AGM to Lithium Battery 2019 Micro Minnie 2108DS

joeclorite · 09-08-2023, 09:21 PM

What do I have to do to change my 2019 Winnebago 2108 DS from an AGM battery to a lithium ion battery?

Marine359 · 09-09-2023, 05:41 AM

What is your motivation to switch to LFP? It’s not a trivial upgrade if you want all that a LFP can deliver. If you don’t do a lot of boondocking, just going with 2x 6v GC batteries will be less expensive, easier, and maybe just as effective for your needs. But of course they do require maintenance.

Where do you want to mount the new battery?
If you put it on the tongue, you’ll need a way to heat it in freezing weather before charging.

How content will you be charging it with your existing charger?
I don’t believe you can do a board level upgrade to the 2019 WFCO converter/charger.
You cannot charge fully on a three stage charging system. Some people use it for bulk mode, and top off with solar.

We mounted in the pass thru under the driver side cabinet. But we also added a heating mat to the battery for use in winter. We also went with the more expensive option of installing a hybrid inverter/charger. The system works great. We always have ac when we need it. 170ah of LFP and 400w of solar allows us to boondock for several days. We have a compressor fridge which eats a lot of power. If you have an absorption fridge, you won’t need that much battery or solar.

To get an idea of a complete upgrade, take a look at photos on my upgrades and mods album. Good luck with your upgrade. There are lots of MM owners on the forum who have done it.

joeclorite · 09-09-2023, 06:37 AM

I'm looking to travel into more of our great National Parks and sadly most of them don't have electric hookups.

I see that you have installed an Inverter/Charger for your LFP. Where was your charger located and where did you wire that into? As with most owner manuals, they don't tell you where to find it. They Did say that it is only a 6 amp charger though, so I'm assuming that would not be enough for the LFP.
As for heating it, there seems to be a lot of models now with a self heating option.
Thanks for your quick response.

Marine359 · 09-09-2023, 07:30 AM

The charger sits on the floor behind the distribution panel. It can be totally removed. We just disconnected it when we wired the inverter/charger. Heated LFP didn’t exist when we installed ours. And even today, I think it’s cheaper to buy an unheated battery and wire in a mat.

RocknRoll · 09-09-2023, 08:39 AM

For around $800 you can get 200AH of LiFeP04 and an inverter/charger. If you're handy, replacing the inverter/charger takes about an hour.

What you'll get is:

Zero maintenance
1/3 the weight and more than 3X the capacity compared to Lead Acid
Able to place the battery inside the pass-thru instead of the tongue.
Bluetooth monitoring and low temperature sensing (add a mat as Marine suggested and you'll be able to charge in cold weather)
Last but not least, it'll probably last longer than your trailer.

Add another $600 or so and you'll get some limited solar capabilities (including an inverter).

Gunny Rio · 09-10-2023, 12:04 PM

You can just swap Lithium our for lead-acid or AGM. You will likely want to change out the charging board to your converter as well (depending on the model of converter it may/may not support lithium charging profiles. A AGM or lead-acid profile will work, but you wont be getting all the capacity of the lithium with those profiles).
As others have stated you can also add may more components to the system to really up you game but as expected those can cost.

My 2022 1708FB has:
400W of roof mounted solar ($500)
2 100AH Battleborn self heating batteries ($1800)
3000W Pure sine wave inverter ($1000)
Upgraded charging board to the stock converter ($185)
Bogard Trimetric battery monitor ($350)
Victron 30A solar charger ($200)
Misc cables, breakers, cut-off, & Hardware ($350)

Its a pricey system, but I know I have enough power to support both my wife and I working remote with very little chance we'd have to hook up a generator. Generator is just for when we might need the AC.

tinglett · 09-10-2023, 05:41 PM

I upgraded my 2019 2108DS to Lithium and posted the saga starting here: https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...iv-359008.html

The PD4655LIV is a board replacement for the WFCO and not really that hard to install. As I point out in that thread, I'm not sure I'd bother replacing the distribution panel if I were to do it again...but read through the thread and see what you think. At most you are going to get a max of 35A to the batteries due to the 6 AWG wire from the charger to the batteries (it really can do 55A, I proved that in another thread, with shorter wire and presumably with heavier gauge wire).

Lithium is an expensive mod. The tech is always improving so be sure to do more research before heading down that road. As you've already seen in this thread, others approach the problem in different ways. It's almost a hobby in itself. And I mean that seriously. If you don't really want to design and build a solution, it may not be something you want to do and instead address whatever issue you are having with your AGM setup.

No1Hunter · 09-10-2023, 07:08 PM

Quote:

I upgraded my 2019 2108DS to Lithium and posted the saga starting here: https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...iv-359008.html

I completely overhauled my battery/solar system. Like tinglett, I documented my project here:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...tt-365973.html

joeclorite · 09-11-2023, 07:06 AM

Thanks for you're reply. It's sounding like a project.

No1Hunter · 09-11-2023, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeclorite

Thanks for you're reply. It's sounding like a project.

