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Old 11-24-2020, 01:15 AM   #1
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Coleman 2-Ton Basement AC Hard Start Capacitor Upgrade

I have been researching this subject and found bits and pieces on why anyone/everyone should be adding a hard start capacitor to the Coleman Mach 2-ton Basement AC compressor capacitor, but I need someone to verify and/or correct the following conclusions I have arrived at:

IS IT TRUE....

* Compressors age and if you find you are popping circuit breakers when you turn on your AC then you might be able to fix this problem by adding a hard start capacitor to help your compressor start-up.

* Adding a Hard Start Capacitor Kit is a good idea, and if you do this upgrade before you start popping circuit breakers, you will likely extend the life of your compressor? True?

==> What I am not sure about is if the OEM Coleman Mach comes with a 5-2-1 Hard Start Capacitor or not? Does it?

* Apparently, you have two choices of hard start capacitors to choose from:

A) The SPP6 type has a relay built in and is cheaper, but it requires time to cool down between compressor starts. So if you operate your AC in 100F+ your compressor may not restart when the thermostat calls. (Typical price is ~$20.)

B) The 5-2-1 Hard Start Devices are more reliable and more expensive, but are not affected by outside temperature. (Typical price is ~$36.) So if you use your RV-AC in 100F+ temperatures this is the type you should use.

OTHER COMMENTS

* You do not add a hard start to the fan motor. The hard start capacitor is only used on the compressor side. Is this correct?

* My Coleman 2-ton basement AC came with two 35uF Fan capacitors, but a lot of people replace these with 45uF capacitors +/- 5%. Is this a good idea? Does it help the fan to start with more microfarads?

* I understand low shore power voltage is a major reason people burn out their Fan Capacitors. True? If so, they say using an AutoFormer to true-up the low voltage will prevent premature fan capacitor failure, but since these capacitors are relatively cheap, I recommend just replacing them every 5 years vs. paying a lot of money for a Hughes AutoFormer. (What is your opinion?)

* The #1 Compressor works harder than #2 compressor. True?

Here is a 5-2-1 hard start capacitor on Amazon with more information on why you should add one of these to your AC system even when it is working great!

https://www.amazon.com/Start-Capacit...199797&sr=8-58

Note: If you go with a 5-2-1 type hard start cap you have to mount the relay with the mounting hole on top, because it is gravity dependent. (I will not explain why, but you can google it.)

=== How To Replace Your Basement AC Circuit Board ===

See video from AZ-Expert:

...Warning: Tha AZ-Expert makes it look crazy complicated, but apparently he knows the wire colors by heart. I know I would not want to replace the AC board myself, but I can handle replacing capacitors.

REFERENCES

Video #2:

General AC Parts Video #3:
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:00 AM   #2
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Here is what I know and some what I think I know .

The Coleman has two compressors as you note. #1 starts first and after a while if that isn't enough after a few minutes the second compressor starts to help out. So yes #1 does most of the work.

I really don't think adding a soft start capacitor helps with compressor life. Hot windings are what kills compressor motors and at start they should be cool. Repeated starting will kill them whether they have a soft start capacitor added or not.

It really doesn't matter if the capacitor is 35 or 45 mfd. These are not considered soft start capacitors. Soft start capacitors have a relay that cuts the extra capacitor out of the circuit when the compressor is running.

If your breaker is tripping at start perhaps the wire to the compressor motor has a bad connection and causes a slow start and the compressor pulls more current. Or the breaker is weak.

But installing either soft start capacitor can't hurt and is easy to do.

There is another type of soft start capacitor system that is designed for roof top units, may not work with the larger Coleman unit, and has a microprocessor to control it and reduces starting current even more. But it is lots more expensive.

David
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:31 PM   #3
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I see some of the Fan Capacitors have a "soft start relay" on top, and made of plastic.

Why are there 3 Fan Capacitors in the picture below? How many fan motors are in my basement AC?

I also see the larger Compressor Capacitors are encased in metal and some owners use 35uF while others use 45uF. Is this based on availability?

I know our basement ACs have 2 compressors. So do I need 2 hard start caps or will 1 Hard Start Cap service both compressors since they start up one at a time? ...And this will be more obvious when I look at a wire schematic I don't yet have, but it included in the hard start kit?

