Do we really need a braking system in our toads?

[IMDSailor]

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

I see a tremendous amount of fear-mongering in these posts. They remind me a lot of the advertisements for Yale Locks or an alarm company... "What if someone breaks into your home?" "What if your child is kidnapped?" You know these companies have become multi-million dollar entities because of the fears that they instill in the public mentality. Having your tow-hitch 'fall off' of your vehicle probably has a one in ten million chance of happening...the same with your toad coming unhitched and the safety cables/chains both breaking. C'mon folks, it ain't gonna happen. By the same token, I could go around saying "What if one of my wheels fell off?...some poor old lady pushing a baby-carriage might get killed...!" "What if my engine fell out of my coach...?" Please, gimme a break............

Wow!...just wow.

Moderator, clearly this thread has gone beyond any useful purpose. Please close it before more heads explode.

[Mich F]

Disregarding all the fear mongering, I don't see anyone claiming that a towed vehicle without some sort of braking system can stop in as short a distance, as one that has a braking system, which is the main reason for having brakes. It's probably not much of an issue with a large diesel pusher, or some Super C's towing a relatively light weight vehicle, but in most other situations, adding 3-5,000# or so behind most other vehicles will increase stopping distances by a lot.

[Gordon Dewald]

There is fear mongering and there is common sense. Unfortuately it takes some fear mongering before some folks have the common sense kicked into them. Believe it or not I occasionally do check the lug nuts so the wheels dont fall off. I check the oil so I dont seize an engine.

May be a one in ten million happening but by that statistic it does happen. Like winning a lottery. Lots of folks purchase tickets and some do win. I know a couple people who have won so it does happen. Do you buy insurance because it is a smart thing to do or would you take your chances. How many people do you know who have used insurance.

All you have to do is watch the ditches and observe the number of errant tracks that have been left there. Drive through Montana and observe the number of crosses placed at the side of highways. Enough said.

We seem to have no problems chipping, adding cams, exhaust mods, etc to make our units go better but in some cases are reluctant to stop them. Like they say it is not the fall that kills you it is the stop at the end. I would like my stop to be controlled so I or someone else does not become part of the news.

This issue is another example of why the Darwin awards were created.

[TwelveVolt]

There does seem to be a lot of static on this channel all of a sudden.

If you find yourself spending a lot of time dwelling on the idea of running over children with your MH and believe that leaving a few dollars on the counter at the RV store will make the difference, perhaps it's time to consider hanging up the keys before the grand kids have to ask for them.

Here is something else to consider to better understand the changes your body is experiencing:

http://seniordriving.aaa.com/maintai...ourses-seniors

You're scaring the children.

[navychaps]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

Here is something else to consider to better understand the changes your body is experiencing:

Driver Improvement Courses For Seniors | SeniorDriving.AAA.com

You're scaring the children.

Lol

[tedgard01]

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

... Having your tow-hitch 'fall off' of your vehicle probably has a one in ten million chance of happening...the same with your toad coming unhitched and the safety cables/chains both breaking. ... Please, gimme a break.

True, sometimes people make their point by using a vivid example of the most dire consequence of not taking action.

On the other side of the coin, it is also true that sometimes people chose to counter those arguments by trying to make the claim that their fears is totally unsubstantiated.

Usually the truth is not at the extreme view of any subject.

It is true that for MOST people that have a toad that is properly attached, with all the recommended safety features in place, and perform the recommend and timely towing gear inspections, will never experience a total separation of the toad from their RV.

It is also true that SOME people will experience a total separation of the toad for various reasons, and I know first hand of this happening to multiple people. Sometimes it can be attributed to faulty procedures that were followed by the person towing the toad, sometimes it can be caused by a failure of the towing equipment, etc. Sometimes There is not a total separation, but a near separation that results is caught before a full separation occurs.

The point is that it does happen, and it happens more frequently than the naysayers would think.

Regardless, please try to be civil when responding. You may not believe something will ever happen, when sometimes it does.

BTW, sometimes the wheals do fall off a vehicle, and that is also first hand experiance.... LOL


Ted

[Mich F]

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

I see a tremendous amount of fear-mongering in these posts. They remind me a lot of the advertisements for Yale Locks or an alarm company... "What if someone breaks into your home?" "What if your child is kidnapped?" You know these companies have become multi-million dollar entities because of the fears that they instill in the public mentality. Having your tow-hitch 'fall off' of your vehicle probably has a one in ten million chance of happening...the same with your toad coming unhitched and the safety cables/chains both breaking. C'mon folks, it ain't gonna happen. By the same token, I could go around saying "What if one of my wheels fell off?...some poor old lady pushing a baby-carriage might get killed...!" "What if my engine fell out of my coach...?" Please, gimme a break............

You started this thread which you should have titled Do I really need a braking system in my toad ?
With your combination of MH and tow vehicle, you probably don't "need" brakes for the toad for stopping. All the other "fear mongering" issues would still apply in your case.
In your first post you said that some think it's safer to have brakes, while you say maybe -really? In the case of so many towing, with a maxed out or nearly so MH and toad combination, as far as the weights go, it's not a maybe situation. Brakes can definitely make a difference on whether or not they are involved in an accident.
I wouldn't be surprised with all that towing you've been doing since 1987, if you didn't have a few combinations of MH and toad in that time, that should of had brakes .

