Battery Peace of Mind

mtalcott · 01-31-2021, 07:28 PM

Greeting fellow Winnebago owners! I am brand new Micro Minnie 1800BH owner. I previously owned a pop-up travel trailer...I realize now, after being home for a few days with my new RV, that I don't seem to understand how batteries work.

If someone has a few seconds, I have a few question and would greatly appreciate the help.

1. What kind of battery do I have (or likely have)? I purchased my RV at the Tampa Lazy Days location and the battery actually says "Tampa Marine Batteries" or some such name...I don't recognize any of the numbers or figures on the top...it does not have Amp Hours clearly indicated or AGM, etc.? (is there a way to decode the top of it?)

2. When I store my RV (likely 2-5 weeks each time), should I actually physically disconnect the cables from it? There is a disconnect switch in the storage bay--isn't sufficient to just switch the battery off? ... I also should have mentioned my RV came with a 100W solar panel installed and wired with a basic GoPower battery monitor system...

3. The battery monitor that detects if the solar panel is charging or not, says my battery has a 3/4 charge...it's a brand new battery... is that a problem or normal?

4. I have seen online that a cheap and good upgrade to increase the reliability and life of lead acid batteries is a "smart" charger converter... do I already have a "smart" charger converter?

My apologies for the lengthy post, but I am terribly confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

v/r
Matt

Morich · 01-31-2021, 07:56 PM

1. Most likely to be a "flooded lead acid" battery (FLA) as they are the older more standard battery and new items rarely come with the best!
Cynical, huh?
Marine batteries are often a hybrid type where they are semi deep cycle but alos used to start boat motors, so not as deep long lasting as other "true" deep cycle, perhaps. The info may be on the sides but finding a name brand or size like 24N may let you do a search for specs on it. Good time to look it over might be the next time you have to take it out???

2. even though we cut off the battery disconnect, there are often a few things like CO2 and propane detectors which are left on for safety. Also a battery has a certain amount of "self-discharge which will let them go flat over longer periods. A cheap battery disconnect like this makes it easier:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Battery-T...YaArFaEALw_wcB

3. likely just needs a bit more charge

4. Newer units likely have what might be called a smart charger as that implies that the voltage the charger puts out at first is then reduces as the battery reaches full charge. Watching the water is part of the key to good battery life as well as not letting them go totally flat at any time.

GaryS · 01-31-2021, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morich

2. even though we cut off the battery disconnect, there are often a few things like CO2 and propane detectors which are left on for safety.

On my 1705RD the battery cut off shuts off everything including the CO2 and propane detectors. Everythng.

Old Navy · 01-31-2021, 10:05 PM

Most of the new trailers come with a Group 24 or 27 Sealed Flooded Lead Acid "Marine" battery. The converter is most likely a WFCO 8955. The battery cutoff should cut off everything that draws power. The slide switch and tongue jack still have power but won't draw current unless you use them. The battery will "self discharge" over a few months with the battery switch off, or a couple weeks with the battery switch on.

mtalcott · 02-01-2021, 04:32 AM

Thanks for the response. This is very helpful.
.

DavidM · 02-01-2021, 05:07 AM

Here are some answers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtalcott

Greeting fellow Winnebago owners! I am brand new Micro Minnie 1800BH owner. I previously owned a pop-up travel trailer...I realize now, after being home for a few days with my new RV, that I don't seem to understand how batteries work.

If someone has a few seconds, I have a few question and would greatly appreciate the help.

1. What kind of battery do I have (or likely have)? I purchased my RV at the Tampa Lazy Days location and the battery actually says "Tampa Marine Batteries" or some such name...I don't recognize any of the numbers or figures on the top...it does not have Amp Hours clearly indicated or AGM, etc.? (is there a way to decode the top of it?)

It is most likely a Group 24 or 27 flooded cell lead acid battery with 60-80 Ahs each.

2. When I store my RV (likely 2-5 weeks each time), should I actually physically disconnect the cables from it? There is a disconnect switch in the storage bay--isn't sufficient to just switch the battery off? ... I also should have mentioned my RV came with a 100W solar panel installed and wired with a basic GoPower battery monitor system...

With that solar you should be fine if you just switch the battery off. The solar panel controller output should be wired directly to the batteries, bypassing the switch.

3. The battery monitor that detects if the solar panel is charging or not, says my battery has a 3/4 charge...it's a brand new battery... is that a problem or normal?

It is pretty normal for new batteries to show that. Charge with solar for 3-4 days and check again.

4. I have seen online that a cheap and good upgrade to increase the reliability and life of lead acid batteries is a "smart" charger converter... do I already have a "smart" charger converter?

You probably have a reasonably smart WIFCO or PD charger/converter.