Note: The picture below is from my 6535 model manual.

==> I also never read about anyone needing to recharge their basement AC with R22. Why? ...Is this because no one has R22 any more or is it because these basement ACs typically don't leak refrigerant?
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:33 PM   #4
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Separate capacitors.

David
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Old 11-28-2020, 10:13 PM   #5
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DavidM: I don't follow. Can you elaborate?

Are you saying you it would be a good idea to add one Hard Start Cap to each 45uF Compressor Cap?

And who can tell me more about that Fan Motor Caps in the picture above?

* Why are there 2 "Start Capacitors" in the picture and 1 "Fan Run Capacitor"?
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Old 11-30-2020, 07:36 PM   #6
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Still trying to figure out the capacitor diagram above.

Is this correct?

Your Colman-Mach Basement AC has:

* One one single phase (AC-DC) motor; and to get the motor turning in the right direction you need a fan start capacitor to "give it a kick."


* And each of the 2 Compressors; requires one START capacitor and one RUN capacitor.

So there are 2 smaller compressor run caps strapped together with the single fan cap in the picture above; and the 2 larger (35uF or 45uF) run caps are strapped together on the right side of the picture.

==> I also presume those are relays on top of those 2 smaller compressor START caps are used to disconnect the capacitor after the compressor starts.

==> Further these relays tend to melt down, over time, when you are connected to a low voltage shore power source (less than 110V for example) and your compressors are constantly kicking in-and-out as temperature is controlled by the thermostat. (...But mostly are always "on" in an RV since the compressors are almost always working on a hot day.)


MORE ABOUT COMPRESSOR CAPACITORS & ADDING A HARD START KIT

As mentioned, the 2 Compressor Run Capacitors are larger in size vs. the Compressor Start Capacitors .

The Compressor Run Caps are typically 35uF, but when they get replaced many owners choose to install 45uF caps +/- 5%, because a little extra capacitance will not hurt and may even help.

Then as the compressor wears, some owners will install a Compressor Hard Start Kit. This is sometimes the first fix owners try when the basement AC pops a fuse when trying to start and run the compressor. ...But other owners also report: It's a good idea to install a hard start kit as soon as possible to extend the life of the compressor, because the hard start kit helps the compressor run cap function more effectively.

What I'm unclear about, if everything I said above is true, if you use a hard start kit to assist the compressor RUN capacitor only; do you need a hard start kit for each compressor or will 1 hard start cap (added to the circuit) work for both compressor #1 and compressor #2, since each compressor starts separately and 10+ seconds apart?
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:02 PM   #7
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If you replace the OEM Start Capacitors which came from the factory with an A1 Components WSX-5ACM Hard Start Devices already on them with an aftermarket capacitor yes you should be sure to replace the original hard start device as the OEM Start Capacitor and WSX-5ACM Hard Start Device should be both be replaced as a set regardless of which one has failed however you should also correct the most common root cause of the start capacitor/hard start device failures which is low voltage at the the campground shore power plug.

A voltage correction transformer such as the Hughes Autoformer is one of the best long term remediation's you can add to your coach because it not only addresses start capacitor failure on your Air Conditioning Compressors but premature failure of all other 120 volt electrical components in your coach.

Since I added the Hughes Autoformer to my coach over 10 years ago I have not had another Air Conditioner Start Device or any other 120 volt component fail.

Fix the root cause of the problem at the source which is low voltage and you won't have to go around re-engineering every component in your coach to make it more resistant to low voltage damage since eventually the repeated low voltage damage is still going to accrue and cause the aftermarket parts to also fail.
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Old 12-02-2020, 08:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
Still trying to figure out the capacitor diagram above.

Is this correct?

Your Colman-Mach Basement AC has:

* One one single phase (AC-DC) motor; and to get the motor turning in the right direction you need a fan start capacitor to "give it a kick."


* And each of the 2 Compressors; requires one START capacitor and one RUN capacitor.

So there are 2 smaller compressor run caps strapped together with the single fan cap in the picture above; and the 2 larger (35uF or 45uF) run caps are strapped together on the right side of the picture.

==> I also presume those are relays on top of those 2 smaller compressor START caps are used to disconnect the capacitor after the compressor starts.

