HWH jack system broken

[turbo ted]

Hi - New to the forum. I have a 2004 Adventurer. My HWS jack/slide system won't work with ignition switch in acc position. When I push the up arrow, I hear a click, but pump doesn't run. So - click is the valve actuating, but no pump. If ignition is in run position, same thing. If I start the engine, jacks and slides work as they should. The park/brake light on the control panel never comes on now. I never operate the jacks unless parking brake is on, in case the light is just out. I can operate jacks/slides with ignition in acc, if my wife pushes the button while I short across the solenoid on the pump motor. So pump is ok. I got home this way before I realized that everything would work with engine running. Dealer replaced the control pad recently and everything worked until now. Thought maybe bad ground, so I clamped a big wire from hydraulic manifold to a clean ground. No change. Has anyone had such a problem? I tried to email tech at HWH, but they don't answer. Maybe because of COVID-19.

[imnprsd]

Did you check the fuses to your HWH? I'm guessing they are okay, but you have two I think. Maybe the one you are using to jump is hot and the other is not?

Next, I would go to the HWH website and find your HWH electrical schematic. (They have everything on-line, but it's a huge sea. So use deductive reasoning to find your schematic.)

Then find out if you have a relay that your ignition switch talks to. I have one under my dash, but I have a DP. Your system maybe similar. See picture below and insert a good Bosh relay and see what happens? (Curtesy of another member I poached off another thread.)

What HWH system do you have?

How many slides?

I think your gas-chassis HWH system is similar to my diesel-freightliner setup. Only my jack cylinders will be heavier-duty. The pump may be the same. If so, this post may be of help:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...on-358321.html

Good luck!

PS
Please explain how you jump-started your solenoids in more detail. That maybe interesting for us to better understand.

[turbo ted]

It's a model 325. I have 2 slides. Since it won't work with ignition switch at acc, I'll go out and try jiggling the ignition switch and see if it's the ignition switch that I need to replace. Don't know what accessories will work in the acc position. I could check that way, too, maybe defrost fans. I noticed 2 or 3 fuses behind the plexiglass window into the control box, down by the pump motor. When I shorted across the solenoid, I just wanted to eliminate the possibility of a bad pump motor. So, I took a screwdriver and shorted across both large terminals on the pump motor solenoid. The pump works fine. I checked for juice going into the solenoid, to activate it. There is no juice going to the solenoid, so the problem is between the control pad and the solenoid. What I don't get is that when I push the "on: button on the control panel, the "on" light lights up. And I can hear the hydraulic valves click, but the pump motor doesn't come on. And the "not in park/brake" light has always come on when my emergency brake is not on, but now it never comes on. I'll try to get the plexiglass cover off and check the fuses today, and play with the ignition switch, but I don't understand why the unit won't work in the run position, either.

[Mongobird]

For what it's worth, I got in the queue at HWH with a question on my jacks. I bought a 2004 Itasca Meridian back in mid-August. After trying some time to try to resolve my issues I called the tech support number on August 25th. I have called back several times, and have been told that I am in the queue, and they will get back to me when they can. They acknowledged the long wait.

[imnprsd]

Here's a link on how to replace your key cylinder if it looks like mine:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/why...ch-421913.html

Question: If you hear your solenoid engage, but there is not enough current to for the pump to run, maybe it could be a dirty or bad fuse; or as you are thinking a bad switch (ignition or relay) somewhere else?

Is there any slop in you ignition key cylinder?

Alternatively, maybe your HWH control board switch is bad? I had one of these go out. If this is your problem you just need to call HWH and get an RMA number before you ship it to them. Their TAT is pretty good. Only 2 weeks in my case last year. However, these days who knows.

Note: Those HWH flat panel buttons are switches to ground and if they are only making partial contact that may be where your weak ground contact lies. If you can get to the back of the HWH button that is giving you trouble, like mine did, you can use a voltage circuit probe and connect the clamp to ground and then probe behind the switch in order to make a ground connection. ...And if this activates your system properly, I think it's safe to assume the problem is your circuit board switch.

Note: It's not uncommon for HWH to take their time getting back to people on general service questions, but if you need a RMA that's a different department. I have been to HWH twice I have always been very impressed with their customer service once your number comes up in the queue, and don't forget they do not charge for their free advice!

Good luck and please keep me posted on how you fix your 325 HWH System, which is the same as my HWH system in my DP with 3 slides.

Dumb question: I assume you have enough fluid in your reservoir? To check the level you need may need to put one of your slides out? I can't tell you, but every coach model has their own slide out configuration you need to use before you check for Dexron III fluid height.

For example: In my 2004 Horizon (DP with 3 slides) I am only supposed to extend the passenger slide and then I can check my reservoir level.

[turbo ted]

I'll check my fluid level again. If low, I should hear the pump run, but it will have a different sound, and not operate the jacks. I played with the ignition switch. Found that acc position allows the defrost fans to operate, then shut off when not in the acc position, so - if acc position works for other goodies, it should also work for the jack system. Back to the fuses. I need to take care of a broken clothes dryer today, so later. Thanks so much for you advice.

[BobC]

Your best (and quickest) path to resolving your problem is to send a PM to azpete, a Winnieowner and HWH employee who has helped out me and many other Winnieowners with HWH problems.

[4x4van]

I'd be checking the parking brake switch circuit first. If the unit "thinks" the brake isn't on, it won't operate (it's possible that running the engine will override that?).

[imnprsd]

4x4Van makes a very good point. So I googled "HWH 325 Circuit Diagram" and found this common manual with trouble shooting suggestions that talk about a "LED #35" in the HWH control box that is supposed to be lit if the parking brake circuit is working property.