My apologies for the lengthy post, but I am terribly confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

v/r
Matt

backtrack15 · 02-01-2021, 06:04 AM

The only other thing I would add to this discussion is that you should read the owners manual(s) for the GoPower system. I have a Renogy system and it requires that I cover the solar panel and/or disconnect the panel from the controller before disconnecting the battery cables.

Using the disconnect switch in the trailer is not a problem, but adding another disconnect switch at the battery or removing the battery cable(s) would be a problem for my solar controller if it was still receiving power from the panel.

Congratulations on the new trailer! We love our 2100BH.

Marine359 · 02-01-2021, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtalcott

Greeting fellow Winnebago owners! I am brand new Micro Minnie 1800BH owner. I previously owned a pop-up travel trailer...I realize now, after being home for a few days with my new RV, that I don't seem to understand how batteries work.

If someone has a few seconds, I have a few question and would greatly appreciate the help.

1. What kind of battery do I have (or likely have)? I purchased my RV at the Tampa Lazy Days location and the battery actually says "Tampa Marine Batteries" or some such name...I don't recognize any of the numbers or figures on the top...it does not have Amp Hours clearly indicated or AGM, etc.? (is there a way to decode the top of it?)

2. When I store my RV (likely 2-5 weeks each time), should I actually physically disconnect the cables from it? There is a disconnect switch in the storage bay--isn't sufficient to just switch the battery off? ... I also should have mentioned my RV came with a 100W solar panel installed and wired with a basic GoPower battery monitor system...

3. The battery monitor that detects if the solar panel is charging or not, says my battery has a 3/4 charge...it's a brand new battery... is that a problem or normal?

4. I have seen online that a cheap and good upgrade to increase the reliability and life of lead acid batteries is a "smart" charger converter... do I already have a "smart" charger converter?

My apologies for the lengthy post, but I am terribly confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

v/r
Matt

Hi Matt,
Your battery is likely a Group 24 Marine battery. On the side of the battery it should indicate “24M” . These batteries are rated in cold cranking amps like a car battery. The side of the battery should show the CCA likely around 550.
These kinds of batteries are installed by dealers because they are cheap (under $100). It Can be OK for you if you only plan to stay at RV parks with hookups. It is unsuitable for continuous cycling; discharging to 50% or less and recharging. You will have to replace this battery after maybe 100-150 deep cycles.
The MM does not come with a “smart” charger. It cannot be programmed. It is factory programmed for deep cycle or AGM, which requires a bulk charge to 80 or 90%, then a trickle to full.
If you live in a cold climate, when you are not using your MM, disconnect the battery and bring it indoors. FLAs can freeze, and are pretty much useless after that. When you bring it inside, hook it up to a smart AC charger, like a Noco10, available on amazon for $99. This will preserve the life of your group 24 until you are ready to buy a new battery. The AC charger will keep your battery floated to near full, which is where FLAs like to live.
If you replace with a LiFePo4, you will have to buy a new charger for your MM. lithium’s have an entirely different charging profile which is incompatible with the stock charger converter in the MM. lithium’s do not like being stored at over 90%, or being charged I freezing weather, but don’t mind being stored in freezing weather.
If you’re on a tight budget, you can just buy a couple of 6v AGMs and have a good solution without having to replace your charger converter. If you plan to own you trailer for 4 years or more, LiFePo4 becomes the more economical solution because they will last 3,000 to 5,000 charge cycles.

Good luck

**creativepart** · 02-01-2021, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine359

Hi If you plan to own you trailer for 4 years or more, LiFePo4 becomes the more economical solution because they will last 3,000 to 5,000 charge cycles.

Keep in mind that a great many of us “plan to own you trailer for 4 years” but get itching for bigger, fancier RVs pretty quickly once we get started. (Kind of like we do with boats and motorcycles.)

This is an argument for sticking with what you have now to see what you really need down the road.

Consider a portable generator like a Honda or other brand. That can solve all power problems now and be useful later no matter what you decide to do.

Marine359 · 02-01-2021, 08:32 AM

Great advice Creative.
We followed your advice and logged a few trips before deciding to make changes

tinglett · 02-01-2021, 11:37 AM

And just for orientation, here's a photo of your battery charger that you'll find below your refrigerator. I believe newer models have an access panel below the stove and it's been relocated there. What you see here is a circuit breaker/fuse panel, but the charger is located behind the panel on the right which is behind the little open door in the photo. There's really no reason to pull open that panel to look at it. But that's where it is. And that charger should be plenty fine for the battery you have.

I'd also very much suggest you figure out exactly how you will be using your trailer before modifying all this stuff. You may find you have very little demand on the battery (i.e., love to stay at RV parks with hookups) or very heavy demand trying to "survive" for many days without power or maybe just can't deal living without that drip coffeemaker. Generators, solar, and fancier battery systems can all be part of the solution.

On the other hand, modifying a trailer is a hobby in itself for many on these forums!

