Assistance with Lithionics batteries

[Marine359]

[electric]

There is a 100 years old presedence to treat batteries as expendable item, part of operating cost rather than capital cost. Dealers just don't know any better, yet. LFP battery like Lithionics could be considered as part of capital cost, like inverter or solar panel or a fridge, as it operates for 8-10 years under proper maintenance and could last as long as you own the RV.
Paradigm shifts take time, especially in conservative industries like RV.

[Mwelch86]

Just hit 1 year with our Flex and the Li3 app just stopped recognizing our battery. We tried reloading the app, no luck. Anyone else have this issue?

Also seemed like the battery isn't holding charge like it use to. We haven't changed anything on our end just seems like all of a sudden it's not lasting as long or not getting up to 100 percent from solar after a week in full sun?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated

[electric]

Originally Posted by Mwelch86

Li3 app just stopped recognizing our battery. We tried reloading the app, no luck.

Make sure battery is in the normal ON state, indicated by solid blue LED ring around the On/Off button. If charging it could also be slowly flashing, 0.5sec on and 0.5sec off.
Can you try to power cycle the battery to reset Bluetooth controller inside the battery? Hold the On/Off button for 5 seconds until LED turns off, release the button, wait 1 minute, then short press the button to turn it back on, then check the Li3 app again.

Another idea is to try from a different phone or tablet, to eliminate any possibility of the Bluetooth issue with your phone or tablet.

Also, Bluetooth is a peer to peer connection, which means once it connects to any one device, it will not show up for any additional devices. Sometimes this means another device is holding the connection, for example if you have multiple mobile devices with Li3 app installed, one of them might be holding the connection, even if app is in background.

After you can connect to the battery again check for green current value with "+" sign while charging from solar and how high does the voltage go after charging for many hours. Does it reach at least 14.0V to 14.2V. If voltage never reaches at least 14.0V then your battery is never fully charged.

[mfouts]

I will be able to sleep at night, thanks. I told the dealer taking my trailer numerous times that I felt the battery should stay with the trailer. I have no need for the lithionics battery. If you have read my previous posts I do not have the ability to convert this trailer to lithium. On a side note, the dealer called me and asked if they could buy the battery as someone figured out their mistake.

[Marine359]

Glad to hear that @mfouts. Hope you enjoy adventure with your new rv.

[MakoMike]

I have a 2020 Forza 34T that still has the original 4 lead acid batteries, Napa no maintenence. If I wish to change to Lithionics or another bran of LiFePO4 battery, will my Magnum 2000W inverter recognize them or is there something that need changing? BTW, I really wish the coach had a slide out battery tray.
Mike, Lakeland, FL

[Marine359]

A plain vanilla psw inverter doesn’t care whether you have FLA or LFP, but an inverter/charger does.

If you have Magnum inverter/charger, not just inverter, and this is your model#, it would appear that it can be programmed for LiFePo4. Suggest you check your Magnum owner manual.

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/pr...rter-charger-0

[creativepart]

Magnum MS2012 inverter charger will work with LFP batteries. That’s what I have in my motorhome. You may need to upgrade the control panel depending on which “remote” (that’s what Magnum calls it) that you have in your Forza.

Do you have the 3-button ME-MR remote or the ME-ARC 5-button (there are 2 other buttons and a control wheel on there, too). I’m not sure which remote is installed in a 2020 Forza, previous models have the simpler 3-button remote.

The ME-ARC lets you set all the custom charging settings for LFP batteries while the ME-MR does not. It’s a simple $250 diy upgrade.

Some new models have a standard LFP charge profile built in but Magnum stopped supplying those during the pandemic for some reason. But with the ARC remote you can customize the charge profile to exactly match your batteries.

[electric]

LFP battery has the same charge profile as AGM or GEL, so if your charger supports one of those, then you don't need explicit LFP support. Just don't set it to Flooded and never enable Equalization.

[creativepart]

While an AGM charge profile will work - that's important - it's not optimized for each battery's specifications. Having a programmable or custom charge profile tailored for your particular battery is ideal.

Many inverter chargers have a built in basic charge profile for LFP batteries but most also include the ability to modify the profile for specific batteries.

Magnum is pretty far behind on this with their Inverter chargers. Victron and Xantrax are much more up to date. For Magnum with the ME-ARC50 remote you can make all manner of adjustments with their CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage) setting - or using their regular Custom setting on the remote. The biggest problem with those is the large number of options - there are dozens of options for nearly a dozen parameters. It works be gets confusing.

Magnum does make a "Lithium" version of the MS-2012 and the MS-3012 along with a ME-ARC50-L version of the remote. But they can be hard to find on the marketplace. (There is a rummer that they are exiting the RV/Marine market entirely.)

I have 400ah of Renogy LFP batteries and the MS-2012 inverter charger. I upgraded the 3-button ME-MR to the ME-ARC50 remote and I use the CC/CV charge profile with settings derived from Renogy.

[MakoMike]

Pardon my omission. It is an inverter/charger. Will double check owners manualas I did not see an entry regarding LFP. Thanks

[Phil G.]