==> Further these relays tend to melt down, over time, when you are connected to a low voltage shore power source (less than 110V for example) and your compressors are constantly kicking in-and-out as temperature is controlled by the thermostat. (...But mostly are always "on" in an RV since the compressors are almost always working on a hot day.)


MORE ABOUT COMPRESSOR CAPACITORS & ADDING A HARD START KIT

As mentioned, the 2 Compressor Run Capacitors are larger in size vs. the Compressor Start Capacitors .

The Compressor Run Caps are typically 35uF, but when they get replaced many owners choose to install 45uF caps +/- 5%, because a little extra capacitance will not hurt and may even help.

Then as the compressor wears, some owners will install a Compressor Hard Start Kit. This is sometimes the first fix owners try when the basement AC pops a fuse when trying to start and run the compressor. ...But other owners also report: It's a good idea to install a hard start kit as soon as possible to extend the life of the compressor, because the hard start kit helps the compressor run cap function more effectively.

What I'm unclear about, if everything I said above is true, if you use a hard start kit to assist the compressor RUN capacitor only; do you need a hard start kit for each compressor or will 1 hard start cap (added to the circuit) work for both compressor #1 and compressor #2, since each compressor starts separately and 10+ seconds apart?
The 2 compressors are separate systems. Each compressor had its own start and run capacitor. I don't know why you would want to change to a different hard start kit the compressors have the one designed for it already installed. The black plastic capacitors are start capacitors and the things on top are the relays that take the start capacitors out of the circuit. Start capacitors can only be in the circuit on start up. If they stay in the circuit they will be destroyed. I looked at those hard start kits people have mentioned and they are not intended for 120 volt compressors. They are designed for Residential A/C unit which are 230 volt. Several people have said the run capacitors can be 35 or 45 micro farads this is not true they are designed for the size they come with it can be varied 10 percent but if the unit is designed for 35 MFDs 45 would be too much. The voltage can be higher a 370 VAC can be replaced with a 440VAC but you cannot go under 370 volt.
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:14 PM   #9
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Heating Man: Your name alone says you really must know your stuff and thanks for sharing your expertise us who just want to "do right" by our RVs...

Our RV Mach basement ACs are 120V as you point out and are rated at 2-tons; so do they make a 5-2-1 for a 120V application like ours?

And if not, can you harm a 120V AC compressor by adding a 5-2-1 Hard Start Kit meant for a 230V house AC? ...Does is matter from a capacitor point of view?

More important, in your opinion, will adding a hard start capacitor in parallel with the compressor run capacitor -- extend the life of the RV compressor just like a 5-2-1 will benefit a 230V compressor system?


...I would prefer they call it a "Compressor Run Boost Capacitor Kit" or words to that effect.

...I would prefer they call it a "compressor BOOST capacitor".

Also, in your opinion, do you think the compressor benefits from a little more capacitance? I mean, a lot of people replace their 35uF caps (+/- 10%) with 45uF (+/- 5%) caps when they need changing. Why is that? ...What I have read is that it's much more important that the capacitors are MATCHED and the value is not critical. I.e., +/- 5% is more important than +/- 10%. Is this true?

...Again, I'm not advocating for either value. I'm just trying to sort out theory from good application techniques. I mean, the AC manufacture does not build their system with a 5-2-1 in it; so why should we accept a 35uF is better to use just because the AC came with two 35uF compressor run capacitors?

Moreover, they call it a "Hard Start Kit," but you add this capacitor (and relay) in parallel with the compressor RUN capacitor. That's what make the name sound so confusing.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:03 AM   #10
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Again the root cause of most of the issues with Air Conditioning Hard Start units and Start Capacitors failing along with compressor failures in RV's is not usually the type of Hard Start Device and Capacitor installed at the factory but Low Voltage. We can waltz around that by trying to install beefier hard starts kits however the real fix is Voltage Correction. Most people have suffered from low voltage damage and don't even realize it just attributing the failures they experience to poor OEM designs.

I was head of maintenance (electrical, mechanical and HVAC) for a millworks company with 4 facilities a door/window factory, office partition factory, custom wood/millworks factory and lumber yard where it went without question that a voltage correction transformer had to be installed for each main service feed and at times at each major remote power panel to mitigate premature failure of electrical devices.

