Does Inverter suppose to have power in Store Mode?

[dkoldman]

For a 2019 Sunstar 29VE, I have discovered that when my USE / STORE switch is set to STORE.... I can still turn on the Inverter and everything on Inverter circuit has power. Additionally the Ant/Cable Booster switch also has power even though it is in STORE mode.

If I disconnect the Chassis battery while in STORE mode, the Inverter and the Ant/Cable booster switch will turn off?

Does any have a coach that does this or know what the issue may be. From drawings I can't make out what may be wrong?

[Podivin]

I would expect the inverter to be connected directly to the batteries. They can pull a lot of power so fewest connections and the shortest cable run possible is the best route, with no extra to go to a switch or solenoid. Also it could be more power than is wise to run through eiter switch or solenoid.

[Morich]

Much of the info on how things are wired is no longer posted for RV built after about 2010, so looking at the drawings is not going to find much. On the older models which have actual wiring schematics posted, we could look at how things are wired but that is no true for the newer.
I suspect it may be a case of trying to work out the answer by trial and error or perhaps a call to Winnebago would get an answer.

Whether that answer is actually correct is then still something to be checked as there are some which just shoot from the hip, without actually checking.
I have found in dealing with some questions on my 2015, that just adding a manual disconnect was easier than dealing with their answers which tended to mislead me!

[JLUSoCal]

I just checked my 2017 29ve. With battery cutoff (switch in stairwell off) the inverter in my year will not power on.

My inverter is a xantrax 1kw pro - it's a modified sine wave and I'd like to upgrade to pure sine wave someday. I don't think the MSW's are good for our exterior electric-only refridgerator.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Podivin

I would expect the inverter to be connected directly to the batteries. They can pull a lot of power so fewest connections and the shortest cable run possible is the best route, with no extra to go to a switch or solenoid. Also it could be more power than is wise to run through eiter switch or solenoid.

Its suppose to be direct to the House batteries per Winnebago phone rep. He states the switch controls a solenoid, but I don't know where. I have 1000 watt Inverter.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Morich

Much of the info on how things are wired is no longer posted for RV built after about 2010, so looking at the drawings is not going to find much. On the older models which have actual wiring schematics posted, we could look at how things are wired but that is no true for the newer.
I suspect it may be a case of trying to work out the answer by trial and error or perhaps a call to Winnebago would get an answer.

Whether that answer is actually correct is then still something to be checked as there are some which just shoot from the hip, without actually checking.
I have found in dealing with some questions on my 2015, that just adding a manual disconnect was easier than dealing with their answers which tended to mislead me!

I have tried to use those drawings, but they seem to have everything but what I am looking for. They do not show 12vdc going into the AC cabinet? I am trying to find the Coach Battery Switch now to see where it leads to.

I did call Winnebago today and it went something like this.
1. the cable antenna should not have that much draw so it should not hurt you.
2. If you turn off the Inverter when turning off the Coach Battery you will not have a problem
3. But they acknowledge that the Coach Battery Switch should shut it all down. We proved it over the phone by disconnecting the ground from the House batteries and both the Inverter went off and the ant/cable LED went off.
4. He then says I need to have a Dealer look at it because something is wrong. I am out of warranty, so this may be the 1st repair I need. This should be so simple; but I worry what dealer may charge out of pocket.

You nail the point about "if they are correct?" I actually have a spare Disconnect Switch, but if I am willing to go under the steps, I can just shut off the chassis disconnect switch, and for whatever reason that solves the problem as well.

This problem to me would the equivalent of flipping a bedroom light switch and light will not go off, but if you outside and turn off breaker for dining room, the mysterious light will now turn off Can't be that many pieces, so the problem component ought to be well known?

I need all the help I can get

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by JLUSoCal

I just checked my 2017 29ve. With battery cutoff (switch in stairwell off) the inverter in my year will not power on.

My inverter is a xantrax 1kw pro - it's a modified sine wave and I'd like to upgrade to pure sine wave someday. I don't think the MSW's are good for our exterior electric-only refridgerator.

Thank you. Winnebago says it is suppose to cutoff the Inverter and the Ant/Cable power.

I have the Magnum Inverter 1000 watt pure sine wav. It actually runs the outside fridge and inside Norcold at under 300 watts!!! However we only use the Norcold on Inverter while driving when alternator is running or if we need for 2 hours or less


Questions.

1. Does your Ant/Cable light go off two when House Battery is Off?
2. Do you know where the solenoid is that the switch controls? My guess is that my coach is successfully shutting of 12vdc somewhere (maybe at the DC breakers?) but the the Inverter and ant/cable is picking up power in front of the physical switch?

