Changing your own tire question

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by wyocamper

Well, color me stupid. Just a couple of weeks ago I swapped wheels between two cars and there were several lug nuts my impact just wasn't budging. Now that I think about it I bet I just grabbed a 2ah battery instead of using my 5ah one. Makes a pretty big difference.



DOH!

Lets rethink that. A battery AH rating equates to how long it will power the motor, the voltage is what pushes the amperes from the battery to the motor. Higher voltage = more push.
Assuming your batteries are all the same voltage, the only difference is how long it will power the motor = AH. That means you were right the first time.
This graphic is a visual explanation:

[wahoonc]

It will depend on the brand of tire and the size. There was a family-owned heavy equipment shop on the property. Most of the truck tires were done by hand, occasionally they had to break out the monster manual bead breaker. We also had "shotgun" tanks to blast the stubborn tires back onto the rim. I don't recall too many alloy wheels coming through. Most of the stuff was gravel trucks or garbage trucks.

Aaron

[bigb]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Lets rethink that. A battery AH rating equates to how long it will power the motor, the voltage is what pushes the amperes from the battery to the motor. Higher voltage = more push.
Assuming your batteries are all the same voltage, the only difference is how long it will power the motor = AH. That means you were right the first time.
This graphic is a visual explanation:

That's true of a resistive load but motors are inductive and will draw more current when voltage drops. I experience the same when using my cordless Milwaukee Sawzall, it has noticeably more power when using a high ah battery as opposed to a small one. A battery, just like any power source, will experience voltage drop under load. The bigger the load, the more the voltage will drop.

Inductive load: voltage drops> current rises>power (watts) remains unchanged (to a certain point)

Resistive load: voltage drops> current drops> power (watts) drops

[Ray,IN]

Thanks Brian. I thought the electric motors in hand equipment were something special, without brushes.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by jefflbi

About a month ago I had a flat tire due to a leaky TPMS transmitter cap. The TPMS never showed that the tire had zero pressure, it always read 99, but something told me to pull over and check, and sure enough my one dually tire had no air in it. Long story short, I called road side assistance to come and check the tire and all it needed was air. I watched what the tech was doing the whole time. He removed the tire from the rim with just a tire iron, checked it then put it back on, filled it with air, then using the tire iron again, was able to get it on the lug nuts and tighten it back up, lastly using a torque stick to get the lugs tightened to the proper torque without over tightening. This led me to thinking that I can do that as long as I have the right tools. So yesterday I bought a spare tire to keep with me on trips, and I talked to the guy at the tire shop about an impact gun that could do the job. He told me that he uses a Milwaulkee battery operation impact gun with a 6.0 amp battery to do those kind of jobs. I ordered one of those guns along with 2 batteries and now I'm just wondering about the torque stick........... I thought the roadside tech said the torque stick was over 400 ft/lbs, but I haven't been able to find one that goes that high, which makes me think I didn't hear him correctly. So my question is what is the right torque spec for my class A motor home.........
TIA

Setting aside the question of "torque sticks". I have to wonder about the training the tire tech had on inspecting tires that have been run flat.
- If your tires have steel body ply then there is a significant potential of injury by re-inflating a steel body tire due to the potential of a 'Zipper" failure.
- Also the tire that did not lose air had been operated for some unknown distance with 100% overload as the load that was carried by the tire that lost its air transferred it's load to the tire with air pressure. Can you show us any publication from any tire company that says it's OK to run a tire with 100% overload at highway speed?
- What training do you plan on getting that would allow you to "check" the inside of a tire to confirm that it was safe to mount, re-inflate and drive on?


