Transporting Inverter Generator

[OKminnie]

Jim- Why is it not considered safe to have AGM batteries in the pass thru? We had a 40’ Sabre sailboat that we carried 780 ah of group 31 AGM batteries ( I think 6) in an enclosed locker without any problems. Regards- Corky

[Marine359]

Hiya OKminnie,
It’s my understanding that any lead acid battery can produce outgassing, which are toxic gases. Didn’t know you had AGMs. AGMs are not susceptible to outgassing because gases are absorbed in the mat. I had an Ericsson 32 and my Marine deep cycle was located in the forward part of the engine compartment, and there was ventilation to the outside. In my 2108ds, the pass thru which is not ventilated runs right under the Murphy bed. Although AGMs are said to be safe for indoor use (most motorhomes and 5th wheels use them in an ventilated interior compartment), LiFePo4 batteries have zero danger except catching fire if overcharged. Of course, that can also happen with AGM batteries. Quality inverter chargers and converter chargers will not overcharge. However, if the charger circuit fails, and you go to sleep when the battery is already fully charged, then there could be a problem. I plan to shut down charging on my inverter charger before retiring for the night. On venting, both AGM and LiFePo4 should be vented, but I believe the lithium to be far less susceptible to failure than AGM. https://rvnerds.com/2017/11/01/elect...-need-venting/. Others can probably provide better input on AGMs, as my experience with them is limited. Cheers.

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by OKminnie

Jim- Why is it not considered safe to have AGM batteries in the pass thru? We had a 40’ Sabre sailboat that we carried 780 ah of group 31 AGM batteries ( I think 6) in an enclosed locker without any problems. Regards- Corky

BTW Corky,
Sabre 40 a beautiful well designed and safe boat. Always wanted one for myself, but my budget couldn’t stretch far enough and still send 3 kids to college. Lol

[90mtx]

So to reply to the original poster about carrying an inverter generator, here are my experiences with my 1800BH and a Westinghouse iGen 2600. I use a Micro Air 364, which is like a soft start, but much better. Most soft start setups are just a larger capacitor that stores electrical capacity, the Micro Air 364 is basically a small computer that slowly ramps up the the compressor to full speed, so it doesn't start at Full Locked Amps. Sweet set up and easily worked to start and run my 15k btu AC at 4000' in El Paso, Tx during the summer. So now I have the electrical ability, I needed a spot to put it, so I called Winnebago and asked what the weight limit was for the rear bumper, they told me 75lbs, which is the mainly for the spare tire. My initial thought was to just put the the Mount-N-Lock Safety Struts to support the bumper with the additional weight and use their Cargo Box Tray Supports as a base for a custom sound proof box to mount everything. Well, reaching out to Mount-N-Lock to make sure I was ordering the correct parts, they told me they didn't recommend my plan because of how Winnebago mounted the bumper to the frame. I will attach a picture they sent me of a bumper failure, so if it happens you really are in a bad spot. I bounced some ideas off them and they said they were developing a reinforcement for our type of bumper support. I worked with them for, giving them some measurements and recommendations/thoughts and they made a prototype set up, which works great! I moved from El Paso to Virginia last summer and it went 2000 miles with no issues. I did a visual check at each fuel stop and checked the torque on the bolts each night. Nothing was loose. Mount-N-Lock doesn't list them currently, but they told me they are including them if you ask for them when you buy their Safety Struts. Their Safety Struts support the bumper, but our design will rip our the short section of C Channel that the bumper is welded to and bolted to the trailer frame. I still haven't built my planned box, but that is on the list of winter projects.

Jonathan

[Fasttimes]

Originally Posted by Fasttimes

I see in the Q&A for the 2500w that they claim to have them back in stores by beginning of April??? WTH?

Just ordered one on Amazon, supposedly will arrive around 2/15. $693 delivered. They have the 2000w version I already have discounted to $636. Figured the 500w extra was worth the small increase.

[Fred 2106DS]

