Do we really need a braking system in our toads?

[Ustamiata]

Two quick comments:
1) Having an accident without a toad brake is likely a lawyers dream!
2) It happened to me: base plate came loose, Jeep Liberty came loose, Brake Buddy stopped it without any drama. Base plate, tow bar, and safety cable were still attached to motor home. Liberty did not hit anything, but stopped in next lane, facing traffic (of which there was none, then) Tow a toad without a brake system? Not on your life!

[Thunderfoot]

Originally Posted by Ustamiata

Two quick comments:
1) Having an accident without a toad brake is likely a lawyers dream!
2) It happened to me: base plate came loose, Jeep Liberty came loose, Brake Buddy stopped it without any drama. Base plate, tow bar, and safety cable were still attached to motor home. Liberty did not hit anything, but stopped in next lane, facing traffic (of which there was none, then) Tow a toad without a brake system? Not on your life!

Might consider attaching your safety cable(s) to the frame of the coach & the toad for an extra degree of break away insurance.

[greystroke]

Originally Posted by Ustamiata

Two quick comments:
1) Having an accident without a toad brake is likely a lawyers dream!
2) It happened to me: base plate came loose, Jeep Liberty came loose, Brake Buddy stopped it without any drama. Base plate, tow bar, and safety cable were still attached to motor home. Liberty did not hit anything, but stopped in next lane, facing traffic (of which there was none, then) Tow a toad without a brake system? Not on your life!

Thanks for sharing this info.

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by Ustamiata

Two quick comments:
1) Having an accident without a toad brake is likely a lawyers dream!
2) It happened to me: base plate came loose, Jeep Liberty came loose, Brake Buddy stopped it without any drama. Base plate, tow bar, and safety cable were still attached to motor home. Liberty did not hit anything, but stopped in next lane, facing traffic (of which there was none, then) Tow a toad without a brake system? Not on your life!

You must be one of the pioneers who started the trend of cabling the tow plate to the frame. Good job. Glad no one was hurt.

Interesting that the aux brake put the toad in the oncoming lane. There have been several claims in this thread that it prevents that from happening. "Accidents" are peculiar that way.

When it comes to litigation, have to wonder if a dash cam would have more value than an aux brake.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by tedgard01

4) Most states have a reciprocating agreement with other states, meaning that they allow a person that is visiting their state, but resides in another state, to be determined found liable only under the law of the state that they reside in. Therefore, it is assumed that if you do not live in a state that already has a brake requirement, then you are probably not going to be found in violation of the law, even if the state you are in has a brake requirement. And besides, who wants to visit Alaska, Florida, Nevada, North Carolina and Wisconsin anyway.....


Ted

Most vehicle laws are not subject to reciprocity agreements, braking requirements are one of those, you must be legal in each and every state you travel in. So what is legal in your home state is immaterial.

[tedgard01]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

Most vehicle laws are not subject to reciprocity agreements, braking requirements are one of those, you must be legal in each and every state you travel in. So what is legal in your home state is immaterial.

First, if you never recognized it, my comment was meant to be taken with a bit of humor....

Regardless, let's assume you have actually researched the reciprocity agreements from a legal standpoint in all the 5 states that have a breaking requirement, versus just making a comment as to what you think is correct in regard to reciprocity....

In regard to the requirements for breaking, because only those 5 states have a breaking requirement, you are already legal in 45 states.

In regard to the remaining 5 states listed above that do have the breaking requirement, depending on the requirement, you may still be legal if you your toad is under the required weight limit, etc.

On the other hand, if you reside in one of the the five states that do have the breaking requirement, and you are already legal because you have a breaking system (and I do), then I would say what is legal in your home state is material, because now you are most likely legal in all fifty states....


Ted

[TheArnolds]

I find many of these threads to be posted by people who love to argue. If I say red you will say green! If the law says you need seat belts you need/use seat belts! If the law says you need a breaking system you need/use a breaking system. If you don’t use a breaking system you can avoid those states that do not require or take your chances! All these “what ifs” are just for the writer’s amusement! Those who think the breaking systems are not needed then don’t use it and you can assume whatever consequences that decision may bring!