This is a very interesting and informative thread! The expertise evident here MAY finally be able to shed light on a question I've had about RV batteries during all the years that we've owned our pretty much excellent Winnebago 2005 Itasca Class C ... plus a related question concerned with "easily and least expensively" switching our RV over to lithium coach batteries:

I've used only double-battery sets of Group 31 true deep-cycle AGM batteries in our RV (down through the years these individual battery capacites have ranged from 100 AH to 125 AH each - for total coach capacities of 200 AH to 250 AH).

I have intentionally never changed out the 13.6V-13.8V single stage converter that Winnebago installed stock in the RV. We do not long-term camp in sites - a few days here and there in campsites. During travel, my coach's twin AGM batteries get topped up with 13.8V-14.4V from the engine's stock 130 amp alternator. When camped, the RV sits in hook-up or generator powered sites with the stock converter applying 13.6V-13.8V to the AGM batteries. When not using the RV, it sits in the backyard hooked up, with the stock converter continuously applying it's 13.6V-13.8V to the AGM batteries as a "float" condition.

Here's my AGM RV battery question - have I been damaging my AGM batteries down through the years while parked (when driving, the alternator supplies higher voltages) by not using a 3-stage charger on them ... or have I merely been experiencing "longer charging times" times due to the stock single-state converter?

Here's my lithium RV battery question - if I want to replace my two AGM RV batteries with two "drop in" Group 31 size LiFeP04 RV battery replacements, will I damage 1) the LiFePO4 Group 31 RV batteries themselves, or 2) my stock 130 amp engine alternator ... by changing nothing in the RV except it's two coach, batteries?

P.S. The only reason I would change to the lithium coach batteries is so I could effectively "add battery capacity" in my Class C by continuing to use only it's stock under-the-step battery compartment (since lithium batteries can be drained down to around 10% of their capacity before recharging, while standard deep cycle 12V AGM batteries should only be drained down to around 50% of their capacity before recharging).

[electric]

3 stage charge is needed to gain a full charge quickly by applying higher voltage at first, to facilitate high current flow thru often long and relatively low gauge wires, then after bulk stage is finished drop voltage down to float for long term safe storage or maintenance mode.
By omitting the full charge stage, except when driving, you are actually helping your batteries last longer, but at a price of not having a fully charged battery when you might need it. It's a tradeoff between longevity and being fully charged all the time. It seems to work well for you, so you can keep doing the same thing with LFP batteries. In your case it could just be a drop in replacement, as long as you know you can't have a full charge until you run the engine for a bit after coming from float charge stage.
On the other hand, LFP battery will hold the charge much better while in float, as it has very little self-discharge compared to lead acid.

[electric]

relationship between an LFP battery and the stock alternator largely depends on length and gauge of wires running from the alternator to the battery, including the ground one, which may or may not run thru steel chassis for some of it's path. LFP battery has very low internal resistance, so wires become self-limiting factor for current limit based on voltage drop between 2 end points. It's important to strike the right balance of not overloading the alternator if wires are thick and short, vs. not getting a good bulk charge current if wires are thin and long and if negative runs thru steel chassis, which is a terrible conductor.
On my Class C with 640AH LFP bank I'm pulling 150A from the 200A alternator, which is perfect for my needs and doesn't melt the alternator.

[electric]

Originally Posted by Downytide

@electric , repair shop has bunch drawings from WGO for wiring but nothing seems to fit the drawing

@Downytide , attaching the PDF with instructions for 2nd battery install, as you requested in the PM.

Dual Battery Instruction Set.pdf

[AandPB]

Hello,
5 days boondocking?
We have had our new 2108TB FLX and traveled over 6k miles and over 2 months straight going from over 100 degree weather to below freezing. Various issues we have learned from and grown as users of the Lithionics battery and Xantrex inverter equipment. In all that time and miles we typically get 2 days maybe 3 and that is running minimum appliances. In fact I beta tested the batteries in the driveway with no appliances on and at 3 days I needed to plug in to recharge.
Is the 5 day boondocking really possible, if so how do I achieve that?
Thank you again

[electric]

What was your solar situation during those 3 days in the driveway? Longest boondocking implies maximum solar charging and minimal appliance use. You have a 4kWh bucket of energy, solar is trickling energy into the bucket depending on solar angle, shading, season, dirt on panels, etc etc. Many variables to consider for how much solar trickles into the bucket. And then you are flowing energy out of the bucket with lights, DC fridge, fans, etc, all of which also depend on use pattern, weather, season, etc. It is expected that energy flow out is faster than flow in, on average, but actual time when this difference approaches 4kWh varies depending on all those factors.

[CampinInCO]

My FLX inverter shows Flt under Batt.

What does this mean?

I also have a beep coming from it, I believe every 60 seconds.

[creativepart]

Looking at the Xantrex Manual that FLT is short hand for Float which is the final charging stage. I have no idea what the beeping is. Have you checked to insure that your Inverter/charge is set up correctly? There is another thread here with details on that issue.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...rs-363804.html