[TwelveVolt]

Looking at the braking video above, I find myself wondering if I am driving the Lexus, Escort, or Land Rover of motorhomes when it comes to braking distance. A similar video with motorhomes would be very informative. A number of you are at the track already. Any takers? It doesn't have to be from 70 MPH.

Any ideas on why the Land Rover does not seem to have ABS?

Put a trailer on the Lexus or fill the trunk with cement and gardening supplies and you turn it into an Escort. Do the same with the Land Rover and you need an aux brake to stay within the published guidelines. No matter which one you own, you drive it with a trailing distance appropriate to that vehicle. Fill it with half a ton of passengers, fuel and cargo and adjust the distance accordingly.

[Ramzfan]

All I can say is, you have as much chance of your engine falling out of your vehicle as you do of having a trailer hitch break and come loose from the frame. Now if you want to dwell on what MIGHT happen in life, how about thinking about the heart attack that you could suffer behind the wheel of your 18 ton behemoth...now THAT is something that happens every day! Is there a supplemental braking system for that...?

[UFO Pilot]

Like I said before, some people just like at argue. Let this thread die an unnatural death!

[navychaps]

[tedgard01]

Well, I have first hand knowledge of several toad separation or at least near separations. Granted, none of then involved the actual "hitch separating from the frame", but rather, failure of the towing bar, or a tow dolly....

I have not seen an engine fall out. That puts the toad separation at a much better probability than the engine to me....


Ted

[navychaps]

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by tedgard01

Well, I have first hand knowledge of several toad separation or at least near separations. Granted, none of then involved the actual "hitch separating from the frame", but rather, failure of the towing bar, or a tow dolly....

I have not seen an engine fall out. That puts the toad separation at a much better probability than the engine to me....


Ted

Please elaborate. What happened and what could/should have been done to prevent it?

[tedgard01]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

Please elaborate. What happened and what could/should have been done to prevent it?

Sometimes it can be attributed to faulty procedures that were followed by the person towing the toad, sometimes it can be caused by a failure of the towing equipment, etc.

Sometimes there is nothing that could be done to prevent it, like when the tow bar simply broke off due to a faulty weld or a failure of other components.

The point that I was making is that it does happen more often than some people think. Like in the following comment;

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

All I can say is, you have as much chance of your engine falling out of your vehicle as you do of having a trailer hitch break and come loose from the frame.

Apparently Ramzfan was not aware that it is something that does happen. That is great that he has not experienced this type of thing, but that does not mean that it has not happened to others. But to be accurate, as I also said, none of them that I am aware of involved "having a trailer hitch break and come loose from the frame", but rather, failure of the towing bar, or a tow dolly, etc....


Ted

[navychaps]

Originally Posted by UFO Pilot

Like I said before, some people just like at argue. Let this thread die an unnatural death!

Originally Posted by tedgard01

Well, I have first hand knowledge of several toad separation or at least near separations. Granted, none of then involved the actual "hitch separating from the frame", but rather, failure of the towing bar, or a tow dolly....

I have not seen an engine fall out. That puts the toad separation at a much better probability than the engine to me....


Ted

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

Please elaborate. What happened and what could/should have been done to prevent it?

Originally Posted by tedgard01

Sometimes it can be attributed to faulty procedures that were followed by the person towing the toad, sometimes it can be caused by a failure of the towing equipment, etc.

Sometimes there is nothing that could be done to prevent it, like when the tow bar simply broke off due to a faulty weld or a failure of other components.

The point that I was making is that it does happen more often than some people think. Like in the following comment;




Apparently Ramzfan was not aware that it is something that does happen. That is great that he has not experienced this type of thing, but that does not mean that it has not happened to others. But to be accurate, as I also said, none of them that I am aware of involved "having a trailer hitch break and come loose from the frame", but rather, failure of the towing bar, or a tow dolly, etc....


Ted

Great points All! Now we know we will never agree, I vote for letting this thread die as we can argue without ever changing anyone's mind. And besides, someone will ask the same question next week and we can start all over again!

[Ramzfan]

I vote that if you're unhappy with a thread, don't read it anymore...!

[Clifftall]

Let's get back on topic , please. If you don't want to participate in this thread or any other , you can unsubscribe.
Cliff

[UFO Pilot]

From my Winnebago Motor Home Weight Information Sheet:

If the “trailer" is not equipped with brakes that are activated when the motor homes brakes are applied, the GCWR equals the GVWR plus 1000 lbs. An exception is any motor home model for which towing is not permitted. In that case, GCWR equals GVWR. For purposes of this definition, the “trailer” can be a trailer, a vehicle towed on a dolly, or a vehicle towed by means of a tow bar.


My GVWR is 26000 lbs and my GCWR is 30000 lbs. I can tow 4000 lbs with auxiliary brakes but only 1000 lbs without them.


“Fear mongering” from Winnebago?

[jmckinley]

I personally know two people who had hitches fall off. Considering all the incompetent installers and minimal development & testing of commercial hitches, I'm sure hitches fall off a lot. Everyone should be sure their safety chains are attached to the frame, not the hitch. And, in the case of motorhomes, attach the chains to the real frame not the welded on frame extension.