2020 Factory workmanship issues

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Elkman

Leisure Travel Vans is better in nearly every respect than Winnebago and this is reflected in the waiting list for buyers that is 3 times as long as those for a Winnebago.

I am not taking issue with your comment about LTV making better RVs than Winnebago, but I think that the waiting time for an LTV is more about how few they make than how good they are, and I also think there is also a "I am in the club" feeling about owning an LTV.

I suspect that if Winnebago made as few Navions as LTV makes Murphy Bed models (their most popular) the waiting list for the Navions would be much longer than the list for LTV Murphy beds.

[rprochnow]

We looked closely at each of the LTV Unity floor plans, and were fortunate enough to have an LTV dealership within 90 minutes of our house last May - and they still had a few units that we could look at in stock.

The Murphy Bed model has a very large bathroom/shower in the back and a larger TV. But there isn't much living space - only dining for 2 - seatbelts for 2 - and no overcab. The 24D has more flexibility.

The FX is closer to the 24D - with the rear seating area and a dinette at the murphy bed. But it still sleeps only 2 - and has seatbelts for 2.

The Rear Lounge is an interesting floor plan with a rear murphy bed/lounge and a split bathroom. And it does have seat belts for 4. But the living area is small - relying on the rotated cab seats to provide extra seating - with a small shared table. They claim you can sleep 4 - but that's using a bed that straddles the dining seats and cab seats...

We liked the interior design and finishing touches better on the LTV Unity models than View.

But like any RV purchase decision - there are trade-offs - it's unlikely we'll find any specific model or floor plan that meets goals 100%...

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by rprochnow

it's unlikely we'll find any specific model or floor plan that meets goals 100%...

That is the truth!

We have been looking for one of those RVs with 2 bathrooms, 2 bedrooms, a Queen size bed that does not need a slide, a full kitchen with microwave and oven, CCC of 2500 pounds, capable of towing 7000 pounds and getting 25 mpg, all in a 24 foot package.

No luck so far ...

[Marine359]

Just wait for a year and you’ll be able to buy a 24 footer with hybrid engine that gets 45mpg, has a cc of 3,000 lbs, and a tow rating of 10,000 lbs. price will be about $750,000.

[SeeTheUSA]

Gotta wonder why someone with such a dim view of Winnebago and a glowing testimonial for some other brand would buy a Winnebago. Poor planning and execution, perhaps.

Darn.

We like our Winnebago.

[Elkman]

With the extremely high demand for RVs of all types the buyer is going to either wait or make compromises with their choices. The warranty from Winnebago is nearly worthless if there is a factory defect in design or workmanship involved and that is not unusual for any manufacturer of anything. There are very rare exceptions and it is great when it happens but I know better than to expect a manufacturer to step up and admit there is a problem and proactively fix it. Toyota is the rare exception and probably a key reason why they are now the largest auto manufacturer in the world.

What I would have appreciated from Winnebago was a spec sheet to listed all the components including model numbers for each year motorhome. If something is changed for 2020 or 2021 it would be nice to know what was changed and why and whether this corrected a defect or was done for marketing and may introduce a great chance of something failing.

There are things like the stovetop that I would love to change out but I don't even know where to start to determine what could be put in place of the current 1 gas and 1 induction model in our Navion. The roof cap for the solar is a poor choice but then Winnebago went cheap and decided to simply install the Zamp 200W kit.

I was glad that the inverter was upgraded to a 2000W one but that was offset by the crazy TV setup in the 24D that is as Rube Goldberg a design as I have encountered. The RV industry is way behind the times in providing Wifi and digital TVs and the means to easily upgrade components by the owner. Maybe it is the location of the company or maybe it is time they brought in new blood for product development. I appreciate that they are very small company but good design is not a matter of cost but of leadership from the top of the organization.

[rprochnow]

WBO did add an upgrade to the TV setup for late 2021 models - adding a blu-ray player that has access to smart TV apps plus can serve as a router along with the soundbar previously offered.

Though, we prefer the solution we implemented in our early 2021 View - replacing the basic 32" 720p HD dumb TV with a 32" 4K smart TV with a JBL 5.0 7 speaker Dolby Atmos soundbar - and using either our 5G hotspot or our Winegard Connect 2.0 as the local router.

WBO has also shifted to using rigid solar panels in the later 2021 Views (ours 2021 came with the flex panels). WBO wasn't alone in using the flex panels - it appears RV manufacturers didn't consider the long term impact of having those panels mounted on RV roofs - which is causing designs to shift to the rigid panels, mounted above and not on the roofs.

The induction/gas cooktop is the True Induction TI-1+1B (1 induction/1 gas burner). The company also sells a two gas burner cooktop TI-2GT. According to the online manual (page 11) it looks like the TI-2GT may be able to fit the same cutout as the TI-1+1B, so it may be possible to do a drop-in replacement.

What we found with the TV is that WBO designs their cabinetry to fit the components they are installing. The TV door is built specifically for the ATYME TV, making it more challenging to mount a different TV. Same may be true for the cooktop, though it looks like the manufacturer may have a 2 gas burner replacement that may work.

