2020 Factory workmanship issues

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Tom Ficca

The list goes on and on

Wow. That is a big list.

Sorry to hear about your issues and hope you get them resolved. I would have thought that an expensive RV like the Forza would be better built.

[LCJ]

Originally Posted by Paulbrady

has anyone who bought a new winnebago has quality issues with their Rv, we have a 2021 View 24D on order, and have heard many stories of lack of quality control from the factory, have you had problems with your new rv and what problems were they, thanks

I bought a new 2019 Winnebago Vista about ten months ago. It's been back to the dealer four times and needs to be serviced again. The quality of the furniture, components, fit, and finish, etc. is mediocre and very disappointing.

[1237dmctlc]

Sorry to here about all these issues sounds like the problems I had with my previous Class A Gasser from FR a 2018 31L5 we bought new...spent the first two years in the shop 60% or more with doors falling off, slides wouldn't go out... then couldn't get them back in...both ACs leaking inside all multiple fixes plus many more things yet problems still were there after spending months in the shop with even FR working with the dealer. Only after i elevated it yo the Director for FRs warranty dept. Did he allow me to go someplace else down in Florida who finally fixed things right...small RV place. Only to trade it in for what I always wanted a DP..."a 2018 Forza 38W" .I'll never buy new again and I'm hoping the previous owner had better luck with mine. The day we saw it right after the owner walked off it as he traded up to a 45' tandem axle. Said he wanted something bigger. Though its in already with a leveler issue after several trips...

[Goodspike]

I was just out again in my trailer after a nearly a 6 month absence, and thinking about this thread.

So far the only issue I've had is leaking front doors, which I fixed myself. That did damage one piece of interior trim, and I'll ask Winnebago to fix it when I take it in. I've done a fair amount of digging around during winterizing, and haven't found a lot of construction debris.

One thing I'm very happy with is the shower. Given the extra hot water the water heaters produce it's nice to have a shower valve that is easy to set and which doesn't change temperature when you turn off the water at the shower head.

My one disappointment is the LED interior lights. They are way too bright! I'm going to have to replace at least one or two.

Oh, and those bumper end caps which keep wanting to come out, they are a pain. And the cheap lug nuts.

[Satx View]

We bought a 2021 View 24D on June 2, 2020. When we took delivery, we and the dealer, noted that the entry door did not seal properly. Their people partially adjusted it, but you could still see some daylight at the top and bottom corners. That was just one of the problems we've encountered.

We live about 1,000 miles from the selling dealer and were leaving on a long trip in it immediately. The selling dealer suggested taking it to our local dealer at the end of the trip to have the door situation resolved and thought it was probably an improperly made door that Winnebago would have to deal with. (This is the new European door they are now using) They adjusted enough to live with on that trip and get us on our way, but we did take it to our local dealer when we returned. They basically rebuilt the door and when we picked it up it would tightly seal. We left on another long trip and a few hundred miles into the trip, their adjustments failed and the gaps were even larger than before. Soon air was whistling through the the gaps at an astounding sound level. We had to get weather stripping from Home Depot to try to seal it enough to stop the wind noise and then had to stuff kitchen towels around it. If you compare the door to the opening it is supposed to seal into, with weatherstripping on each part, it doesn't even look like it would ever fit together correctly. So, back it goes for more work and we're trying to reach someone at Winnebago to discuss the situation.

Here's a list of some of the issues we had after the first trip (there were more that I left out):

1. The entry door situation above
2. The manual lock on the entry door would not stay locked if you pushed it into lock position. The only way to keep it locked was to lock with the electric lock button on the chassis doors.
3. The motor on the awning burned out and had to be replaced
4. The black water drain pipe is not leveled correctly and after draining, some black water remains between the valve and the dust cover.
5. The control unit on the automatic steps had to be replaced.
6. There two hydraulic leaks on the levelers.
7. After you lock the doors in the evening, every few minutes you hear a click noise in the entry door and the red light in the SOS call system in the overhead lights for a second. This goes on for several hours. One day when it happened, it called SOS for help, all by itself.

After the first long trip, it is going back to the local dealer for:
1. Try number 3 to get the door to seal correctly.
2. Now the wind sensor on the awning is not working.
3. The black water drain still needs to be adjusted.
4. There is a recall for the strut on the entry door.