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by TheArnolds

I find many of these threads to be posted by people who love to argue. If I say red you will say green!

All these “what ifs” are just for the writer’s amusement!

Exactly the point of a discussion that forces creative thought and generates new ideas.
"If everybody thinks alike, nobody has to think very much".
Otherwise, DC would become a historical ghost town for RVers to visit.
...unless owning an RV is no longer a correct thought.

[TheArnolds]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

Exactly the point of a discussion that forces creative thought and generates new ideas.
"If everybody thinks alike, nobody has to think very much".
Otherwise, DC would become a historical ghost town for RVers to visit.
...unless owning an RV is no longer a correct thought.

What is the new idea about using a toad brake that is the law in many states?

If all these people want to generate new ideas pick a subject that is not already governed by law. I have not read where anyone is trying to change the law so the thread is designed to get people to argue...pointless!

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by TheArnolds

so the thread is designed to get people to argue...pointless!

...and optional.

[tedgard01]

Originally Posted by TheArnolds

What is the new idea about using a toad brake that is the law in many states? If all these people want to generate new ideas pick a subject that is not already governed by law. I have not read where anyone is trying to change the law so the thread is designed to get people to argue...pointless!

Not to argue (LOL), but actually, from the information previously posted, only 5 states have a law that requires using an auxiliary braking system, and even of the five that require one, some only require it if over a specified weight limit.

See this post;

Originally Posted by Thunderfoot

An interesting read on the legal requirements...
Toad Brake Requirements

And just so that there is no misunderstanding, I do not advocate not having a breaking system on the toad. I have one and would not use a toad without one.



Ted

[ChallengerRN]

Almost looks like no matter what you do you will be legal except Nevada & maybe Florida. ??

Legal. Maybe not smart?

Russell

[Ramzfan]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

Exactly the point of a discussion that forces creative thought and generates new ideas.
"If everybody thinks alike, nobody has to think very much".
Otherwise, DC would become a historical ghost town for RVers to visit.
...unless owning an RV is no longer a correct thought.

TwelveVolt, I agree with the above thinking 100%...!

[Ramzfan]

Being as I started this thread, and you folks convinced me that I should go out and buy a braking (not breaking) system for my toad, I would like to comment on what I have found on my first long trip with the system.
My system is a Roadmaster Invisibrake. It was professionally installed. It is mounted in a 2011 Jeep Wrangler 4-door toad. I tow it with a 36' Diesel Motorhome powered by a 350 Cat engine.
I find absolutely no difference with the toad now as from when I towed it with no braking system. I have found that an easy way to tell is when I am using the engine brake. On long downhill decents, When the engine brake comes on, the toad brake comes on also. After 10 to 15 seconds, the toad brake shuts off, so as not to burn out the brakes. It is designed to operate this way. I have paid close attention when on these grades and when the toad brake shut off, there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE! Oh well, $1,400.00 later, I guess I can always claim that I have the latest handy-dandy braking system available if I'm ever in an accident....!

[NeilV]

So obeying the law is optional now? Interesting however I don't think I'd tell a police officer that one when he's writing me a ticket or he could end up putting the cuffs on me. Yes I have personally seen big mouths cuffed and hauled off for insisting their personal viewpoint overrode the law being enforced at the time.

The link I provided showed that most States, not just 5, do have a law with many/most stipulating 3,000 lbs requirements however since most people travel the populated corridors of the East and West coasts they will be required to adhere to the regulations/laws of the 5 states in those corridors with the lower posted limit of 1,500 lbs as reciprocity does not apply here so even if you have a toad that weighs in at less than 3,000 lbs a braking system is still required by law in the majority of the USA unless you never leave your State and you live in one of the 3,000 lb States. If your toad is 3,000 lbs or over than in the majority of the US a braking system is required.

Note although some few States are viewed as without laws specific to privately towed vehicles that is because they already have broad enough laws/regulations that already cover towing and you are still legally bound by those even if you do not know about them.