Not sure about the "Rube Goldberg" design for the TV setup - what WBO has done isn't unusual. Though I wish when they offered an "entertainment" upgrade, that they'd also provide an option to replace the cheap ATYME TV with a 4K smart TV with streaming apps.

And, as for the soundbar, the one they are using is only two channels - and basically is just overcoming the poor sound volume from the ATYME TV. The Samsung TV we have is twice as loud, and probably provides sound quality similar to the 2 channel JBL soundbar WBO is using. But not anywhere close to the sound quality we get with the 7 speaker JBL 5.0 we just installed.

I agree that Toyota and Lexus build good vehicles and have provided us great support after sale. We've also had great experience with the 3 EV's we've purchased from Tesla.

However, the same has been true with Winnebago and Lichtsinn - so far. When we've had issues, WBO has stood behind their warranty and fixed everything without any resistance.

WBO has made several choices that we wish had been different. For example, they continue to use the very basic One Place controller that has crude tank readings (E, 1/3, 2/3, F) - instead of using something like the SeeLevel II that provides % readings. Or using a monitor that also provides bluetooth/app support - something present on other RVs - and should be included in WBO's top-tier Class C models.

But we knew what we were getting when we made the purchase - and if there's something we don't like, we'll consider upgrading after purchase (which we've already done).

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Just wait for a year and you’ll be able to buy a 24 footer with hybrid engine that gets 45mpg, has a cc of 3,000 lbs, and a tow rating of 10,000 lbs. price will be about $750,000.

At that cost I can only afford perhaps the first 2 feet of the RV.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Elkman

The roof cap for the solar is a poor choice but then Winnebago went cheap and decided to simply install the Zamp 200W kit.

Yes, but then at least you can call Zamp and get support. One of the (non-Winnebago) RVs we looked at had a Thor Manufacturing (not to be confused with the Thor RV company) solar controller. See here.

It looks nice and has an extensive setup menu, but the manual is less than helpful and you can not get any support. Apparently no one at the US "support" location seems to know anything about how to set it up and what the values are supposed to represent. And the promises that "someone will get back to you" seem to be someone's idea of a joke.

[Jim Bob]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Good luck with the new dealer. Most of us are much happier never going to any dealer for service. We either fix it ourselves or find a trustworthy independent repair person/shop.

And, just so you know... Lemon Laws apply to automobiles not RVs.

In Georgia the Lemon Law does apply to the cab and drivers compartment of a motor home. I have a 2014 Meridian that has had a water leak in the drivers compartment since I took it on the test drive at the dealer. We were told the rain water was from the slide topper when the slide was retracted because they had a heavy thunderstorm come through just hours before we arrived.
I am no rookie and I bought my first new 2000 Horizon and drove it for 13 years. I know for a fact you will have issues with a new unit so I was assured this issue would be taken care of at the PDI.
The leak continues every time we encountered rain both while driving or set up on a campsite. I kept records of all repair attempts, emails with Winnebago, and video of the water leaking in. They blamed me for not maintaining the sealant. The dealership inspected all seams and applied sealant several times in the first year. they did a seal-tech test to find possible leaks, applied more sealant and the next trip water still poured into the cap and onto the dash. I was in contact with the regional service rep through all this and he recommended another dealer 4 hours away with a great service department so I took it there, showed them the videos and pictures and pointed out exactly where the water was coming in.
I left the coach with them for a week and in that time they preformed the Seal- tech test several times and said they had found and repaired the problem.
I took the coach home and packed up for a week stay in Tampa for the Super show and it rained and the water poured in the same place. I took a video as we left the campsite and called the service rep.
From there we filed a final attempt to repair notice with Winnebago and they opted to take the coach back to the factory and repair the coach.
They had the coach for about 30 days and returned the coach to Georgia.
We had a few trips over the next few months with no problems the few times it rained. I wrote a nice thank you email to Winnebago and then It happened again. Same leak, same place. We were heart sick.
We were still in the one year after finale repair attempt period so we asked for a replacement coach.
This is getting long and I know people get bored with the details but long story short, we won our case at arbitration , Winnebago refused to do the right thing and replace the coach. they got their attorney to appeal the case all the way to the Georgia Supreme court. We won every appeal and are now waiting for our new coach. its been over 4 years since we have been on the road.
We have supported Winnebago as members of the WIT club since 2002 and enjoyed this lifestyle and the people we have met. My wife has health issues and relies on the motor home to travel and visit family. Sad story

[Elkman]

Lemon laws were enacted in an attempt to provide recourse for consumers who get stiffed by dealers and by auto manufacturers. With an RV the coach is built on a chassis with an engine and drivetrain manufacturered by another company that covers mechanical issues.

There is always the option of filing a lawsuit as an individual but tougher to do if the manufacturer and the dealer are located in states other than your own. In general with lawsuits the only people to come out ahead are the attorneys but it may be ones only option.

This is also why when choosing which manufacturer from which to buy a product I research how the company responds to their customers' problems. Some comppnaies are great but most are mediocre at best and some are terrible.