What does this "blue wire" do or go to in my Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS)
The other month I was tightening the connections in my ATS-5070 and I saw some blue wires that are not on my ATS schematic. Can anyone tell me where these wires go to and what is their function?
Also, I need clarification on the type of power my Onan 7500 Quiet Diesel puts out? It it single phase or 2 phase or 3 phase 120V?
Can any offer-up a simple explanation on why what they mean by "Bonded" when it comes to preventing a "Hot Skin" condition. (Does this Blue wire have something to do with this? If so, where can I find the other end of this wire connected?)
No... I drew in the blue wire when it is connected to the "Do Not Remove Jumper" loops... which appears to be connected to the White Neutral wire.
So I would say the "Blue Wire" is connected to the White Neutral Wire, and only the White neutral wire. I.e., one blue wire is for when the generator is running and the other blue wire is when the shore power is connected.
This means each blue wire (connected to Neutral) functions a just 1 neutral connection, but I don't know where it goes?
Note: I think that center blue wire is not connected to anything... when shore power if the input power.
I know the blue wire does not go to my inverter or my power Man-panel, because I have looked inside these areas. So I am still stumped?
Also, I'm not sure I drew the "Main" arrow in the right direction. And the more I think about it, I think it makes more sense that the right side of the ATS5070 are all "IN" wires from various sources, and the left side if all "OUT" wires. ...but I'm just guessing. ...If this is correct, then I labeled the "load" in the picture incorrect? The schematic calls these 3-wires (R,W,B) "Main" but... what is "Main?" ...Is this a power input from my inverter? ...Or do these wires go to the Main Power Panel?
So I look forward to being schooled when it comes to how this ATS #5070 is wired.
Note: General conventions use blue wire in 3-phase circuits? Or in this case could Winnebago have run a blue wire to the dryer? ...That blue wire is so thick (heavy gauge) that it must either carry a lot of voltage or it runs a long distance or both.
A typical Winnebago 50A RV power service? What is correct?
When that schematic describes the "Load" side at the top, where does that go to?
IS IT LIKE THIS? (IDK... I'm just making an educated guess, but no where have I been able to find any thead that connects "everything" together. So now would be as good of a time as any. Right? ...So please edit if you know FOR SURE what the right power path is. That would be excellent, but no guessing!)
Here we go: From generator or 120v shore power... to the ATS...to the 50A Main Power Panel... which uses L1 to power the ACs...
...and then both L1 and L2 power is sent to a relay on the Intelletec EMS/PMS#610 board that monitors and "shreds (drops) power to appliances in a predetermined order; and then...
...separately uses one 30A Breaker "line out" to send L1 power to the Inverter (which has its own internal transfer relay inside) that acts as a "pass through" for 120V generator or shore power... and when neither is present... the Inverter kicks-in to to "apply" inverted Battery-to-120V power to L2 that loops back to the Intelletec PMS-620 for power management; and then connects to...
...the 30A Sub-Panel with breakers for the wall sockets...
...which as a GFI switch commonly found on the first wall socket in the bathroom.
Is this the crazy thinking or what? ...Hey, whatever works! ...After all, whatever they do has withstood the test of time!!!
I just want to know where the power is coming from and going to?
What about 12V? Does that 12V Power Panel get 12V directly from the Battery Disconnect Switch (aka BDS or Salesman Switch)... which is supplied by direct from the battery cable?
FYI, I have a Dimensions Inverter/Charger and there is NO CONVERTER inside! ...And there is NO CONVETER anywhere else in my coach. So I think all those 12V push-button-breakers gets power from the BDS. Is this correct?
What about those blue wires in the ATS-5070? What are they for?
I did some more digging on the internet and this is what I found:
L1 and L2 are rated at 35A, but when used in single phase applications (RV) that share a neutral wire, the ATS-5070 is now rated at 70A on the Neutral-Return side, BUT ONLY IF you use a jumper between Neutral and Aux at the Terminal Block.
This explains the jumper I clearly see, and the blue wire connected to AUX, and the SPDT "Neutral Relay" function that joins the blue with the white when the generator is running.
*** I think this summary also confirms there are 2 power lines "IN" to the ATS-5070 and 1 power line "OUT" to the load or "Control Panel" as it is labeled below.
==> So all those wires on the left of the switch go to the components hidden in the back of the box! Including the blue wires. (Case solved.) ...And those blue wires do not lead anywhere else in the RV.
So please disregard previous pictures and put these in your RV library with the attached .pdf Parallax 5070 Manual.
I also came across some information on how to repair your ATS-5070 and will post it in a few days. First I would like to better understand how the AST sends power to the Main Panel and what happens after that.
imnprsd "simple explanation on why what they mean by "Bonded" when it comes to preventing a "Hot Skin" condition". All metal on the coach is connected (bonded) to ground which is the green wire in the power cord which is connected to a grounding rod at the park service panel. This keeps the coach metal parts the same potential as earth ground.
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Grant & Pat
2014 Adventurer 35P
2021 Rapid Red 4dr Bronco OBX
So to be properly “grounded” your RV chassis must have its EGC wire properly “bonded” (connected) to the power company’s service panel “ground/neutral/earth” bonding point. And that bonding must provide an under-1-ohm connection for the neutral of the transformer on the power pole to return any fault currents back to whence they started (in the transformer).