Thanks 4x4Van for teaching for pointing out the emergency brake circuit. ...Because I doubt very many of us have ever took the time to look at the HWH control box for status lights to troubleshoot our system.

HWH 325 Manual

http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml37640.pdf

[turbo ted]

When looking for the fuses, I noticed a red LED light lit in the lower right quadrant of the control box. Kinda wondered why. Only light lit in the box.

[imnprsd]

TurboTed: Are you saying you now think you have a power problem to your HWH control box? Is LED #36 lit? That's the "board enabled" status light according to the chart.

...Did you check the relay in the picture posted above?

...Because it sounds like you are not getting power to your HWH control box.

That would also mean you need to do more homework than I have done so far; and maybe the solution lies in a more detailed review of the manual and trouble shooting subjects in the .pdf posted above.

Good luck and please keep us informed on what solutions you find.

...And if you get suck, search for other posts by Azpete (as recommended). You will find his cell phone posted and I believe he does not mind people calling. In fact, I think it prefers it vs. email or text.

[turbo ted]

Thanks, guys. I've been trying to retire, but bought 20 housing rental units, and right now is one of the times that they're really keeping me hopping. Will get back to the motorhome at the first break. I'll check which red LED light is lit. Your picture of the relay doesn't look like anything that I have. Maybe some different location of parts.

[imnprsd]

No rush, but I for one am looking forward to your conclusions when you fix this problem. This sounds more like a power problem since you have indicated your system work with the key "on" and does not work with the key in the "ACC" position.

So one thing you can do easily is check to see if that 5A fuse (in the last diagram below) is hot with the key in the ACC position vs. key-on position?

And if find you have a power-on problem that may signal an "open connect" problem or a dirty connection somewhere? ...And for that you might take some electrical cleaning spray to your HWH control box connections.

...Or you can call Paul "Azpete" at 602-549-3638 and he may be able to tell you 9x out of 10 what your problem is over the phone.

[HappiHenri]

(1) Sounds like your engine battery voltage is too low. Because you said that system works with engine running - but not if engine is off,
(2) For jack & slide operation the parking brake must be on. This is determined by a very simplistic switch located on top of the foot operated parking brake pedal. Contacts on it can get dirty, wire broken, etc.. Check it by removing large top dash cover over all the gauges - held on by 4 screws along the front edge.
(3) Very important that motors such as the HWH hydraulic motor receive proper voltage. Too low voltage and it will not even run - though it might still overheat. Also low voltage is very bad and hard on motors and wiring.
The HWH systems runs off the engine battery only.
(4) If your floorplan is like mine (Adven'urer 37b) the HWH electronics & hydraulic controls are all located under the driver;s seat, in front of the slide. Awful location as it is fully exposed to to road dirt & water. Therefore subject to lots of rust and corrosion of electrical connections and hydraulic hose fittings. You have to try and keep it all cleaned up. I coated all exposed fittings with a light layer of grease in order to prevent water corrosion. Yes - it attracts dirt but more important to keep water out.

[Rick 99037]

Turbo ted, I'm pretty sure the term "retire" and "20 housing units" are incompatible together. But maybe you hired a crackerjack building manager, so he contends with the issues for you.

[turbo ted]

Yeah. We had a little different plan 5 years ago, but selling my main business caused a change in plans, and the fact that money in the bank just rots today, rather tha gaining interest. Anyway, just a little more on the MH. I replaced my chassis battery a month ago, with Interstate. Checked it a week ago. 12.5 volts static, 14.4 volts with engine running. On the emergency brake issue - I would think that the control panel "on" light would not be lit if there was an issue with the e-brake. But, on the other hand, the "not in park/brake" light never lights, whether or not the e-brake is on. The battery voltage to the pump motor is good, because I can short across the big terminals on the solenoid, and the pump motor works fine. Only about 1,000 other things that it could be.

[Rick 99037]

At 66, and having no significant savings, and agreeing with you on how to beat inflation and low interest rates; we bought our single rental. Now 70, nothing has come close to that ROI. Smartest investment! Wish I could have afforded #2 when the market was down.

Our leveler on our 2005 Sightseer is by Kwikee. It didn't work when we bought it a few months ago. Kwikee has changed hands twice since it was manufactured. Not the greatest resources or help. Two RV places said it was the board @ $900. At least the second place said it looked like the board, but not confident that would solve the problem. The issue was a brakes not set error, then refusal to function because of it. They were set. Since our Workhorse chassis auto locks the brakes when you put it in park, we bypassed the wire as a starting point. Then in testing - the error light blinked off and on. My friend had bumped the wiring behind the board. It seems it was a poor connection in the plugin wires to the back of the board.
Next the batteries were to low to run it. Charged them up, and ran the engine. It worked. The chassis battery is 5 yrs old, and the deep cycles 10 yrs old. I had planned to replace them in the spring because I saw no reason to add one more winter to the new ones. Still do. Best wishes on both endeavors.

[fairview]

Hi Rick- I have a 2006 Sightseer with the same problem... can you elaborate on how you bypassed the parking brake signal? I've been troubleshooting this all year and can't figure it out. Encouraged that you got it to work without replacing the control board.

[Rick 99037]

So your 2006 Sightseer has a Kwikee non-auto leveling leveler? And you have a Workhorse chassis under it? If so, confirm it. And I'll ask my friend if he would document his board pinout and color coding adventure.

[fairview]

My bad... it's a Ford Chassis with the Kwikee auto level control panel. Part 906900427. Sure seems like the controller is not seeing the brake signal. My slide works fine.