[JLUSoCal]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Thank you. Winnebago says it is suppose to cutoff the Inverter and the Ant/Cable power.

I have the Magnum Inverter 1000 watt pure sine wav. It actually runs the outside fridge and inside Norcold at under 300 watts!!! However we only use the Norcold on Inverter while driving when alternator is running or if we need for 2 hours or less


Questions.

1. Does your Ant/Cable light go off two when House Battery is Off?
2. Do you know where the solenoid is that the switch controls? My guess is that my coach is successfully shutting of 12vdc somewhere (maybe at the DC breakers?) but the Inverter and ant/cable is picking up power in front of the physical switch?

1. Battery disconnected - no ANT/Cable on the King ceiling or the push button (at least on mine) inside the cabinet above the door (complete waste of space these days and I think they finally eliminated?).
2. On mine it's outside behind the driver above the propane door (little door), you have to open the black plate where the breakers are mounted for things like the awning / steps etc and it's behind there. There's a solenoid that I think pairs the batteries (coach and chassis) and a smaller disconnect switch - here are the pics of each.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by JLUSoCal

1. Battery disconnected - no ANT/Cable on the King ceiling or the push button (at least on mine) inside the cabinet above the door (complete waste of space these days and I think they finally eliminated?).
2. On mine it's outside behind the driver above the propane door (little door), you have to open the black plate where the breakers are mounted for things like the awning / steps etc and it's behind there. There's a solenoid that I think pairs the batteries (coach and chassis) and a smaller disconnect switch - here are the pics of each.

This is very helpful. I think I have found my drawing for the solenoid and the disconnect switch (see page 2). I really feel as if one of these devices may not be working properly? I still need to eyeball them; but at least I know where to look. When I do find them, I need to research how to test them to find out if one is defective that requires replacement?

Agree on waste space above door in AV Cabinet.

I added a new HDMI switcher to allow for two inputs and it is where I keep one of my Roku boxes. There is just too many wires to do anything practical with the space. I was very fortunate to find coach prewired for HDMI. My Omni Antenna is on the roof so the ant/cable switch is the only thing I go inside for. I have another cable switch outside in the electrical bay. There are actually 6 coax input cables for Satellite!!! 2 in AV cabinet, 2 in MBR and 2 in the Electrical bay.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by JLUSoCal

1. Battery disconnected - no ANT/Cable on the King ceiling or the push button (at least on mine) inside the cabinet above the door (complete waste of space these days and I think they finally eliminated?).
2. On mine it's outside behind the driver above the propane door (little door), you have to open the black plate where the breakers are mounted for things like the awning / steps etc and it's behind there. There's a solenoid that I think pairs the batteries (coach and chassis) and a smaller disconnect switch - here are the pics of each.

I am beginning to believe that the Winnebago Reps are wrong about my Battery Disconnect switch being able to cut the power to the Inverter?

I found my Solenoid & Disconnect Relay. They are on opposite coach. I believe the Disconnect relay is only to shut the power to the 12vdc Panel, which works (goes on/off with Disconnect relay switch) on my coach. The issue I see is when I can turn on Inverter and send power to AC receptacle that are fed by Inverter with the House Batteries are supposed to be OFF?

My inverter is direct wired to battery and passes through a 150amp fuse in battery compartment. However I cannot find a breaker on the line to the Inverter?

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I am beginning to believe that the Winnebago Reps are wrong about my Battery Disconnect switch being able to cut the power to the Inverter?

I found my Solenoid & Disconnect Relay. They are on opposite coach. I believe the Disconnect relay is only to shut the power to the 12vdc Panel, which works (goes on/off with Disconnect relay switch) on my coach. The issue I see is when I can turn on Inverter and send power to AC receptacle that are fed by Inverter with the House Batteries are supposed to be OFF?

My inverter is direct wired to battery and passes through a 150amp fuse in battery compartment. However I cannot find a breaker on the line to the Inverter?

It’s a bit tough to get through to the real issues here, but I’ve been following your posts.

I’m going to speak about our set up, because who knows what Winnebago does with every iteration and model.

The inverter on ours, is directly connected to the batteries—there is no “breaker” in line.

And if I turn off the battery disconnect switch, I will no longer get power to the inverter, so that lead off of the battery must pass through yue disconnect switch as well.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

It’s a bit tough to get through to the real issues here, but I’ve been following your posts.

I’m going to speak about our set up, because who knows what Winnebago does with every iteration and model.

The inverter on ours, is directly connected to the batteries—there is no “breaker” in line.

