A/C not cooling 2022 Minnie 2529RG

[Ray,IN]

Creativepart, While instaling a new PC board in my heat pump, I got a surprise about the Winnebago EMS. Mine was not hooked up when I accessed the electrical box. When finishing up the wiring, I did as the instructions said and hooked up the EMS wires. The heat pump #2 compressor would not run on 30A.
I unhooked the EMS wires and both compressors ran fine on 30A, so I left it the way it was before I started with the wiring.
I've read comments where Winnebago service dept. told others a basement heat pump would not run #2 compressor on 30A. Obviously the W technician was right.
I prefer to manually manage my incoming energy anyway.

[TwoFrom93449]

We own a 2022 2529RG, which we bought in August 2022. We had done lots of online research regarding the trailer, so were well aware of the issues with EMS. I was told by several WB salespeople, that there was no EMS on 2022 2529RGs. We were actually planning on waiting for a late 2022 2529RG that was going to have 50A service, until we learned what the "transitory inflation" had done to the bottom line on the trailer. For us the 2022 model seemed to be the best buy. When we we were doing the inspection of our trailer, before finalizing the purchase, we tried both ACs concurrently and (not to my surprise) the main AC shut down. I asked about the wiring for the second AC (whether it was wired in series with the main AC) and was shown one of the breakers that was labeled BR AC, so I knew there was a wire from the BR AC to the panel. My long term plan was to create a cord for the BR AC that I could run to a separate plug on the pedestal, as was mentioned in this discussion. Recently I needed information on our converter, and when I pulled the converter out from behind the main panel, I noticed a metal box with an Energy Management System tag. That proved that we did have EMS. Why did the main AC shut down during inspection, I don't remember what all was running in our trailer, but my guess is that the supply was on the low side. I have followed discussions of soft starts and converting to 50A service. I am not convinced the soft starts are a solution, and thought the cost of I was told for the 50A conversion, was not worth our very occasional need of two ACs. Our previous fifth wheel had 50A service, but only one AC, and there were only a few times in ten years that we wished we had a second AC. So we are finally on a trip with enough heat to give me a chance to see what I can determine about EMS with our two ACs. Much to my surprise, today I was able to run our BR AC along with the main AC. I don't have any power management device to know what our pedestal voltage is, but we are in an area with mainly tent campers, so I assume we've got good power. The temperature is only in the mid 90s, but our trailer is in full sun so the AC units themselves are hot and we are getting some significant radiant heat. I had both units running for at least twenty minutes, and fiddled with the temperature and fan speed settings on the BR AC during the whole time. I was checking that both units were blowing cold air. I think with EMS, the units will take a slight pause (one second maybe), but then come back on. We will be in Fresno next month, so that will be even a better test.

[CrispyBones]

Very interesting. So, you did nothing with the electrical system that would all of a sudden allow both A/C units to run in tandem? If you don't mind please give us updates as to how it worked out in the end after a few days of use.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by CrispyBones

I did for a moment have both A/C units running but within 5 minutes the TT shut off completely. However, it shut off at the Watchdog surge protector, not the TT if that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that even though I was using only one of the A/C's the microwave triggered a shut down which should never happen.

I find this to be somewhat the "classis" low voltage condition, not an Rv problem!
When the Surge protection shut down, did you look at info on how it is meant to protect things? I suspect that would tell you it will shut down when voltage gets either too high or too low as a way to protect your RV!
So when you run past the warnings, it is quite possible you are putting small bits of damage on any motors that try to start with low voltage that you have verified and others in the campground are also finding!

Logical solution is for the campground to be shut down until the power problems are fixed! But that is rearely done as folks are not awarte that low voltage causes far more equipment failures than surges! We scream when hit by lightning but rarely notice the small damage as it builds quietly over time!

If we look at motros, we find they have miles of thin wirewrapped around a core. That wire is often insulated with something super thing like shellac as a way to get more wire and less insulation. Works great as long as that wire doesn't get hot enough to melt the shellac type stuff!