Low voltage is a major problem at most campgrounds be it due to internal issues with marginal electrical wiring and switch gear or inadequacies with the local power companies grid. The best way to deal with damage caused by extended brownouts regardless of whether they result from inside or outside the campgrounds electrical system is with some form of voltage correction transformer such as the Hughes AutoFormer or similar device.
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Old 12-03-2020, 02:34 PM   #11
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This may be a tad off topic .
Reading all the various articles on capacitors . And information printed on them . One recent mention is that company's are now stating 370 / 440 volt on them .
Now here is what i heard from a fellow who's history is rebuilding electric motors .
Contrary to what I know about a run cap .
Lets say it requires a 12.5 MFD , if one used a lower 10MFD it would benefit an older motor by not taxing it !
Lets hear opinions on this phenomenon
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Old 12-03-2020, 04:10 PM   #12
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Trying To Stay On-Track

Heating Man is saying, if I understand correctly, that:

* 5-2-1 Hard Start Capacitors are meant to be used in 230V house AC applications... implying it would be a mistake to use it in a 120V RV basement AC application.


==> I am questioning why it matters from a capacitor point of view?

As pointed out, a "beefier" capacitor is rated at 440V vs 370V so why does it matter if you use a Hard Start Cap (5-2-1) in a 120V application? ...Especially when the manufacture of the Hard Start Kit says it will work for 1-ton to 5-ton capacity compressors?

Heating man is saying:

* You should use the same run capacitor as called out by the compressor. In this case my stock cap value was 35uF (+/-10%).


==> But I know many owners are using 45uF (+/-5%) when they replace the compressor run caps... as did I.

==> I also read that matching capacitor values is more important. So that would imply selecting a 35uF or 45uF capacitor is ok, but what you really want to look for is the +/- 5% tollerance. I.e., avoid the +/-10% capacitors if you have a choice.

I'm not the expert here. In fact, I'm trying to learn from the Pros. But it still sounds to me, if you want to extend the life of your 120V Basement AC Compressor, you should add a 5-2-1 Hard Start Kit which is a "boost" capacitor and relay you connect in parallel with your compressor RUN capacitors.

However, if you Pros say otherwise, please let us know this is not a good idea if you know for sure.

As for low voltage, everyone agrees that will fry/damage compressor START capacitor relays over time. ...And to correct for this condition, some owners buy a Hughes Autoformer for about $550.

https://www.amazon.com/Hughes-Autofo...7032224&sr=8-3

However, before I spend $550 I would have to know the park or parks I like to stay in have poor shore power. And apparently a lot do, but I have not experienced this because I am always "on the road" and or stay for months in a park with good shore power voltage. Consequently, I would rather replace my compressor START capacitors (and relays) at $15 each every 5-10 years, which for my needs and budget seems like a better way to go.

So to keep this thread "on track" the simple questions are:

* Is it a good idea to add a 5-2-1 Hard Start Kit or SPP6 capacitor to our 120V Colman-Mach (2-ton) Basement AC Compressor?

* When was the last time you checked your AC capacitor values?
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Old 12-06-2020, 12:09 AM   #13
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I found this posted elsewhere in this forum that offers some additional information:

Coleman made at least 3 models of this that went into RV's. Each has different compressor/motor manufacturers, each needs different size run capacitors on the compressor.

The Tecumseh compressor uses a 30uF run capacitor, and the Panasonic compressor uses 45uF capacitors.

I checked my 2004 Itasca Horizon and found my Coleman-Mach Model number is: 6535-671. I then went to the Air Excel website to download a parts manual and wire schematic. And there it confirmed all the part numbers I would look for when the time comes to service my AC.

I recommend you keep this website (aka Document Library) so you can look up your Coleman-Mach model number to be sure you order the right parts for your AC as well: https://www.airxcel.com/rv/coleman-m...cument-library

Consequently, it does not seem to matter if the start or run capacitor values are the same tolerance or not, because each capacitor is functioning separately to both START and RUN the #1 or #2 compressor. So this is a correction to what I wrote earlier. (Sorry about that.)

Heating Man is right about using the right size compactor for the motor and/or compressor type, but I'm still interested to know:

* Is it a good idea to add a 5-2-1 Hard Start Kit or SPP6 Hard Start Kit/capacitor to our 120V Colman-Mach (2-ton) Basement AC Compressor?