If you google "Tire Explosion" you will find a number of videos showing what can happen when re-inflating a steel body tire that had been run flat. (Note that the tire industry says that any tire driven on after losing 20% or more of its air is considered to have been run flat) Some of the tire explosions seen in the videos show tires exploding outside a "safety cage" like this one. https://youtu.be/1VLhLcJJefo?si=EXjCgLF2wksBDRtf


This video has a number of examples. https://youtu.be/dKlJJqHFfoQ?si=6o036n5agonJcOVH




This video shows a "Zipper failure" inside a safety cage.


https://youtu.be/DYBGnLHpP0Q?si=wedy3sigTC-j4nMG

[dphorton]

Doesn’t your Chassis Owners Manual have the recommended Torque for your Wheels? I thought it did.

[HappiHenri]

Sorry - I totally agree with CREATIVPART about the need to include some key information about your rig. In reading your original. post I had no idea that you even had a Motorhome - could have been a travel trailer for all I could tell. And even if I knew you drove a MH that still does not answer the question of what size tires you have - because that makes all the difference. I saw in subsequent posts that you drive a Journey - so that helps. But I can only assume that you have 22.5" tires instead of 19"

In any case - assuming you have 22.5" tires then I can then assume that your tires require a lug nut torque of 475 ft/lbs - which is what the tires on my 38' Class A require (22.5" tires).

With that amount of torque you do not want to haul around a torque stick because you will be very unlikely to change your tires yourself. Tires that large weight >100lbs, and I doubt you even carry a spare around that large.

Anyway - there is another option removing/installing lug nuts for these large tires - a Torque Multiplier. I got one from Northern Tool to use on my MH, and it works great. It is a geared system that allows you to easily work with lug nuts since it has a 64:1 internal gear ratio. Comes in a nice, compact case. Here is the link for it:

https://www.northerntool.com/product...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

For my use it easily loosens my lug nuts using the included 33mm socket. For tightening lug nuts I use my small in/lb torque wrench to tighten my lug nuts to about 90 in/lbs through the torque multiplier. (475 ft/lbs = 5700 in/lbs. 5700 / 64 = 89 in/lbs)

This tool has helped me several times when I had to remove my tires to do some brake work - though the worse part of the job was in man-handling the tires on/off by myself - they are a bear to work with! I so not even need a large battery impact wrench any more.

Good luck!

[jefflbi]

Originally Posted by HappiHenri

Sorry - I totally agree with CREATIVPART about the need to include some key information about your rig. In reading your original. post I had no idea that you even had a Motorhome - could have been a travel trailer for all I could tell. And even if I knew you drove a MH that still does not answer the question of what size tires you have - because that makes all the difference. I saw in subsequent posts that you drive a Journey - so that helps. But I can only assume that you have 22.5" tires instead of 19"

In any case - assuming you have 22.5" tires then I can then assume that your tires require a lug nut torque of 475 ft/lbs - which is what the tires on my 38' Class A require (22.5" tires).

With that amount of torque you do not want to haul around a torque stick because you will be very unlikely to change your tires yourself. Tires that large weight >100lbs, and I doubt you even carry a spare around that large.

Anyway - there is another option removing/installing lug nuts for these large tires - a Torque Multiplier. I got one from Northern Tool to use on my MH, and it works great. It is a geared system that allows you to easily work with lug nuts since it has a 64:1 internal gear ratio. Comes in a nice, compact case. Here is the link for it:

https://www.northerntool.com/product...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

For my use it easily loosens my lug nuts using the included 33mm socket. For tightening lug nuts I use my small in/lb torque wrench to tighten my lug nuts to about 90 in/lbs through the torque multiplier. (475 ft/lbs = 5700 in/lbs. 5700 / 64 = 89 in/lbs)

This tool has helped me several times when I had to remove my tires to do some brake work - though the worse part of the job was in man-handling the tires on/off by myself - they are a bear to work with! I so not even need a large battery impact wrench any more.

Good luck!

Sorry, I did create a signature after creating this, and a few other posts. You can see my specs now. Although one person recommended posting a floor plan, I'm not sure how to make that happen........... and I'm a former IT guy!!!