When we try to burn motors on voltage that is too low, they have a really hard time starting and pull lots of current. That increased current and very slow starting makes even more heat, so we get a gradul buildup of heat each time the motor starts!
At some point if done often enough, first one strand of wire looses the insulation and shorts to the next wire, then another and another. Finally lots of wires short out and the motor "burns out"!
But that is often doesn't happen while you are in that campground but maybe months later and nobody may recogize where the problem first started at a campground like the one you are in!!

The surge protection is like any other warning you get. Ignore it at your own expense! The campground is not going to chase you down to tell you they are the reason your AC has to be replaced if it goes out two weeks from now!

[CrispyBones]

Morich, what I do know about the Watchdog is that power is shut off for 90 seconds should voltage go under 104 volts or over 132 volts. The surge protector will after that 90 seconds try and reengage. There is some customizability that I can try with respect to alerts but I don't know what that all entails. I've not tried any of it. When the surge protector shut down the TT initially I never took a screen shot on my phone and I'm kicking myself for not doing so. It would've helped everyone here if I could have shown the error.

What I'm going to try tomorrow is run my A/C at home using generators. I'm hoping that do a couple things. First, check to see if my gennies are putting out 120 volts using the Watchdog. If they are then I can essentially test my A/C's to see if they are cooling like they are supposed to. I'd like to get a temperature testing device as IOS3 recommended so that I can test the temp at the distribution vents as well.

I'm scheduled to take my TT in for a diagnostics for the A/C issue. If my findings tomorrow are such that I can pin it down to low voltage I may be able to avoid having to lug my TT down to the shop. I'll keep everyone posted.

[Morich]

Something that can ber simple to do if we are watching is to listen to the motors as they begin to start. It takes some gettting used to knowing how they sound when normal, so we can tell when no normal, but can be a really easy clue if we can hear the difference in starting.
You know how a car engine sounds really different when it is so cold it is slow to start?
Somewhat the same idea on electrical. If they normally just up and start quick, they put out a diffferent sound when voltage is too low.
More of a longer slower "grunt" sound, if that makes sense?
The good voltage is what makes the force to begin to turn the parts in the motor and as it first gets power but is NOT moving yet, it really draws lots of current and that tends to heat things. If it is too low and that heat is too much or lasts too long, that is when the inner coils of wires beging to get damage. Lots of motors have fans attached to help pass air over the parts but those fans don't move much air when first starting, so the idea is higher voltage is going to move the parts up to full speed sooner and that gives less time to overheat.
So if you hear the AC taking more time to get things moving, that is when a bit of damage may begin.
Getting to know what the normal sounds are for new RV is the hard part!

Are you familair with the idea of not trying to turn the Air cond. off and then restart it right away? The compressor needs tome for the high pressure to bleed off a bit before trying to restart. Different units take a bit more time than others, so it is often jsut a good idea to not have it running, turn it off and then 5 seconds later on again as the compressor is then trying to work to start against higher pressure. Some have a built in delay to keep you from doing it but others leave it up to us!!!

[creativepart]

I don't know about other Winnebagos other than mine... but running both A/Cs on 30-amp is really hit and miss. Sometimes it works for a while and stops. Other times it will only run one A/C and then allow the other to start, too. Sometimes it's the front A/C that runs, sometimes it's the bedroom A/C.

And I can experience all of these conditions at the same campground on the same 3-day stay with all the conditions the same.

It helps that I can turn off the battery charger in the inverter control panel. But it's not a slam dunk no matter what. I could go outside and read the voltage, I suppose, but I never have done.

Also, my Precision Circuits EMS logs the amps used by each load on the previous start up of that device and uses that figure for load shedding decisions.

My point is... in my experience, over 6-years, when on 30-amp it's not unusual for 2-A/Cs to work sometimes and not others. I do not think that this is a problem with my RV, or my A/C units or my EMS. Just the nature of the system.