* And I presume if adding a Hard Start Kit is a good idea, then I would like to verify you should order 2... one for each compressor?


Below is a picture of my #6535-671 wire diagram(s). The bottom one is just a little larger and I have included it if anyone wants to add some component labels since I don't want to make a mistake editing it myself. (Thanks!)
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Old 12-06-2020, 08:24 PM   #14
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An RV is more than just Air Conditioner Start Capacitors so just replacing them and the solid state devices as long term low voltage damage takes it toll does not address the control modules, chargers, transfer switches, televisions, microwaves, etc, etc that also die prematurely from low voltage issues nor does it address the incremental damage to the compressors. Unless you only stay at modern resorts then likely you will regularly be experiencing low voltage situations that while they may not be low enough to trigger your surge protectors low voltage shut down circuit will be low enough to heat up circuitry and lead to early failures. Even if voltage looks good when you first plug in unless you put a recorder on that logs voltage drops and their duration you really can't guarantee constant good voltage and thats even in your sticks and bricks home. Turn on the low voltage alarm in you home computers Uninterruptible Power Supply and you may be surprised or shocked at how often you may hear it sounding an alert. At my home its switching to battery backup several times a day due to rolling brownouts from the local utility company.

The reactive method is to constantly pay out to repair items as they die prematurely from low voltage while the proactive thing to do is eliminate the Root Cause and put in a voltage correction device.

In the factory environment this saved us many thousands of dollars in repairs and lost production since equipment then failed far less often. After I installed the voltage correction device in my coach similarly the component the failure rate has dropped dramatically so that the AutoFormer has more than payed for itself many times over the past 15 years. I can honestly say I have not had to replace a single 120 volt device due to failure since installing the AutoFormer where as before that the start devices would turn white from low voltage damage and required replacing on the 1st compressor way too often. Its not unusual to see it in boost mode much of the day here in the Deep South especially during times of peak electrical demand.
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Old 12-07-2020, 07:12 PM   #15
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Yes and thanks NielV for your added comments on "low voltage" issues.

I understand the Hughes AutoFormer is worthwhile when you know your park has low voltage and maybe even when you don't. I also take your point that park voltage can vary with the number of campers and the weather. I.e., when everyone is running their air conditioner.

But I still would like to know:

* Is it a good idea to add a 5-2-1 Hard Start Kit or SPP6 Hard Start Kit/capacitor to our 120V Colman-Mach (2-ton) Basement AC Compressor? I.e., will this extend the life of your compressor?

* And I presume if adding a Hard Start Kit is a good idea, then I would like to verify you/we need to order 2 kits... one for each compressor?


* I'm not sure how to wire it, but I understand the instruction provided in the kit are clear. However, if someone wants to edit the schematic picture above and show us how a hard-start kit is wired, that would be very beneficial to me and others who may consider doing this.

* I'm also wondering if Panasonic compressors tend to last longer then the Tecumseh compressors or if it's the other way around?
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
I found this posted elsewhere in this forum that offers some additional information:

Coleman made at least 3 models of this that went into RV's. Each has different compressor/motor manufacturers, each needs different size run capacitors on the compressor.

The Tecumseh compressor uses a 30uF run capacitor, and the Panasonic compressor uses 45uF capacitors.

I checked my 2004 Itasca Horizon and found my Coleman-Mach Model number is: 6535-671. I then went to the Air Excel website to download a parts manual and wire schematic. And there it confirmed all the part numbers I would look for when the time comes to service my AC.

I recommend you keep this website (aka Document Library) so you can look up your Coleman-Mach model number to be sure you order the right parts for your AC as well: https://www.airxcel.com/rv/coleman-m...cument-library

Consequently, it does not seem to matter if the start or run capacitor values are the same tolerance or not, because each capacitor is functioning separately to both START and RUN the #1 or #2 compressor. So this is a correction to what I wrote earlier. (Sorry about that.)

Heating Man is right about using the right size compactor for the motor and/or compressor type, but I'm still interested to know:

* Is it a good idea to add a 5-2-1 Hard Start Kit or SPP6 Hard Start Kit/capacitor to our 120V Colman-Mach (2-ton) Basement AC Compressor?

