Waste/Sewage Valves Replacement

[MM2]

I own a 2020 Spirit (AKA Minnie Winnie) and am having trouble with both black and grey valves not closing completely. I've installed a "screw-on" gate valve at the hose connection, so am spared cap removal surprises, but I'd like to fix the factory valves. I've never liked the long snakes of cable connecting the driver side handles to the passenger side valves, and wonder about having the valves replaced and turned around so they use short conventional handles on the passenger side for more positive response. Anyone have any experience with this mod?

Thanks for any thoughts/insights.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Tony-

I eliminated the cables, but on a different make and model of motorhome. I rebuilt the sewer piping to put the valve handles where I could reach them easily with the wet bay door open. It took three tries to build the new piping correctly- ABS cement is unforgiving.

An in-between option is to use rod-operated valves. This allows "remote" valves, but eliminates the flexing and stretching of the cables.

[Morich]

I see why it is a problem but I also see several major hickups with trying to change it??/
Doing some looking at the interactive parts catalog here to get an idea of what they did and why it is a problem.
https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm

I took some snips of the drawings. Click these to get a better view of my thoughts.

First is that the cables are really long and they likely tend to bow instead of getting a really good push to close the valves. Then it shows they installed the valves tilted somewhat, likely to let the one clear the other!



But then I also see some questions on how to work the change??

Taking these fitting apart is often a cut and replace deal, so will you have space to get enough stub left to put the new on?


Then IF one can get the vavles changed, do it mean you have to replace all the way to the drivers side with new space for the drain?
OR does it mean going the shorter route out the passenger side but making your RV different for any future hookups at campsites where you may want to hook sewer and water but they are on different sides?

Moving the drain outlet may seem easier but then we get the drain hose on the passenger side where we are more often and odd to do hookups at campsites?

HUMM??

[creativepart]

I had this issue on a 2010 Arctic Fox travel trailer. The gate valves were tucked up inside the bottom of the RV for winter protection - to provide heat and make the trailer more cold weather capable.

But the Bowden cable (that's what it's called) kept coming loose at the valve and when pushing on the handle rather than make the wire inside the cable move the valve it just made the cable bend. Eventually it wouldn't work at all.

I took the TT to a local independent tech and he cut the cables, added new direct pull gate valves right where each drain line was joined into the main dump opening.

This is all PVC piping and any DIYer or RV Tech or Plumber for that matter can hacksaw the piping, glue on new fittings with direct pull gate valves and you're all set to go. No need to remove the old valves, just manually open them fully and remove the Bowden cables.

However, in freezing temps you will be subjected to possible freezing of those now exposed valves and the pipes behind them.

But who wants to camp in freezing temps anyway?

[MM2]

Thanks for this. It's a good suggestion about long extensions on rod operated valves, I'll have a look to see if there's a clear path to consider that.

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

Tony-

I eliminated the cables, but on a different make and model of motorhome. I rebuilt the sewer piping to put the valve handles where I could reach them easily with the wet bay door open. It took three tries to build the new piping correctly- ABS cement is unforgiving.

An in-between option is to use rod-operated valves. This allows "remote" valves, but eliminates the flexing and stretching of the cables.

[MM2]

Thanks for this very detailed reply, Morich. I hadn't thought about having to replace the whole drain system. Perhaps naively, I'd thought they could just remove the old valves and replace with new direct handle versions, but turned to point the other way. But things never are as simple as they seem, I suppose.

I've pondered the relative merits of moving the cap location to the passenger side, too. As you point out, it makes it kind of weird in hooking up (but not impossible). It could provide the basis for some interesting campsite neighbour discussion though. A side benefit would be that the driver-side bedroom slide would no longer be right of top of the sewer pipe.

Your graphics give quite a good overview of some of the challenges, I'm also going to crawl under the coach and get some photos to see how close my rig is to what is supposed to be there.

Cheers,
Tony

Originally Posted by Morich

I see why it is a problem but I also see several major hickups with trying to change it??/
Doing some looking at the interactive parts catalog here to get an idea of what they did and why it is a problem.
https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm

I took some snips of the drawings. Click these to get a better view of my thoughts.

First is that the cables are really long and they likely tend to bow instead of getting a really good push to close the valves. Then it shows they installed the valves tilted somewhat, likely to let the one clear the other!

Attachment 186671

But then I also see some questions on how to work the change??

Taking these fitting apart is often a cut and replace deal, so will you have space to get enough stub left to put the new on?
Attachment 186672

Then IF one can get the vavles changed, do it mean you have to replace all the way to the drivers side with new space for the drain?
OR does it mean going the shorter route out the passenger side but making your RV different for any future hookups at campsites where you may want to hook sewer and water but they are on different sides?

Moving the drain outlet may seem easier but then we get the drain hose on the passenger side where we are more often and odd to do hookups at campsites?

HUMM??

[MM2]

Thanks for your insights. It's possible that my cables are doing the same thing as yours were, it seems that there are many such problems about them and I feel it's a bad design choice. My valves are already out in the great outdoors, no heated underbelly here. Not that, as you say, I'd want to be camping in sub zero. Interesting suggestion, though, about leaving the old ones in place and putting new ones in line, in potentially more accessible locations.

Originally Posted by creativepart

I had this issue on a 2010 Arctic Fox travel trailer. The gate valves were tucked up inside the bottom of the RV for winter protection - to provide heat and make the trailer more cold weather capable.