Now for the Mercedes part of the story:

After the first 4,000 mile trip, we first took it to the Winnebago dealer where they worked on it for 3 weeks. On way home from there, it started making this hammering noise from the driver side front wheel area. It was speed related, very loud, and sounded like metal on metal hammering. We were about 10 minutes from the MB dealer, so we went directly there, after pulling over to see if something was actually loose and visible. The noise stopped after about 5 minutes and I think the dealer thought I was nuts when I tried to describe it to them. They kept it for 3 days and couldn't find anything wrong.

So we went on the next long trip and several times during that trip it would go through this hammering situation. The last time, I got a good video with the noise and you can see the instrument cluster vibrate. I have sent the video to our MB service adviser and they haven't come up with anything yet.

My other issues with MB are the lane departure and crosswind assists. On the first trip, it would sometimes feel like you were totally losing control of the vehicle. The rear would go into a skid. MB said it was normal, but my research indicated there was a software update that would cure it. I convinced our MB guys to do an update and it did help some. It was better on the recent trip, but it still is unnerving when it kicks in. It is way too aggressive and doesn't feel safe. I'm used to driving German vehicles with even more safety features than this and they don't feel scary like this.

Bottom line, yes, I'm feeling like there are some quality issues. The service adviser at our local Winnebago dealer said he and their technicians hadn't seen a new Winnebago with so many problems.

At this point, I'd be hard pressed to buy another one, although we do really like it, warts and all. But that was a lot of money to pay for something with these issues. We've just hit 90 days since purchase.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Satx View

7. After you lock the doors in the evening, every few minutes you hear a click noise in the entry door and the red light in the SOS call system in the overhead lights for a second.

Not at all the same thing, but the Ford based motorhomes I rented had a really poor electric door lock design. My cats would frequently unlock the doors standing on the armrests to look out the window. I don't think we made it through a single night without them unlocking the doors until we figured out what was going on. The cats were probably hoping for someone to break in and beat us up for taking them on an RV trip!

[Satx View]

Great story! We travel with a cat, too, and if he and the dog figure out how to mess with the doors, we're really in trouble!

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Satx View

Great story! We travel with a cat, too, and if he and the dog figure out how to mess with the doors, we're really in trouble!

Actually I'm trying to figure out what to do with the screen door latch on my trailer--the clear round plastic thing you can push down from inside to open the door if you have the main door open. I could see my cat easily striking at that and opening the door. There's no way to lock that--actually maybe I should double check the the latch itself--it may have a lock. The plastic thing doesn't have a lock.

My other cat story is that my large 15 pound (but not fat) cat can get under the bathroom door to get to his catbox if the door happens to be closed. He can barely squeeze under, but he can do it because the door is cut so high.

[1237dmctlc]

Well I'm not sure but the moral of the stories I'm seeing is not to bring cats camping they're to darn smart. My dog Shadow is pretty smart too but I don't think he can reach any door knobs or locks being he's a cocker spaniel and is a small dog...though he has figure out how to open the shades up...:-)

[DesertRatt]

My impression of our new-to-us 2004 Minnie Winnie Ford is that it is very well made by RV standards. We previously bought a new 2011 Airstream off the dealer lot and were horrified at the bad design and poor construction. Like, particle board wall pieces merely stapled into place, and running wires through rough cut holes and so on. Pretty on the outside, garbage on the inside.

We have been renovating our Minnie Winnie, with new window coverings as an example, and I was very impressed at how well the interior was constructed - real screws going into real wood, at the right intervals, right size and actually accessible. The little 12" tube TV mount in the dinette was thing of woodworking beauty. Shame to have to take it apart to put a new flat screen in there. It was like so over-kill and every piece perfectly cut and assembled I was shocked. High quality sliding hardware - still works perfectly.

Of course, I am no fool about this. I know that RVs are like boats - - money pits - that require constant fixing and maintenance. If you are not a handyman type, RVing is probably not your thing. Of all the RV trips we've made in the past 10 years, I can't recall any that did not involve some "MacGyver" work along the way.

An RV COULD be made that has more reliability and sturdy service, but it would only happen if they backed way off on superficial decor options, and invested instead in better sub-systems, and better engineering and tooling. There's way, way too much cut-to-fit wood, and too many "cover all sins" material that hides poor workmanship. Imagine of airliners were built this way! They be dropping out of the sky every day.