Originally Posted by 90mtx

So to reply to the original poster about carrying an inverter generator, here are my experiences with my 1800BH and a Westinghouse iGen 2600. I use a Micro Air 364, which is like a soft start, but much better. Most soft start setups are just a larger capacitor that stores electrical capacity, the Micro Air 364 is basically a small computer that slowly ramps up the the compressor to full speed, so it doesn't start at Full Locked Amps. Sweet set up and easily worked to start and run my 15k btu AC at 4000' in El Paso, Tx during the summer. So now I have the electrical ability, I needed a spot to put it, so I called Winnebago and asked what the weight limit was for the rear bumper, they told me 75lbs, which is the mainly for the spare tire. My initial thought was to just put the the Mount-N-Lock Safety Struts to support the bumper with the additional weight and use their Cargo Box Tray Supports as a base for a custom sound proof box to mount everything. Well, reaching out to Mount-N-Lock to make sure I was ordering the correct parts, they told me they didn't recommend my plan because of how Winnebago mounted the bumper to the frame. I will attach a picture they sent me of a bumper failure, so if it happens you really are in a bad spot. I bounced some ideas off them and they said they were developing a reinforcement for our type of bumper support. I worked with them for, giving them some measurements and recommendations/thoughts and they made a prototype set up, which works great! I moved from El Paso to Virginia last summer and it went 2000 miles with no issues. I did a visual check at each fuel stop and checked the torque on the bolts each night. Nothing was loose. Mount-N-Lock doesn't list them currently, but they told me they are including them if you ask for them when you buy their Safety Struts. Their Safety Struts support the bumper, but our design will rip our the short section of C Channel that the bumper is welded to and bolted to the trailer frame. I still haven't built my planned box, but that is on the list of winter projects.

Jonathan

Jonathan, thanks for the Mount-N-Lock update. I talked with them 3 years ago at the Hershey RV show and they didn't have a remedy for our bumper situation. Good to hear they now have something that works.

[Marine359]

My new Champion 2500w dual fuel purchased from Home Depot for $540 will arrive in a couple of days. Got his one instead of the 3400 model due to weight. If I want to run my ac, I’ll need to either purchase an East Start for $300, or a second generator for $540 plus parallel kit for $80. Interested in hearing your input on which course will be smarter in the long run. Appreciate your advice.

[Fasttimes]

Originally Posted by Marine359

My new Champion 2500w dual fuel purchased from Home Depot for $540 will arrive in a couple of days. Got his one instead of the 3400 model due to weight. If I want to run my ac, I’ll need to either purchase an East Start for $300, or a second generator for $540 plus parallel kit for $80. Interested in hearing your input on which course will be smarter in the long run. Appreciate your advice.

That's a great price! How'd your score that? I see it listed on HD site now for $600. Might just cancel my Amazon order right now and go with HD, even at $600 it's better than the deal I got.



Regarding whether to go with the Easy start or second gen I would personally go with the second generator and parallel kit. I've read good things about the Easy Start set up but I just don't like the idea of pushing the limit on my AC. Too much risk for me, but then again I dry camp where I need AC about once a year. The two generator set up will work for me at home during Hurricane Season as well.

[Marine359]

Thanks. Power outages factor is n here. With two gens, I can put in a 50w backfeed circuit and run most home circuits off my home propane tank.

Scored the low price at HD with $599 price less $60 military discount.

[Fasttimes]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Thanks. Power outages factor is n here. With two gens, I can put in a 50w backfeed circuit and run most home circuits off my home propane tank.

Scored the low price at HD with $599 price less $60 military discount.

Nice! Just attempted to cancel the Amazon and they said no, but I can return which I get free with Prime, silly they want to eat that charge. Ordered from HD, will save $100 for the hassle. Thanks for the heads up!

I"m gong to order the parallel kit as well and see how it works out. Once I got them working in tandem and happy with my testing I guess I'll sell my 3400 dual-fuel.

I looked real hard at the Easy Start option, and still may put one in one day but my impression is that with the Easy Start and one generator I would be able to run the AC, but would be at the limit remaining wattage-wise to run other things. Also, there is debate that you could be shortening the life-span of your AC going that route, but not 100% sure that's the case. Just not worth the risk for me.

[Marine359]

Champion site recommends the 50amp parallel kit, but does not say whether the cheaper 30 amp kit will work. I emailed Champion on this five days ago and they haven’t answered. I suppose it would be better to have the 50amp kit for backfeed use. Also inquired about using trailer quick disconnect. No answer.

[Fasttimes]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Champion site recommends the 50amp parallel kit, but does not say whether the cheaper 30 amp kit will work. I emailed Champion on this five days ago and they haven’t answered. I suppose it would be better to have the 50amp kit for backfeed use. Also inquired about using trailer quick disconnect. No answer.

Yeah, it's not clear. When I use the Champion sites compatibility tool and match my 2000w dual fuel and 2500w dual fuel it shows both the 30amp and 50amp kit as options. But if you read the 50amp kits description it says for inverters 2800w and up???

30amp kit looks clean with the stacking option, but the 50amp as you say with ability to back-feed might be a better choice. Prices look the same from what I see. I think I might go with the 50amp and if it doesn't work as expected send back and get the 30amp.

[Marine359]

Good idea. Since I don’t need it right away, I’ll wait another few days for an answer from Champion. Will advise.