Its the law not a matter of personal preference or opinion and even if you do not note a difference in normal driving you will when it really counts. If you have an incident even if you are held liable in court for damages you will have a clean conscience in knowing that you did everything reasonable to prevent the loss.

[BCIslander]

My '03 Adventurer has a tow rating that states quite clearly that i cannot tow anything over 1000 Lbs without a braking system in place, my CRV weighs a lot more than that.

They really help in emergency stops as suggested in this discussion. Get an Evenbrake system (wish I had one) and all you have to do is hook-up and go.

Towing without is against the law in most provinces and states and where not stated, it's nebulous...just what lawyers love.

Be safe.

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by NeilV

Note although some few States are viewed as without laws specific to privately towed vehicles that is because they already have broad enough laws/regulations that already cover towing and you are still legally bound by those even if you do not know about them.

Be careful about getting carried away with the letter-of-the-law aspect of this discussion to the exclusion of the safety issues and the intent of those laws.

It may be written that a trailer brake is required only over 3000 lb. However, it fails to differentiate among the cases of that trailer being towed by a 30,000 lb. Class A, an F150, or a Smart Car. Although the Smart Car driver may be perfectly legal, are he and the rest of us safe?

[tedgard01]

Hey, just get a toy holler and put a Smart Car in it, then no breaking system is required.... Lol


Ted

[ardbark]

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

Being as I started this thread, and you folks convinced me that I should go out and buy a braking (not breaking) system for my toad, I would like to comment on what I have found on my first long trip with the system.
My system is a Roadmaster Invisibrake. It was professionally installed. It is mounted in a 2011 Jeep Wrangler 4-door toad. I tow it with a 36' Diesel Motorhome powered by a 350 Cat engine.
I find absolutely no difference with the toad now as from when I towed it with no braking system. ... Oh well, $1,400.00 later, I guess I can always claim that I have the latest handy-dandy braking system available if I'm ever in an accident....!

Ramzfan
I feel your pain. 6 hours and $500 bucks later I just finished the install of a Ready Brake system on my 2300 lb Geo Tracker which follows my 33,000 lb Discovery. Why? So in the event that every single weld on my trailer hitch fails and both 20,000 lb tensile strength safety chains fall apart all at the same time I won't be sued by a lawyer in a $1,000 shark skin suit.

I'm not opposed to a brake away system in the unlikely event that somehow the toad gets away from the coach. Fine. It happens. People get killed by boulders falling off mountains too. But when you're well within the GCVW of your coach - toad included - the service brakes are sufficient, They're engineered for a certain weight and the coach is certified for a certain weight.

As to following laws being optional, I just noticed it is illegal to fish for whales on Sunday in Ohio, and in Florida it is illegal to sing in a public place while attired in a swimsuit. Hey, its the law. Ignore it at your peril. Oh, and while you're in Florida don't even think of having sex with a porcupine, that's illegal too (swimsuit or not). Some government official found it necessary to write that law as well.

Just because some idiot legislator came up with some "law" doesn't mean it makes a bit of sense. Some do, many don't. That said, it also doesn't make sense to try and fight the shark in the $1,000 suit or his Brother-in-Law the judge in some po-dunk backwoods town (or anywhere in the sue-happy state of California). Hence my wasted Sunday and $500 bucks.

Ramzfan, wish I would have PM'd you on the Ready Brake. Found a website that was selling the whole kit cheap. Could have saved you a lot of money. Does it work? Hell if I know, but it's there and all hooked up and Officer O'Malley will be very pleased.

[NeilV]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

Be careful about getting carried away with the letter-of-the-law aspect of this discussion to the exclusion of the safety issues and the intent of those laws.

It may be written that a trailer brake is required only over 3000 lb. However, it fails to differentiate among the cases of that trailer being towed by a 30,000 lb. Class A, an F150, or a Smart Car. Although the Smart Car driver may be perfectly legal, are he and the rest of us safe?

The law is about more than just the vehicle being able to stop the weight of what is being towed with brute force as most of the States require a break away device to prevent runaways.

That one believes or wishes to believe that they what they have is special and there makes them above the law is really a moot point.