[Morich]

One of the problems this whole situation has is the number of variables involved!
The same campground will have differening loads each day and at every hour of the day.
One day there may be 25 sites full , the next about all full. The RV on each site will change dailly/hourly and the use each rv puts on th epower grid changes as folks choose to use different appliance at different times. Some may get up and decide it is the weekend,so they want to do a roast while other days they do sandwiches?
Even small things will change the voltage we get a teach site.
We all know that wires on our RV tend to corrode but how much thought do we give to the power grid when we choose a site? Doesn't it make sense that there is a central point for the power supply st start and it runs our on lines furhter and further from the source? What do you bet that there are lots of connections to get loose or corrode between the close end and the far end of the run of cable!

Power is always going to vary but how much and when is not going to be something we can predict so we best just be aware of it and do our best to avoid the big trouble!

[TwoFrom93449]

Well said

[CrispyBones]

Just a quick update.

Yesterday I plugged my TT into two gennies that I have paralleled together. On the initial try I had my Watchdog attached as well just so that I could pull voltage numbers. The Watchdog continually shut down because one of my generators was idling weird and was sending the voltage above the threshold of 132. After some frustration I pulled it and hooked up my TT directly. However, what I did note was that the voltage never dropped beneath 120 which was what I was looking for anyhow.

Where I live it's getting into the upper 90's low 100's. Inside the TT it was 91 degrees. After an hour and a half of using the bedroom A/C the temperature never dropped beneath 84 degrees. It was definitely cooling though. Just by placing my hand up against the vent I could tell. I also checked to see what temp it was blowing at using a thermostat and it read 61 degrees at the vent.

That all said I was hoping that temps would dip at least down to 72 and it just never got there. I did this test at 2:00pm until 3:30pm which is typically the hottest part of the day.

What's frustrating is that my old 2015 Starcraft Launch Ultra Lite 24rls had no problems in the heat. It would cool down quick. The difference being my Starcraft had a downdraft version of A/C versus what my 2529RG has now which is vented. I'm really not liking the vents to be honest. It's almost as if by the time the air gets out of the vents it's heated up just from traveling in a tube between the roof and ceiling. Matter of fact, as I've mentioned before there are maybe 3 vents out of 7 that are pushing enough air to where it makes a difference. The A/C in my 2529RG bedroom works like it should and feels like to pushes plenty of air and probably because it's not vented. It's old school with just the dials.

At this point I'm probably going to still take the TT in for service and maybe see if they can't figure out what I can't.

At this point of owning my Winnie TT I'm almost wishing I would've kept what I had with the Starcraft. It's one issue after another that I never had with the Launch. I'm hoping things turn around soon.

[Morich]

Airflow is the second big thing after the actual cooling. so if you ge that much drop in temp from ambient to after cooling, that sounds like the A?C itself is doing it right but you are right in the amopunt of reheating the air gets blows through the hot duct that gets reheated next to the roof!
Parking in shade is nice but not easy to find!

So it may be time to pull some of the vent covers where the cool comes out and try to look for anything blocking the flow. There are lots which are just the basic foamboard like packing only shaped like the duct. White bubbles of foam?
There are times when the ducts don't get connected togehter right and you may be blocked or venting into the ceiling?
Or the foam may be broken and a piece turned sideways to block flow?

Kind of iffy advise but it may be worth a peek in the ductwork for anything odd?

[CrispyBones]

Quick correction:

After an hour and a half of using the living room A/C the temperature never dropped beneath 84 degrees.

[TwoFrom93449]

Still no luck running both ACs at the same time? Maybe get the main unit running, the start BR at lowest temp?

To your question of whether we have altered our electrical, nothing other than adding a couple of plugs for convenience. Those plugs were not being used when I had both ACs going.

I am anxious to see if both ACs will run together when we visit our daughter in Fresno. I will report findings.