And if I turn off the battery disconnect switch, I will no longer get power to the inverter, so that lead off of the battery must pass through yue disconnect switch as well.

Thanks this helps my sanity as I now have 2 Winnie owners confirming what 3 Winnie Customer Reps have told me, it is suppose to shutdown the Inverter. Mine does NOT

I read the Magnum Dimension owners manual and it says per NEC code, you are suppose to have both overcurrent protection (a Fuse which I have 150amps), and a Breaker; which I don't see on drawings, nor have I found yet on the coach? There is a spot on the main DC breaker panel labeled for a Inverter, but there is no breaker there. That relevant because in that breaker panel is the Solenoid and the Battery Disconnect Relay. But what is odd is that it is a long ways across the coach from the physical Magnum Inverter. Why such a long run?

FWIW, the same Magnum Dimension manual says on page 7 that the RVIA allows for what appears to be an exception for for the breaker requirement as long as the ampacity on the output side is based on the AC output of the Inverter which I am pretty sure Winnebago is smart enough to do. It is likely why they didn't add an optional 110 supply receptacle behind the Norcold fridge.

Yesterday, I asked Winnebago to provide me the detail drawing for my Inverter. I may have to ultimately take it back to a dealer but I don't wish to wait that long; nor do something like this during the prime of summer.

During meantime, I need to find out where that 12v Positive wire that goes through the 150Amp fuse leads to? Physically; it looks to go direct to the Inverter but is gets buried in all the looms But when I blew up on the detailed wiring diagram, I believe I saw where there may be a 12v Positive line that twist and turns several times across the coach over to that DC panel? Maybe the problem is that it is supposed to be wired to that panel but is NOT?

[dkoldman]

Update:

I don't know why but doing some more trial and error testing today this is what I found out.

The Chassis Switch is ON in all of the scenarios below; so Chassis being ON/OFF has no effect on these results.

I observed this morning the Coach Battery Switch was off. The Inverter and ANT/Cable LED was not lit, so out of curiosity; I tried to turn on the Inverter with Remote switch. Nothing happened, I could not turn it on. I push the ant/cable button and same thing I could not turn it on. That made sense because Coach battery was off.

So I tried to repeat it. I turn Coach Switch back on & Ant LED lit up, and I was able to turn on Inverter. So I then turned the House Battery OFF and of course the Ant LED stayed green and the Inverter stay on. So to replicate what may have happened overnight, I left it alone. I checked every 10 minutes and everything stayed on. However after about 30 - 40 min the Inverter shuts down and the Ant LED goes out. You cannot turn on the Inverter at this point as long as Coach Battery switch is OFF.

So while I don't know why or how, it seems like I have the best of both worlds? If I were to forget an leave inverter on when I turn the House Battery off, it will shutdown by itself 30 - 40 mins later. Same for Ant / Cable LED. Knowing this I could also purposely leave a few things on Inverter and turn off the Battery Switch; and still have time to get a few things or belongings and have assurances that if forget to turn Switch Off it will do so by itself

My next steps is to talk to Magnum because this may be some hidden feature?

During the meantime, I love this coach

[Wyatt]

Could the capacitors be holding enough residual power to keep the antenna light on that long after you shut down using the battery disconnect? What if during that 30 minutes or so that you see the inverter still has power, you were to try running something big that the inverter powers, like some tv’s? I wonder if then the inverter would power down sooner?

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

Could the capacitors be holding enough residual power to keep the antenna light on that long after you shut down using the battery disconnect? What if during that 30 minutes or so that you see the inverter still has power, you were to try running something big that the inverter powers, like some tv’s? I wonder if then the inverter would power down sooner?

I have tried 4 this times now. I ran one TV on the last 3 tests and it is still 30 - 40 minutes. That TV only consumes 90 watts. I just got off the phone with Winnebago rep giving them the update. They state I should get with Magnum to find out why or the specifics as to what the Inverter is doing. They do say the Ant light is in the Inverter circuits so that is why it was staying on.

Despite my problem being solved and actually solved better than my expectation, I am still frustrated until I learn why or how the Inverter knows the Coach House Battery switch has been turned ON/OFF?

I pulled the panel off to get to the inverter and it only has 12v positive red, Black and a ground, a Rj11 for the remote connected to it. That 12v positive cable goes straight to the battery through the 150amp fuse. So somehow when the Coach Battery switch opens / close the relay... that message must somehow go in reverse back to the inverter? It is just strange, and the Winnebago Rep couldn't help me Drawings are useless in this aspect.

I am so glad I stayed at it, and saved the trouble of going back to the dealer; no telling how much stuff / hours they would have been having to replace or fix only to get back to where I am now.