BTW, if you haven’t seen it, this links to backfeed interlock with UL approval: https://www.interlockkit.com/aboutus.asp

[Fasttimes]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Good idea. Since I don’t need it right away, I’ll wait another few days for an answer from Champion. Will advise.

BTW, if you haven’t seen it, this links to backfeed interlock with UL approval: https://www.interlockkit.com/aboutus.asp

Going through the Q&As of the 50amp kit on Amazon I saw a question about connecting two 2000w generators working with it and a person from Champion replied yes. I went ahead and ordered it since the price is pretty good and next day shipping, $70.



Won't have the generator I figure for a week but Amazon has variable pricing and could increase so figured I'd jump on it while it's pretty low.

[90mtx]

Jim,
So on which set up will work best for you, it really is personal preference and what your set up will allow. The Micro Air 364 is of course cheaper than a second generator, but it doesn't allow you to do much else. The Micro Air will make your HVAC unit last longer, because of the easier starting due to the ramp up it does. For me, I went that route, because I hardly have space for one generator either in my tow vehicle or the 1800BH let alone two. And what about spare gas? It all adds up with weight and space. Everyone has their opinions and what works best for them. The Micro Air does involve some wiring, but the instructions are relatively clear and it took me about two hours to do it, but that was because I was double checking everything. I hope this helps out. I will have some more data later this summer.

Jonathan

Originally Posted by Marine359

My new Champion 2500w dual fuel purchased from Home Depot for $540 will arrive in a couple of days. Got his one instead of the 3400 model due to weight. If I want to run my ac, I’ll need to either purchase an East Start for $300, or a second generator for $540 plus parallel kit for $80. Interested in hearing your input on which course will be smarter in the long run. Appreciate your advice.

[Marine359]

Thank you Johnathan,
Haven’t made a final decision yet, but knowing that the 2500w Champion weighs just 39 lbs, it’s an easy decision to buy two of them instead of one Champion 3400 @ 100 lbs. I can carry one in the pass thru and one in the truck bed with lp gas bottles. I plan to run only on propane. Not having to carry gasoline is a plus. Installing a backfeed on my home will cost a few hundred bucks, but I don’t consider that a determinative or additive cost. Appreciate your input on the Micro Air; less weight and less money. Maybe it’ll come down to a coin flip. Lol

[90mtx]

I promise I am not sponsored by Microair!!! But they way it is designed, it won't damage your HVAC. They even have a $25 insurance that will cover the cost of any damage it might cause. It is not a standard soft start set up, which is generally just a bigger capacitor. I am just a happy customer. My Westinghouse iGen2600 has a digital display that cycles through various parameters, one of which is watts. With the HVAC running and the fan on high it was pulling around 1900 watts, which is super close to the 2200 watts of continuous rating. So there is not much room for anything else (battery charger, water heater, fridge on AC). But for my needs it works.

Jonathan

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Scored the low price at HD with $599 price less $60 military discount.

Good deal. Is this something you work through your local store? I have never been able to get them to apply the mil discount when I order online, even when I pick up in store. Maybe if I order and pay in store at the special order desk?

As for the parallel kit, if you are only using the 30A connection to your trailer, you are good with a 30A kit. If you want to run additional equipment from the 20A outlets while the trailer is hooked up, then go 50A. I didn't like any of the options Champion had, so I just bought a TT-30R Receptacle and made my own for now. It plugs into the 20A outlets instead of the "parallel ports". Basically, its a DIY version of THIS. You have to be very careful not to leave one plug exposed when it's hot...

[Marine359]

Thanks Navy.
I went to the special order desk at HD to place my order with mil discount. Funny when I order online from Lowe’s, I get my 10% discount automatically. Not so with HD.

I don’t trust myself to build my own combiner. You’re right that a 30amp parallel will work for the RV, but when I buy my 2nd Champion, I’ll install a 50amp backfeed circuit and plug on my house. Each generator puts out 20amps, so a 50amp circuit is needed to get max current to my home panel. I need to run a well pump, fridge, freezer, furnace, and lighting. That’s about 35amps max load.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by Fasttimes

30amp kit looks clean with the stacking option, but the 50amp as you say with ability to back-feed might be a better choice.

Unfortunately, the 30A kits only stack with the specific generators they were designed for, and that doesn't include the 2500W Dual Fuel. That's why they are shown as "compatible" instead of "best fit". Also, the 50A kit does not have a TT-30 outlet, and requires an adapter to plug in your trailer.

From what I see when camping and talking to other people, the form factor of the 2000W and 2500W generators we all have is by far the most common. You would think they would build a kit for us, rather than the others that I have never even seen "in the wild".