Now it’s back to the math for Ohm’s Law. If you have a 1-ohm ground/bond path connecting to the service panel, then 120 volts divided by 1 ohm equals 120 amperes of current (120 volts / 1 ohm = 120 amps). That 120 amps of fault current will trip any 20-, 30- or 50-amp circuit breaker in your RV quickly, usually within a fraction of a second. And that’s what actually keeps you safe from a hot-skin/stray-voltage on your RV. The ground rod at the service panel or even your RV (if you add one yourself) doesn’t do this at all, as it’s only there for lightning protection.
The blue wires are earth ground conductors for the inverter and generator. Both of these devices are considered an independently derive electrical source. When either is used, the blue wire connects (bonds) the neutral conductor (white) to an earth ground reference. The shore power cord’s neutral bond is made at the main electrical panel in the campground. Without that bond conductor (jumper and blue conductor), the developed voltage in the inverter and generator would not be referenced to ground (0 volts).
JimP: Thank you! You summed everything up in one easy to understand paragraph!
Maybe you can explain this one to me:
Last summer my 7500 Onan Quiet Diesel generator was throwing a #46 fault code that Onan loosely describes as problem that can either be:
A) A bad 12V house battery source... that can flag a 46 fault code if you are trying to start the generator with low voltage.
Story: Last summer I found my RV batteries dead after a 9 month storage. So I proceeded to everything I can think of to get the engine started. Unsuccessful, I was able to get my generator started using my tow car as a jump. Okay... but then I think I made a mistake. I tried to jump my engine batteries off my very low/dead house batteries (that now acted like big resistors instead of power sources) and my generator died... when I turned the ignition key.
This is how I think I tripped my Onan 46 fault code, but I really do not know for sure. Maybe it happenned last season at some RV park with an "Open Neutral." IDK.
To say the least, I do not recommend anyone trying to jump your engine battery with the generator running, because I think you will have an unprotected circuit going direct to your Onan Inverter Board, but this is just a guess.
Later, I installed new house batteries, but I could not get rid of that 46 fault code and every time I cleared the code it would immediately come back.
B) I TOOK MY GENERATOR TO AN ONAN REPAIR SHOP AND THEY COULD NOT CLEAR THE 46 FAULT CODE. THEN THEY SAID:
* A bad inverter board cannot be repaired and that a new one would cost ~$2,000 plus labor to replace.
I also read blogs from owners who went this route, and all said it cured their #46 fault code problem.
In my case, my 7.5QD Inverter was working fine. It just had a 46 fault code I could not get rid of until...
...One day I was working on my RV with 50A service plugged-in. Then I started the Onan generator... so I could confirm with a multi-meter that my ATS was giving priority to my generator power... and it did.
...Then for some reason I decided to pull the shore power cord with the generator running and I was surprised the generator quit. Why do you suppose this is?
I then cleared the 46 fault code at my generator, and restarted the generator.
...Some 30 minutes later I decided to turn off the generator and clear the 46 fault code one more time. ...And what do you know? The 46 fault code did not come back!
HURRAY!!! ...I think I dodged another bullet, believing all along that if my Onan Inverter Board is functioning right, there was no way I was going to spend $2,600 to replace an Onan Inverter Board just because it was throwing an 46 fault code... with good, stable power inside the coach.
So now I believe the 46 fault code has something to do with the "bonding" the neutral wire to ground wire in my ATS-5070 transfer switch. What do you think?
...Or maybe this is a sign that ATS-5070 relay is sticking or is not making contact right?
People talk about filing down the contact points in their ATS, but I do not know if I can do this on my ATS-5070. Can I? ...Or can I just replace the relay?
I understand Parallax no longer sells this ATS which has performed flawlessly for 15+ years, so has anyone overhauled their ATS and has a list of parts and sources they can share? ...The information I have shared above is over 5 years old and it would be nice to have a more current parts list.
That generator fault code (46) is DC specific. I would think that it more likely would be a poor (resistive) DC connection or bad battery. I am not familiar with your ATS so I do not know how it switches the circuits, but I would expect that it does not switch negative or positive DC voltage.
The problem may have been a result of DC current across a bad connection making it worse. I know that fault codes can be reset by removing DC voltage to the generator for a period of time. The generator uses the DC voltage to power the starter and its inverter printed circuit board.
Sorry that I really have no good answer to your problem.
In another thread about Inverter Power and RV Power Grids I found this complete description that shows how all your 2004-2009 vintage power and sub-systems talk to one another.
Note: These configurations and methodology may apply to other RVs with 50A service, but the components maybe different.
Notice the EMS-620 system only sheds 3 loads:
* Water Heater
* Refrigerator
* Vacuum
...And power flows from the ATS to the Main Power Panel... then to the Inverter... then to the Inverter Sub-main Power Panel.
...Also my 2004 Itasca Main Power Panel is built with "alternating" Circuit #1 (L1) and Circuit #2 (L2) power connections vs. other RV brands that may put all L1 loads on the left and all L2 loads on the right.
My point is that all loads on the same circuit are summed together and cannot exceed their rated circuit breaker limits or you will "pop a breaker."
Side Tip: If you find your Basement AC is popping breakers then you need to take immediate action and check the values of your Run and Start Capacitors. This is easy to do with the right multi-meter and is inexpensive to service. For more information about your Basement AC you can refer to this thread:
Linear Mode
