I go that way. Cost, weight and space make no sense. I think I can get an LFP in the basement without lengthening the cables. My mini is a 2022 with the WFCO adjustable charger. I just didn’t want to put several thousand into this if getting something bigger in the not too distant future.
Thanks for all your input !

Tim

[Marine359]

Good choice Tim,
Install should be easy. Before you start an install think about whether you need to heat it.
You can just bring it indoors in winter and not need a means of heating. But if you’ll want to use your 2108 in winter or shoulder season, you’ll need a way to heat it. Most LFP can be charged only above 32F. To be safe, use 40F. Most now also have BMS low temp charging protection, and low temp operating shutdown. You can spend a little more and get a battery with built-in heating. Cheaper route (I’m cheap) is spend $40 for a 12v thermostatic tank heating mat. It will come on and stay on until battery reaches 40F. Go to auto parts store and buy a lighted 12v switch for $6. Install it next to the battery so you can turn the mat on or off. Easy peasy. If it’s really cold, like below 20F, it may take an hour for the battery to reach its BMS temperature charging threshold. No worry about using the battery to run the heat pad. BMS should allow for output down to 0-20F. 200ah is ideal battery size for your 2108 if you’ve got some solar. Cheapest way to solar is install an SAE port on the sidewall. Then you can either get a 75/15 mppt charge controller, or go without charge controller and get a portable with a built in pwm controller. If kept in the sun, a 200w portable run through an mppt controller will produce 500-1,000 wh on a good day, which is enough to keep your 12v compressor fridge running. If you want to get real fancy, and have one too many beers, get an LFP with built-in Bluetooth. Then you’ll not need a shunt. Don’t forget to get a fuse sized for your battery cable size. Keep your Marine deep cycle and put it back in when you get a new trailer, and take your LFP with you.

[RocknRoll]

Marine359 hit on all points. I made the switch from 2 GC cells to LiFeP04 and its night and day. Not only will you save some major weight, but you can relocate it inside the passthrough. It's also safer than AGM or LA.

If you decide to upgrade, I recommend getting a smart battery with Bluetooth and one that has low temperature protection. SOC is instantly available so there's no need for a shunt, and you'll be able to switch charging/discharging via software (easily allows you to optimally store at 70%).

This one is $269 and has worked flawlessly. At this price, buy two.

https://www.amazon.com/Elefast-Bluet...d_i=B0C6ST32WC

[Camper1]

Thanks OldSup! Yes, these Micro's tow very nicely and being only 7' wide, they are easier to maneuver on the 'mostly terrible Forest Service & BLM roads.

Marine359, I'm also very sorry to hear you need to sell your 2108TB. I am sure we will all keep good thoughts for you, and are also happy you will stick around, continuing to offer your very valued knowledge to the forum members!

Speaking of knowledge, the 1st item I'm curious about is your field repair of your water tank. My 2021 TB has the Coroplast underbelly wrap, and the water tank is obviously on the other side. Did you have to cut yours out, in order to get to the area where you had to use bailing wire and the tapping bolts to secure the tank? I can maybe see using bailing wire around the frame that holds the tank in, but where would you use larger tapping bolts to help secure the tank? If you cut yours out, did you replace with new, or simply reuse/reattach the Coroplast to cover the tank again? I'm thinking one should be proactive and check the installation.


On the fact that I was told to remove the two added 40A fuses in the coach panel, before turning on and utilizing the 3,000W inverter, I'm not sure what to say. While I agree with you Marine359, that one should not have to remove fuses in order to operate the charging system for their coach, but unless I experiment with the 40A fuses in/out, I would need to get some expert help. I do have a 30A breaker wired into the system, right next to the MPPT 100 I 50 charge controller.


I love the ease of monitoring the charging system with the Victron smart phone app. It shows the battery voltage, temperature and highest/lowest/average of each cell. Even today in cloudy & rainy weather, I've yielded 120Wh!*


Thanks!!

[Marine359]

This field repair will only work if the tank has not fallen out completely, and one side of the angle iron support is still attached to the frame. You do not need to remove coroplast.

Empty the tank to reduce weight. Align the angle iron holes with the frame holes and insert bailing wire up from the bottom of one hole, then bend it over the top of the frame rail, then feed it down through the other frame hole and on through the angle iron. Your hands will get very tired and will ache. Use your truck jack and blocks securely. At the top of the jack, you’ll need a piece of wider metal or wood so the jack won’t slip off the frame rail. Position the top of jack on the angle iron slightly to the inside of the holes. Jack up the angle iron until it’s firmly against the frame. Twist the baling wire at least four turns. You’ll need heavy duty pliers to do this if your baling wire is heavy gauge. Hammer the twisted wire off to the side. Now using an impact driver, drive new tapping bolts up through the holes. When you go to the hardware store, buy several sizes of the bolts, so you’ll have one that’s not too small, and big enough that you can drive it through the holes with the bailing wire in there. The relative softness of the baling wire will give you a tight cinch of the bolts through the angle iron and into the frame. This is a temporary field fix, but it’s held up quite well.

Better permanent fix is buy a length of metal strut long enough to span length across the frame rails under the tank. Attach below the coroplast using U-bolts that will fit over the frame and through the holes of the strut below the frame. Attach using locking stainless washers and nuts. I suppose you could do this fix in the field, but might be much harder because you’d be jacking against a much more narrow cross member.

[Camper1]

I'll have to crawl under my coach and check out your instructions, after it stops raining of course.

Appreciate the details Jim!

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by Camper1

I'll have to crawl under my coach and check out your instructions, after it stops raining of course.

Appreciate the details Jim!

I should have taken pics. Will try to get to that.