But the Bowden cable (that's what it's called) kept coming loose at the valve and when pushing on the handle rather than make the wire inside the cable move the valve it just made the cable bend. Eventually it wouldn't work at all.

I took the TT to a local independent tech and he cut the cables, added new direct pull gate valves right where each drain line was joined into the main dump opening.

This is all PVC piping and any DIYer or RV Tech or Plumber for that matter can hacksaw the piping, glue on new fittings with direct pull gate valves and you're all set to go. No need to remove the old valves, just manually open them fully and remove the Bowden cables.

However, in freezing temps you will be subjected to possible freezing of those now exposed valves and the pipes behind them.

But who wants to camp in freezing temps anyway?

[Morich]

AND? What about exploring All the options before starting?

there are som electrically operated dump valves that one might want to consider---even though I'm thinking it may cost a bit! I did not see a price but suspect it is a shocker!

https://www.valterra.com/product/ez-...e-3-hub-x-hub/

Instead of cable runs or rerouting the whole, perhaps a thought about using electrical without the cables to move it an let a motor open the valve?

Things thrown at the wall will sometimes stick!

[MM2]

Thanks, Richard, I did actually consider those. At $330 CDN apiece they're pricey, but certainly something to "throw against the wall" in comparing the alternatives. Unfortunately it appears that they have no manual override in case of motor failure, though.

Cheers,
Tony

Originally Posted by Morich

AND? What about exploring All the options before starting?

there are som electrically operated dump valves that one might want to consider---even though I'm thinking it may cost a bit! I did not see a price but suspect it is a shocker!

https://www.valterra.com/product/ez-...e-3-hub-x-hub/

Instead of cable runs or rerouting the whole, perhaps a thought about using electrical without the cables to move it an let a motor open the valve?

Things thrown at the wall will sometimes stick!

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Tony-

Great suggestions so far.

Looking at the plumbing diagrams for your coach (link here), it seems to me that it would not be too difficult to run separate (black and grey water) pipes from the passenger side to the driver's side. You could mount two valves where the two current handles are now.

To be sure, I'd protect the pipes from being broken off by objects passing under the coach, with a sheet-metal shield, perhaps.

Or, get rid of the long run, re-pipe to the passenger side with separate valves and a common outlet, and use a clear elbow and longer sewer hose to dump- as in your first post.

I've read that some older motorhomes came with a single, combined grey and black water tank. That's an option, also. No re-piping necessary: Leave your driver-side "extra" valve attached, open the cable-operated valves and leave them open. Remove the cables if they are in the way. A "retro" solution!

Or, re-pipe to the passenger side, eliminating the separate valves, installing a single valve at the outlet. Add clear elbow and longer sewer hose, as above.

Less stuff to be cleared out with a road hazard.

I almost lost my black tank valve on my Class C. A piece of fiberglass with pipe through it loose on the road dislodged the valve, but the elbow ahead of it stayed put. I noticed the valve hanging about four inches lower some 10 days later. I taped the tank-to-elbow connection and then repaired that connection a couple weeks later, when I got home.

If you do move dumping to the passenger side (I like the prospect of not braining yourself on the slide), remember this is something you don't want to do with guests on the patio. ;-)

[Morich]

The idea of moving the dump to the passenger side has some good points but then I thought about what it does when you want to hook up at a site!
Some of the thinking will have to involve what you do on choosing sites as many are set to have the connections on the driver's side with electrical, water, and drain all on that side.

I thought about how much extra it would take to have electrical and water supply on one side while drain was on the other???
But that gets us back around to what style camping we each might do. If you are a mobile guy moving every few days, a bit of extra work and longer hose, etc. may not be a biggie as you may not hook up the drain at the site but just dump on the way out.

That moved me to thinking of the number of times we have been in places where we had to get in line as the morning rush of folks leaving was in full force. Again it depends on what the setup but when there is only one hole to dump and only one way in, the guy that needs to go the other direction is going to be a bit awkward!

I think I come down on the keeping it on the drivers side rather than trying to throw a drain hose under to the other side! Stinky slinky gives me enough trouble without making it tougher!

So how does it work out to leave the existing valves open, maybe take the controls off?
Then I'm pretty sure cutting and fitting a new valve on the drivers side is easier than trying to get space on the existing pipes to fit a new valve at the existing spots.
There are tools to ream out the old stub of pipe to fit new in when working with short cutoffs but they are not great to work, even when standing up like in a basement. I've done it in a crisis but the choice was tearing out a concrete wall so I did it. Not something I'll volunteer for again!

So is there room at the drivers side to cut the existing pipe and pretty much leave it where it is only add a new valve there? Can it be reached and be high enough to avoid dragging?

[Bo Walker]

My valves are easy to each. However, one of the valves leak constantly. I'm thinking it is the black water valve. I'll have to test it and then replace it. Because I don't know any other way.

[arthur145]

Originally Posted by MM2

I own a 2020 Spirit (AKA Minnie Winnie) and am having trouble with both black and grey valves not closing completely. I've installed a "screw-on" gate valve at the hose connection, so am spared cap removal surprises, but I'd like to fix the factory valves. I've never liked the long snakes of cable connecting the driver side handles to the passenger side valves, and wonder about having the valves replaced and turned around so they use short conventional handles on the passenger side for more positive response. Anyone have any experience with this mod?

Thanks for any thoughts/insights.

Same problem with 2021 22M black tank valve. Dealer repaired under warranty but that fix only lasted a few months. Finally went to independent RV shop who replaced the gate valve and shortened the cable. (to the length Winnebago should have) It works so much better now. $165.00.