More "space ship" less "house" would be a good start.

[Mwinky]

I have a new 2019 winnebago minnie plus 27RBDS Had for 8 months they have it about 70 days and still having trouble. Poor quality and workmanship been talking to Winnebago told them i would like a new camper since this is a piece of JUNK

[TJFogelberg]

We bought a new 2017 Minnie Winnie 31D (Class C) in Oct 2016. Like so many others, we made numerous trips to the Factory in Forest City and 1 or 2 to the dealer in Duluth MN to get various issues resolved. After about 2 years, everything is "good to go". It was definitely a frustrating experience but the upside was good service (mostly at no charge) in Forest City. We're in it for the long haul, so glad we persevered as I (LOL) really enjoy the RV lifestyle. Build into your plans unexpected maintenance (heavy) the first 2 years with a leveling off after that period as you get to know your RV and gradually get things the way you want them.

Forest City is worth the trip. You can give them a list of about 6 items and they'll work diligently to get everything right. Obviously, if you can do this while under warranty, it won't hurt your pocketbook as much.

[1237dmctlc]

Originally Posted by Mwinky

I have a new 2019 winnebago minnie plus 27RBDS Had for 8 months they have it about 70 days and still having trouble. Poor quality and workmanship been talking to Winnebago told them i would like a new camper since this is a piece of JUNK

Unfortunately I don't think getting a new one will eliminate the chance of not having the same or other issues. Like others have said you have to be handy to resolve those issues you can do yourself and persistent to resolve those you can't like "TJFogelberg" and other's like him including myself. Not saying everyone has issues that require many visits and countless days back at the dealer and even the manufacturer to resolve but as I've said so many times before I look at the RV industry in the same position the American Car Industry was in the 70's and 80's until they had competition and high quality cars coming from overseas. I forced the American Car Industry to start producing quality cars otherwise Toyota and other's would've wiped them out completely. RV industry needs that type of quality competition to force them to step up there game to survive. Need to modernize their process and hold those accountable for the poor quality we are seeing today and not just from their suppliers but their own manufacturing process. Some are manufacturers are recognizing it but right now the industry is booming from the pandemic so don't think they'll make change when they can even keep up with this high demand. Hopefully they will continue to improve into the future. Sorry I'll get off my high horse since it really doesn't help you now. In short you have some choices to make that I mentioned at the beginning. Another choice that I made this year was not to buy new when I was looking to upgrade to a Diesel Pusher. Though I've had some issues they've been with the suppliers of items installed not the coach itself.

[DesertRatt]

RV manufacturing has doubled their shipments in 10 years. From about 250k units in 2010 to over 500K units in 2020. So, as 1237 said, no real incentive to improve anything if you can keep selling what you are doing now.

One workable strategy is to buy a used unit and then modify it to your standards. RVs depreciate like rocks falling off a cliff. So, getting a used one for 1/3 the price of new, and then sinking another 1/3 into retrofitting with quality might be smart.

My RV sold new for $100K in 2004. I paid $23k for it, and I have put about $7,500 into it in 2 months. Radically improved the suspension, put the best tires in the world on it, had all systems serviced, redid much of the interior. I'm willing to put in another $5k to get it "just right". That will only put my investment at $35k - a small fraction of a new 30-footer. And, I've got a rig that rides better and is safer than a new one.

[TJFogelberg]

Quoting from Desertratt "One workable strategy is to buy a used unit and then modify it to your standards. "

We tried that. Bought a used (13 year old Lazy Daze) in 2012 from the original owner. It quickly turned into a money pit. We enjoyed the RV, but with limited mechanical know how, were making major repairs every year. Initial visit to Ford turned up significant and costly repairs to the chassis. Then it needed new tires almost immediately. A few years into the thing, the fridge died on a trip (it was 16 years old at that point). That was about $2200. Then the awning broke. A new one was $900 and it cost about $300 to have it installed. There were plumbing issues (toilet leak).

If you have extensive mechanical know how, you can maybe fix stuff yourself at lower cost. It is difficult and costly to find competent service for your RV, whether it be the house or the chassis.

So we sold the Lazy Daze in 2016 and bought the new Minnie Winnie which had more issues than we bargained for but the overall quality and features are very good and now that the issues are resolved, it's been mostly smooth sailing for years 3 and 4 of ownership. (Knock on wood).