[CrispyBones]

I didn't have any luck running them both at the same time. I did start the BR unit on low and then cranked it up. Both stayed on for a really short while and then the entire TT shut off. Now, keep in mind that I was hooked up to two parallel gennies at 5,300 feet in elevation. That means my wattage went from 4,000 down to 3,400 watts. For every 1,000 feet in elevation generators lose 3% of power. So, in my case I'm around 15% shy of what I should have.

[rmartinjr4]

I am having the very same a/c issues with my Minnie 2529RG. Even while in the much cooler weather in Colorado. I noticed my main a/c quick cycling three times then eventually would auto shut off. Recently, we were back home in 100+ degree Texas had to run both A/Cs and kept tripping the pedestal breaker. I quit using the front a/c and the main one ran non-stop. It did manage to cool down to 73 degrees, but would quick cycle throughout the day. At night it would auto shut off when it got to temperature. The main a/c's shroud is not vented (except for return side) so there shouldn't be much (if any) cold air in there. We all know there's lots of room for improvement in that area of the a/c. The thin white foam and metal pieces that are supposed to separate the return air and keep cold air from escaping into the return area of the a/c was poorly installed. Actually, I don't think that junk works anyway. My thinking is a/c was freezing up as a result of the poor airflow. I ended up purchasing an a/c airflow mod and hope it does the trick. On an old Jayco I used to own, I installed a DIY airflow mod and it worked very well increasing airflow by quite a bit. It was so strong that one of the air ducts would close so I had to prop it open with a clip. I've got a trip to the coast coming up next month and that will help me determine what my next steps will be. I will be taking my generator to storage and check things out before that trip. Thankfully, I am still under warranty for another few months.

[Ray,IN]

This is kinda off-topic; check the divider in the A/C unit to insure it's sealed tightly. I call it a plenum that divides the return air from the chilled air output. If this divider/plenum leaks chilled air over into the return air, it greatly reduces efficiency.

If the delta/difference in chilled air at a register and return air is not a minimum of 17°F, that divider is the first item to check.

[CrispyBones]

Interesting take, rmartinjr4. I'd be interested in knowing if you were experiencing low voltage or not while using shore power.

[CrispyBones]

Ray, I thought about the very thing when I pulled the cover for the living room AC. I peaked in but didn't see anything out of the ordinary. But, then again I'm not familiar with where that "divider" would be.

Quick FYI I took my TT to service last Friday. I hope to hear back soon.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by CrispyBones

Ray, I thought about the very thing when I pulled the cover for the living room AC. I peaked in but didn't see anything out of the ordinary. But, then again I'm not familiar with where that "divider" would be.

Quick FYI I took my TT to service last Friday. I hope to hear back soon.

The divider is inside the TT. You take the inside vent/return air cover off. Inside there is an opening where the cold air enters and is distributed and another large opening where return air goes back up to be vented outside. The divider is a foam board between the two openings.

The goal is to insure all cold air goes into the ceiling ducts and not back up into the return air.

Search on YouTube for videos on improving RV A/C unit cooling.

[CrispyBones]

UPDATE

I got my TT back from the shop and turns out that one of the sensors that is attached to the "power box" that sits just above the plastic intake panel was not set properly. It should've been nested between the fins of the compressor/condenser above the roof. The sensor was replaced and nested properly. FYI, I did see that sensor dangling when I did my initial inspection but didn't think anything of it. Figured it was supposed to be that way.

After trying the A/C at home it seems to be working okay. It was 88 outside and I got it down to 71.9 after about an hour. My TT sits between two houses and under a big tree and it was overcast outside so I'm probably not using ideal conditions for a test. I'm still discouraged that it took that long to cool.

Now, after reading many of the recommendations here I did do a visual inspection. One thing I found is that the manufacture install was just piss poor. There are leaks all over the place. Where the wires run from the "power box" up to the unit above there was a huge hole. As a test I shoved a towel up there and saw the temps drop 2 degrees within minutes. My guess is that refrigerated air from the supply was being sucked up into the return. No bueno.

I did watch some videos per recommendation from Creative and plan on either building or buying an air distribution set up. I hope to see dividends post-install.