* And I presume if adding a Hard Start Kit is a good idea, then I would like to verify you should order 2... one for each compressor?


Below is a picture of my #6535-671 wire diagram(s). The bottom one is just a little larger and I have included it if anyone wants to add some component labels since I don't want to make a mistake editing it myself. (Thanks!)
I also have the RVO , Rv Products repair part list printed
You mention Tecumsch and Panasonic compressors
In my 05 Journey . The A/C model is 6537- 671 .
The compressors in it are Matsushita Electric Co , 2P17S126B .
They also use a 45 Cap
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Old 12-10-2020, 11:23 PM   #17
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So now we know there are at least 3 different compressors used in these Coleman-Mach Basement ACs, and it stands to reason that we should follow Heating Man's advice and use the right size capacitor specified to be used with the compressor installed.

However, this still leaves us with these questions:

* Is it a good idea to add a 5-2-1 Hard Start Kit or SPP6 Hard Start Kit/capacitor to our 120V Colman-Mach (2-ton) Basement AC Compressor?

* And I presume if adding a Hard Start Kit is a good idea, then I would like to verify you should order 2... one for each compressor?


* And it sounds like using the 5-2-1 (with the separate relay that is not temperature dependent) is a better choice over the SPP6 hard start type if you are running your AC in 100F+ weather. Right or wrong?

I found this explanation when looking into hard start kits for home air compressors, and since our basement AC is a 2-ton unit, not that big, but not that small either, it still sounds like adding a hard start kit to each compressor is a good idea.... but I would like someone with real heating and cooling experience to verify this:
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Old 12-11-2020, 12:47 AM   #18
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This company has some tips and warnings about using standard hard start kits in your RV when these universal hard start kits are made for house air conditioners.

The warning seems to apply to less than 15,000BTU RV-ACs... like those mounted on the roof. ...But our 2-Ton (24,000BTU) basement AC might be an exception. Maybe not?

You can read more about it here:

Hard Start Kit RV Air

And in this article they raise the subject of a

This thread by Journey Cat provides us with an excellent summary of how to overhaul a Colman-Mach #6537 AC:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...-a-359477.html

...And I see that he installed an AirXcel Hard Start Kit 8333A9021.

Journey Cat: Did you use one or two of these AirXcel capacitors?

...And I found this reference that describes the AirXcel capacitor for use in RV roof top ACs, but they also show it is for use in all the 65XX model basement ACs too. So maybe this is why some people refer to this upgrade as a "Soft Start Kit?" (IDK. I'm just looking for more information and if I need to buy one or two of these things?)

The diagram below is for the AirXcel Hard Start Kit, but it is primarily for a single compressor used on most RV roof tops.

So, how do you install 1 or 2 of these things in our Coleman Basement ACs? ...Do you just connect it in parallel with the run capacitor to the compressor motor... and that's it? ...Do I need 2 of these things since there are 2 compressors in the Coleman basement AC?

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Colem...-p/48-1759.htm
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Old 12-11-2020, 02:53 AM   #19
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Continued -- Kicking The Tires

Maybe I have been kicking the tires on this subject for too long? (Don't answer that. I'm trying to figure this out and I need some help. But hopefully all this will be over soon!)

TO CONTIUE:

In RV BASEMENT ACs like the Coleman Mach 2-Ton 65xx series... could it be our systems already came with a relay and start capacitor?

Answer: Yes they do.

Therefore, all this talk about installing a hard start kit seems to be a reference to:

A) Upgrading your start capacitor in a basement AC; or...

B) Adding a start capacitor with a PTC relay that did not come with a (Positive Temperature Coefficient ) Thermistor.

Here's a video on how the relay drops the start capacitor out of the circuit just after the compressor starts up. And this one is most similar to our basement ACs:



In roof top AC, there are tons of videos on how and why people have gone to a Hard Start Kit. But this one explains how these PTC relays work (aka PTC start assist):




=== Coleman Mach #6535-671 Diagram ===


In the diagram below, I traced the wires to my Coleman Mach #6535-671. This is the same schematic as posted above; and I would think this diagram should be applicable to the 6537-671 type ACs too.

...The only obvious difference in these models is where Coleman has mounted the electrical box and maybe they used different compressors and or bearings? I am not sure.