Marine359 · 02-01-2021, 03:36 PM

My wife can’t get out of bed without me serving up a hot cup of Joe.
Drip coffeemaker = 1,200 watts
Keurig = 1,500 watts
Stanley thermos French press = 0 watts
French press coffee tastes better, and the Stanley holds 6 cups hot for 30 minutes.
$50 if you buy on sale. Since you need to bring a teapot anyway, it also takes up far less space and won’t break.

Pianotuna · 02-07-2021, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtalcott

1. What kind of battery do I have (or likely have)? I purchased my RV at the Tampa Lazy Days location and the battery actually says "Tampa Marine Batteries" or some such name...I don't recognize any of the numbers or figures on the top...it does not have Amp Hours clearly indicated or AGM, etc.? (is there a way to decode the top of it?)

2. When I store my RV (likely 2-5 weeks each time), should I actually physically disconnect the cables from it? There is a disconnect switch in the storage bay--isn't sufficient to just switch the battery off? ... I also should have mentioned my RV came with a 100W solar panel installed and wired with a basic GoPower battery monitor system...

3. The battery monitor that detects if the solar panel is charging or not, says my battery has a 3/4 charge...it's a brand new battery... is that a problem or normal?

4. I have seen online that a cheap and good upgrade to increase the reliability and life of lead acid batteries is a "smart" charger converter... do I already have a "smart" charger converter?

My apologies for the lengthy post, but I am terribly confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

v/r
Matt

I suggest NOT plugging in between trips.

Think about adding some solar charging

Consider upgrading the batteries when they die with SiO2 chemistry.

johneed · 02-08-2021, 07:16 AM

Interesting stuff! I just bought a 200-watt solar panel and controller. I haven't done anything with it yet. I still have the stock (cheap) battery, and have yet to get the trailer out (winter storage in Minnesota).

Q: If I buy two 6-volt AGM batteries (e.g. golf cart) to replace the single 12-volt battery, do I need to do something different with my controller, or does hooking them up in series essentially make a 12-volt battery setup?

Rick 99037 · 02-08-2021, 08:02 AM

You're correct. Two 6V series batteries equals 12V. Know that golf cart batteries are a little taller, and with only 3 cells, the centered hold down brackets don't just need to be taller, but also shifted off-center. Buying the right size all-thread should do the trick.

**creativepart** · 02-08-2021, 09:11 AM

The way to think of two 6v batteries wired In series is to think of them as one 12v battery.

As such your current setup needs no modification.. You are replacing one 12v battery with another 12v battery.

This applies to your solar charge controller, as well. If it has settings for battery type you’d just want to choose FLA or AGM depending on which type of GC batteries you purchase.

Marine359 · 02-08-2021, 09:14 AM

I would add that you need to remember when you have two batteries in series to connect the pos cable from the charge controller to one of the 6v batteries, and the neg cable to the other. In this way the cc charges both batteries.

**creativepart** · 02-08-2021, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine359

I would add that you need to remember when you have two batteries in series to connect the pos cable from the charge controller to one of the 6v batteries, and the neg cable to the other. In this way the cc charges both batteries.

I thought of mentioning this... but hoped the “one battery” concept would naturally cover that bit. Thanks for mentioning that.

Yes, once the two batteries are wired in series, with the one battery concept there is only one positive and one negative. They just happen to be on different 6v “boxes.”

RocknRoll · 02-10-2021, 03:34 AM

IMHO, if you desire a positive battery experience, replace the stock 12V with a lithium battery/charger setup. This should be an option at the factory. Although not cheap ($650), it allows me "piece of mind"

Advantages

1. 2X the AH rating (can run from 90% to 10%)
2. Charge time is reduced by 50% (important for solar)
3. 10X the number of cycles (lifetime)
4. No maintenance
5. 50% of the weight

tinglett has an excellent write-up on how to replace the charger.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3886305

al1florida · 02-10-2021, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johneed

Interesting stuff! I just bought a 200-watt solar panel and controller. I haven't done anything with it yet. I still have the stock (cheap) battery, and have yet to get the trailer out (winter storage in Minnesota).

Q: If I buy two 6-volt AGM batteries (e.g. golf cart) to replace the single 12-volt battery, do I need to do something different with my controller, or does hooking them up in series essentially make a 12-volt battery setup?

You will need 1 additional short cable to wire your two 6v batteries in series. The short cable will go from the negative to the positive inbetween the 2 new batteries, and as mentioned before your positive and negative cables will go to the ends of the 2 new batteries.

Here is a like to some very good info about RV electrical, batteries and charging. If you scroll down a ways you will find drawing showing how batteries are wired in series as well as parallel.
The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)

There are lots more very good info in the link above. Well worth your time to read through it. Also at the bottom of the website is a link to click on to go to the second website for even more info.