The depreciation issue is like buying a new car. But if you "buy and hold", it becomes less of an issue as you get many years of use out of your "investment" and recoup the original cost over a long period of time. I have an 18 year old HOnda CRV and a 12 year old TSX that continue to provide reliable, trouble free service. Am hoping for a similar experience with the Ford 450 and Minnie Winnie "house".

The Ford 450 on the 1999 Lazy Daze was a solid vehicle that had about 139,000 on it when we sold it. Those initial repairs were mostly due to poor maintenance by the original owner. Once we got over that initial hump, the chassis was super reliable and handled great on the road.

Lazy Daze builds a nice unit (but at a premium price) and the units do tend to start falling apart after about 10-15 years. We had a hinge break off on the closet door. The drawer glides (2) broke. The plastic window latches broke off. The exterior aluminum siding started to have major hairline cracks at the joints where they were screwed together. The toilet leaked and was a devil to get fixed. The fiberglass covers that cover the rear tires had latches that broke so the cover would flap in the wind.

[DesertRatt]

Good report TJ. Yes, there's a bit of risk in getting used, and it definitely helps if you can do some of the work. And yes, finding good RV repair isn't too easy.

I can do most things on the house side, but I leave chassis stuff to the pros with a lift and air tools. For example, when I had shocks and sway bars installed, I used a brake shop for the labor. I bought the parts.

I was also lucky to find a unit that even though was 16 years old, it only had 12,000 miles on the chassis. The tires had full tread.....but were cracked badly.

RVs and Money go well together!

[EdIAm]

Originally Posted by Satx View

We bought a 2021 View 24D on June 2, 2020. ...

Bottom line, yes, I'm feeling like there are some quality issues. The service adviser at our local Winnebago dealer said he and their technicians hadn't seen a new Winnebago with so many problems.

At this point, I'd be hard pressed to buy another one, although we do really like it, warts and all. But that was a lot of money to pay for something with these issues. We've just hit 90 days since purchase.

I just ordered the Navion 24D last week.
I’m wondering if I made a mistake.
The purchase agreement Clearly states that my deposit is fully refundable for any reason whatsoever.

On the plus side , the selling dealer is just 20 minutes away. Guess I can take some consolation from that. I’ll Just drop it off at the dealership any time I’m not using it.


Ed.
Rethinking his decision.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DesertRatt

So, as 1237 said, no real incentive to improve anything if you can keep selling what you are doing now.

I would disagree. Higher quality means lower warranty costs and as it is now the cost of warranty service must be pretty high for some models. There is plenty of reason for the manufacturers to improve their quality, and I assume those with an eye to the future and to their costs have taken that into account.

One of the problems is that many of the quality issues are not within the ability of the manufacturer to fix via a quality control upgrade. Of all of the problems we have had with our Winnebago Fuse the 2 most annoying were a compressor refrigerator that would not stay cold and an issue with the diesel-DEF interface modules. The first was a Norcold issue and the second a Ford issue, neither of which could be addressed by Winnebago.

[Frazier5421]

So true. Ours is a complete failure of the AC . Come to find out the Coleman Mach is made by Airexcel. And WB has nothing to do with them. So working with this organization is a whole new level of pain....

[rprochnow]

Originally Posted by EdIAm

I just ordered the Navion 24D last week.
I’m wondering if I made a mistake.

We purchased our 2021 View 24D in early June, and while we've had a few minor issues, we haven't encountered any major problems - and are completely satisfied with our purchase.

We purchased our RV from Lichtsinn, 1000 miles away from us. And all we had was a video walkthrough prior to making the trip up to Iowa to make the purchase and drive the RV back home.

There was some anxiety - because we wouldn't get to see the RV in person until shortly before we paid for it - but everything worked out. If there were any issues, Lichtsinn addressed them before we got there, and we only found a few minor items, which they addressed before we left.

Also, forums have a tendency to overemphasize problems - since those owners are more likely to post their experiences. If Winnebago was having serious quality control issues with many vehicles, it's likely the forums would be covered with many, many, many complaints - which hasn't happened (at least so far).

That's not to say owners won't encounter a vehicle with major problems - that happens to Winnebago and every other manufacturer - with a (hopefully very) small percentage of vehicles sold with undetected, major issues...