...But, as you can see by looking at the pictures below, my 6535-471 electrical box is on the side with easy access to my capacitors; and from the pictures Journey Cat posted in his thread on how to overhaul these things (thank you very much) his 6537-471 electrical box is on top.

Anyway, I now understand not all roof top AC come with a start capacitor. I think this is correct? ...And so, many owners have gone to "Hard Start Kit" for their roof top ACs to help start the compressor... so the RUN capacitor does not have to do all the work. (I may still be mixed up on this point.)

That said, our (2-ton) basement AC have bigger compressors (vs. roof top AC) and our basement ACs come with a start capacitor already.

* However, if you check the parts list in the attached .pdf Coleman or AirXcel do not specify the values or type of START CAPACITOR (or it's relay) used. So what it the right and best REPLACEMENT PART to use?

The only authority on this subject I know on this subject is AirXcel who sells a Hard Start Kit (Part# 8333A9021) they say can be used on both rooftop and basement ACs.

Okay, I by that, but I would like to know if there is a better solution since it would appear you have to buy 2 of these... when maybe a dual capacitor will work better?
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File Type: pdf 1_2004 AC Diagram & Parts List For 2004 Itasca 40AD.pdf (635.9 KB, 2 views)
File Type: pdf 1_Coleman Basement AC Wiring DIagram 6535-671.pdf (228.8 KB, 1 views)
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Old 12-11-2020, 01:48 PM   #20
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Update & Correction:

I found the Coleman 6535-671 Start Capacitor (for the compressor) in the parts list. It is listed as an AirXcel Part# 8333A9021, and this is the same Start Capacitor as Journey Cat listed in his thread on how to overhaul a 6537-671 basement AC.

What I meant to say is that I did not find the micro-farad rating for this start capacitor in the parts list? So if anyone knows it, please let us know.

Moreover, when you look at the AirXcel Part# 8333A9021 data sheet it describes this part as a Hard Start Capacitor. So now I can clear these things up...

* Our 2-ton Basement ACs come with a Hard Start Capacitor from the factory.

* Amazon is out of stock on these things, but I found one on Ebay for $24 each (includes shipping) and you need 2. Copy or click here ==> https://www.ebay.com/p/1522192524

Here's a summary of what I learned by researching this subject:

* If you have a roof top AC that does NOT have a Hard Start Kit installed, then you might consider adding one to extend the life of your compressor. Just be sure to get one for a 1-ton AC. Note: The AirXcel Part# 8333A9021 may also be a good choice, but a number of other people have used other types.

* If you have a 2-ton 65xx basement AC your system, then you already have a hard start kit installed; ...and as long as your capacitor values check out; and you don't have any burns marks then you do not need to replace these. Note: Low shore power voltage is what causes these capacitors to burn and fail prematurely.

* Your basement AC has 2 switching relays ($22ea) ...one for each compressor... and these relays can wear out. These things can also fail by welding the contact points shut inside; and when that happens your compressor start windings can fail.

This is very bad! ...And replacing a compressor is time consuming and expensive. So I think it makes sense to replace these relays every 8-10 years. (My relay part number is: 1460-1131. (Buy 2.)

Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coleman-Com...QAAOSwmLlX~P9P

* The circuit board can also go bad. FYI, they make a newer style board that has eliminated most of the capacitors that may go bad over time. However, when you do a PM on your Basement AC you really just need to verify your capacitors are with in tolerance; and as mentioned above, I would replace the relays if they are 10+ years old.

==> If you have used a different Hard Start Capacitor... other than the AirXcel Part# 8333A9021 Hard Start Capacitor... please let us know what type and how long you have been running it? Otherwise, going with what Heating Man implied/recommended: You need to stick with the right capacitor(s) for the type of compressor you are using.

==> Now if your compressor is popping circuit breakers when it comes on, then you might want to try a stronger Hard Start Kit. The problem as I see it, is that it's hard to know which one of these kits is best for your RV basement compressor or rooftop AC?

==> If you have overhauled or fixed your basement AC, and elected to use some other brand of Hard Start Kit, please tell us what type of Hard Start Kit you used? For example, was it a SPP6 type or a 5-2-1 or 3-in-1 kit... and if you have any tips for those of use who have never serviced our air conditioning units in over 10 years?
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