[RTrider]

On my 2014 38Q, there is a manual disconnect on the wall of the compartment just forward of the battery compartment. I have never tried to turn the inverter on with the the house electrical switch off, but a red light on the inverter control panel stays on unless the manual switch is turned off. I have a 3K watt inverter. I also found I have to turn the manual switch off if leaving the unit for more than a few days or the batteries will discharge. An interesting thing is that with the manual switch off, the generator will start, but will not provide power to the refrigerator and microwave (and I assume other outlets that can be powered by the inverter). I am thinking your unit might be wired in a similar manner.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by RTrider

On my 2014 38Q, there is a manual disconnect on the wall of the compartment just forward of the battery compartment. I have never tried to turn the inverter on with the the house electrical switch off, but a red light on the inverter control panel stays on unless the manual switch is turned off. I have a 3K watt inverter. I also found I have to turn the manual switch off if leaving the unit for more than a few days or the batteries will discharge. An interesting thing is that with the manual switch off, the generator will start, but will not provide power to the refrigerator and microwave (and I assume other outlets that can be powered by the inverter). I am thinking your unit might be wired in a similar manner.

Similar but there are a few differences.

If my coach battery is OFF, the Generator will not start. This is true from Remote Gen Switch, the EC-30 Control switch or direct at the Onan 5500. I think I am good there as that is what is expected.

What I have learned, (from trial and error) is that given I can turn my Inverter Remote or direct at Unit switch "On" when Coach Batteries are OFF, it will only continue to provide power to the Inverter circuits for 30 - 40 minutes to which it will then Shutdown, once it Shutdowns after the delay, it will NOT turn back on until the Coach Batteries have been turn back on.

I have call in to Magnum Energy to understand WHY as Winnebago's Support does not seem to know and there is NOTHING in the wiring diagram that can explain why. As far as I know it could be unintentional feature that actually is a benefit from my perspective. As it turns out my batteries will NOT drain when Coach Battery is turn OFF even if I leave Inverter on, all 3 TVs and even the fridge running because 30- 40 minutes later all of it will shutdown)

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Similar but there are a few differences.

If my coach battery is OFF, the Generator will not start. This is true from Remote Gen Switch, the EC-30 Control switch or direct at the Onan 5500. I think I am good there as that is what is expected.

What I have learned, (from trial and error) is that given I can turn my Inverter Remote or direct at Unit switch "On" when Coach Batteries are OFF, it will only continue to provide power to the Inverter circuits for 30 - 40 minutes to which it will then Shutdown, once it Shutdowns after the delay, it will NOT turn back on until the Coach Batteries have been turn back on.

I have call in to Magnum Energy to understand WHY as Winnebago's Support does not seem to know and there is NOTHING in the wiring diagram that can explain why. As far as I know it could be unintentional feature that actually is a benefit from my perspective. As it turns out my batteries will NOT drain when Coach Battery is turn OFF even if I leave Inverter on, all 3 TVs and even the fridge running because 30- 40 minutes later all of it will shutdown)

While it may seem strange, even unintentional, it seems to be a nice built-in failsafe...

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

While it may seem strange, even unintentional, it seems to be a nice built-in failsafe...

Thanks Wyatt. I agree.

All,

I was able to talk to Magnum Energy today. They confirmed that the CSW 1012 Inverter I have DOES NOT have the ability to generate AC power for 30 minutes after shutoff of 12v power source.

So this means this phenomenon / feature can only be explained by Winnebago Engineering; as it is becoming obvious the Customer Service reps can not explain how it is wired. While the drawings show both Inverter and Battery installations, neither show details about how the wires are run across the coach and back to the battery, let alone how they may or may interact with Battery Isolation Relay or Solenoid.

Maybe it is some proprietary design and they don't wish to share? During interim Magnum Energy suggest it is either a capacitor, relay, or a timer between the Inverter? It would have to be a pretty big Capacitor to run TV and Outdoor fridge for 30 minutes?

Any help or ideas for next steps is appreciated.

I acknowledge the end result is a positive benefit, and I don't want to burn any bridges with Winnebago; but I really would like to know how and why it works as it does.

[JLUSoCal]

So I'm getting ready to swap out my inverter.

Found that the connection between my inverter and the inverter's remote panel has what I would guess is a 12-volt connection as shown below. Basically, the 6 pin from the inverter comes to this device, then is connected via a 4 pin to the panel that is mounted inside the motorhome. I did NOT pull back the shrink wrap and I cannot see where that red wire goes but have to believe it's what disconnects my inverter with the battery switch off.