It only depends on how far you want to go with it. Mine project was probably at the extreme end of things. The biggest thing is to determine what converter you have and see if it can be upgraded to charge lithium. You might take a picture of the model number and post it here.

Another route, which I almost took, is to simply install a lithium battery charge near your battery. If there is an AC outlet, the better. Otherwise, you will need to use an extension cord.

Marine359 · 09-11-2023, 10:44 AM

@joechlorite,
Hey Joe,
Another option you may want to consider is buying a powerstation. Major brands like Ecoflow, and Bluetti have 2Kw models that are affordable, and lightweight, about 50lbs. By getting a powerstation, you can bypass all installation work and expense, and another plus is that you can plug solar directly into it without needing a separate charge controller. These units can be charged with solar or ac. On ac they charge several times faster than you can charge a battery using your embedded rv charger/converter. Just stick the powerstation into your pass through, or keep it in your tow vehicle. When you need power, plug your shore power cable into it. 2Kw is the same as 170ah.

If you looked at my album, you will note that I did an extensive upgrade similar to others, including 170ah LFP, hybrid inverter/charger, solar charge controllers, negative shunt monitor, 300w rooftop solar, and 100w portable solar. All but the solar would have been unnecessary, if I could have bought a powerstation 3 years ago. I’m pleased with my upgrade results, but I’ll tell you straight out that if there were high quality advanced technology and affordable 2Kw LFP powerstations on the market when I started my upgrade three years ago, I would NOT have upgraded the way I did. For $1,600 invested in a powerstation, I would have gotten the EXACT same functionality that my upgrades give me for far less money, and zero DIY time invested. It’s like carrying a portable FHU pedestal around with you. Any charging option you might consider for a permanent upgrade, will work just as good or better with a powerstation. Your existing battery and charger can stay in place, and if you sell your rv, you take your powerstation home, which leaves the RV fully functional in the manner in which you bought it.

I believe powerstations are a big time game changer for those RVers considering an initial upgrade installation of LFP/Charger/Solar setup. Although my permanent upgrade is pretty robust, I actually recently purchased an Ecoflow Delta 2 Max 2Kw powerstation (I have no affiliations). When we go camping, I can take it along, and it basically doubles my existing battery capacity and boondocking time. When we’re not camping it’s paying for itself at home, as the center of my newest DIY project: partial home off-grid and grid down backup system. Think it over before you undertake a big project as has been discussed.

TravatoJohn · 09-11-2023, 12:06 PM

Joeclorite, before you do anything watch the YouTube by Ross Lukeman regarding the top three mistakes adding a lithium setup and what it can do to your alternator. He is with Battlleborn. Worth watching. Another is by Vandercamp Adventures about the Renology DC to DC charger. Good Luck. Travato John

No1Hunter · 09-11-2023, 12:47 PM

It all boils down to convenience. I like it that my TT operates pretty much as it did from the factory except if I want AC while boondocking, I or my wife simply push a button next to the microwave. Especially since my wife is an early riser and I like to sleep in a little.

Otherwise, a small generator or power station will do fine.

Jerry49 · 09-13-2023, 05:39 PM

I just converted my 2022, 2108DS to lithium. Converting over required changing out the converter/charger to a Lithium compatible unit. I also upgraded my solar charge controller to accommodate the Lithium charging algorithm and added a DC to DC charger to protect my tow vehicles alternator. All-in-all an expensive conversion but having a 12 volt frig made it almost a requirement for dry camping.

Marine359 · 09-13-2023, 07:17 PM

Congrats @Jerry49,
Agree that when you buy a Micro Minnie with a 12v compressor fridge, it’s mandatory to upgrade your electrical system if you want to do any boondocking. Unless of course you buy a FLX. The other alternative is to get a 2Kw powerstation. Now that I have both permanent upgrade and powerstation, I’m a happy camper, and my beer will never get warm.

RocknRoll · 09-14-2023, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine359

When we’re not camping it’s paying for itself at home, as the center of my newest DIY project: partial home off-grid and grid down backup system. Think it over before you undertake a big project as has been discussed.

Great advice. Flexibility with portable power is a huge bonus. I have outages 2-3 times a year, one of them last year was as long as 5 days. To keep things quiet at night, I'll use (2) different power stations for lights and multiple fridge/freezers. Then during the day, I'll recharge them while running a whole house, dual fuel 12 kW generator.

Good luck with the project.

Jerry49 · 09-14-2023, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry49

I just converted my 2022, 2108DS to lithium. Converting over required changing out the converter/charger to a Lithium compatible unit. I also upgraded my solar charge controller to accommodate the Lithium charging algorithm and added a DC to DC charger to protect my tow vehicles alternator. All-in-all an expensive conversion but having a 12 volt frig made it almost a requirement for dry camping.

I also added a second 190 watt solar panel and a ground suitcases solar panel for a total of 480 watts solar. And of course, a shunt and battery monitor.