But yes I do have 22.5 inch rims and you confirmed that I did not hear the roadside tech wrong when he said his torque stick was 400 and some odd lbs.......... Now the question is if I can find one..........

[jefflbi]

Originally Posted by dphorton

Doesn’t your Chassis Owners Manual have the recommended Torque for your Wheels? I thought it did.

You know, it most probably does, but I just haven't checked. And honestly I have a whole "info case" of documentation that came with this RV, and it can be time consuming............ I was thinking posting a question would be faster, also I'm doing multiple projects on the RV at the same time............

[jefflbi]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Setting aside the question of "torque sticks". I have to wonder about the training the tire tech had on inspecting tires that have been run flat.
- If your tires have steel body ply then there is a significant potential of injury by re-inflating a steel body tire due to the potential of a 'Zipper" failure.
- Also the tire that did not lose air had been operated for some unknown distance with 100% overload as the load that was carried by the tire that lost its air transferred it's load to the tire with air pressure. Can you show us any publication from any tire company that says it's OK to run a tire with 100% overload at highway speed?
- What training do you plan on getting that would allow you to "check" the inside of a tire to confirm that it was safe to mount, re-inflate and drive on?


If you google "Tire Explosion" you will find a number of videos showing what can happen when re-inflating a steel body tire that had been run flat. (Note that the tire industry says that any tire driven on after losing 20% or more of its air is considered to have been run flat) Some of the tire explosions seen in the videos show tires exploding outside a "safety cage" like this one. https://youtu.be/1VLhLcJJefo?si=EXjCgLF2wksBDRtf


This video has a number of examples. https://youtu.be/dKlJJqHFfoQ?si=6o036n5agonJcOVH




This video shows a "Zipper failure" inside a safety cage.


https://youtu.be/DYBGnLHpP0Q?si=wedy3sigTC-j4nMG

The good tire was not operated on for an unknown distance, it was approx 55 miles from my home to the parking lot I finally wound up at...........

As for the training of the tire tech, he told me he had been doing this job for at least 10 yrs. I would like to think he knows what he was doing and I'm sure his company is insured. And it was the roadside service that Coachnet sent out.............

I don't plan on getting any specific training other than watching others. I have 2 friends that are mechanics that work on buses, garbage trucks, dump trucks etc....... I've been getting information from them. I've been doing my own automotive for most of my life. I'm not afraid to take a shot at changing a tire if the need arises........ and worst comes to worst I will get roadside assistance, and they can install the tire that I already have on hand...............

My tires are Goodyear RV G670s, 275/70/22.5

[Twells]

Jeff,
Im with you....I as well would like to be able and change my own tire, at least have the knowledge to do.
Does anyone know if there is a site or something I can check in order to know what to do if the situation arrises?

[HappiHenri]

You are correct - usually the floor plan is irrelevant to many issues being discussed. Though it could be for some problems - such as slide issues. But for our tire discussion the FP is not necessary.

Thanks for your responses and input!

[HappiHenri]

Here is a link to a Youtube video which describes tire removal using the Torque Multiplier I mentioned. While most of the video deals with brake work the sections on tire removal / installation are interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puw8lrY0jaQ&t=1002s

[Twells]

Thank you....happy travels!

[deckape]

I'll just wait for a roadside tire truck to show up . Don't want the wife to call 911 for a broken arm or worst from me trying to get a 22.5 tire off it's rim . Fire up the gen ,turn on the tv and wait .

[Bobn1957]

Originally Posted by wyocamper

Well, color me stupid. Just a couple of weeks ago I swapped wheels between two cars and there were several lug nuts my impact just wasn't budging. Now that I think about it I bet I just grabbed a 2ah battery instead of using my 5ah one. Makes a pretty big difference.



DOH!

Are you talking about a quarter-inch impact generally used to drive screws or a half-inch 600 or 1000-foot-pound impact gun? The quarter-inch one won't touch an RV lug nut!