Best Vehicle to Tow Micro Minnie

[SandySw]

I bought a new Ford Ranger with a tow package. It has a towing capacity of 7,500 lbs. It tows very easily. I have a Micro Minnie TB.

I had an older 2011 Ford ranger with a towing capacity of 5K lbs, but didn't want to cut it so close, so I traded it in and bought a new Ford Ranger.

[Mark L]

Originally Posted by Tgbyrne716

I know that people don't think of the Ridgeline as a tow vehicle however I bought a 2017 used and tow a 2018 Micro Minnie 2100BH. The truck is rated at 5000lb. My Micro Minnie 2100BH is probably close to that when loaded. Have only traveled around New England, primarily NH. It is also my commuter. I'm getting around 23mpg overall, 26 on the highway when not towing, 20 around town and 11 to 14 when towing. The truck handles the job beautifully and we all ride in great comfort.

I also have a Honda Ridgeline (2019) to tow my 2108DS Micro Minnie. I live in Utah and regularly go up and down mountain passes from 5000 to 10000 feet with no problem. Use an equalizer hitch and trailer brakes and you'll have no problems.

[backtrack15]

Originally Posted by Tgbyrne716

I know that people don't think of the Ridgeline as a tow vehicle however I bought a 2017 used and tow a 2018 Micro Minnie 2100BH. The truck is rated at 5000lb. My Micro Minnie 2100BH is probably close to that when loaded. Have only traveled around New England, primarily NH. It is also my commuter. I'm getting around 23mpg overall, 26 on the highway when not towing, 20 around town and 11 to 14 when towing. The truck handles the job beautifully and we all ride in great comfort.

I definitely would not have thought of the Ridgeline as a tow vehicle prior to your post. In fact, the Ridgeline's payload rating (1500 lbs or so) is better than many 1/2 ton crew cab 4x4 pickups that you'll find for sale on dealer lots (I see a lot of stickers in the 1200 lb range). The Ike gauntlet video from TFLtruck shows it as quite capable even at high altitude and max trailer weight. I'm guessing it'd be a pretty ideal truck for those who don't tow all that far to camp. It's still probably not what I'd choose to tow long distances out west due to the small fuel tank and short wheelbase.

[Mark L]

Originally Posted by backtrack15

I definitely would not have thought of the Ridgeline as a tow vehicle prior to your post. In fact, the Ridgeline's payload rating (1500 lbs or so) is better than many 1/2 ton crew cab 4x4 pickups that you'll find for sale on dealer lots (I see a lot of stickers in the 1200 lb range). The Ike gauntlet video from TFLtruck shows it as quite capable even at high altitude and max trailer weight. I'm guessing it'd be a pretty ideal truck for those who don't tow all that far to camp. It's still probably not what I'd choose to tow long distances out west due to the small fuel tank and short wheelbase.

The fuel range is a good point. So far all my trips have been 350 miles or less to my camp spot. With a 200-225 mile range while towing that means one fuel stop out and one back. However, it's 700 miles from my house to Disneyland. That's four fuel stops in one day. For some people that may be an issue.

[backtrack15]

Originally Posted by Mark L

The fuel range is a good point. So far all my trips have been 350 miles or less to my camp spot. With a 200-225 mile range while towing that means one fuel stop out and one back. However, it's 700 miles from my house to Disneyland. That's four fuel stops in one day. For some people that may be an issue.

If gas stations are well spaced and plentiful, it's not really a huge deal. I normally want to stop every 200 miles for a break anyway. I just get a little anxious when the remaining range gets under 100. I'll be a terrible electric car owner.

[R_Lefebvre]

Hi all, first time poster here. Don't have a Minnie yet, just putting a deposit down on an 1800BH.

Just as a point of reference, I'm formerly an automotive engineer, and still have friends in the business, including one who worked on trailer tow ratings specifically.

First, about the 80% derating, it's not the worst advice in the world, but not because towing at the limit is abusive. Just gives you a bit of overhead in case you over-pack one day, etc. But the OEM's do extensive and thorough testing for those tow ratings. You can be assured that you can tow at the tow rating without abusing the TV, assuming you aren't doing something ridiculous.

I currently have an Apex 235RBS, and I originally was towing it with a Nissan Frontier, V6, 280hp rated at 6000lbs. It towed it OK, but I found that soon as I put anything on the hitch, it was on the bumpstops. And I used a WD hitch, but it was impossible to crank those bars enough to get much suspension travel on it. Also, while it had plenty of horsepower, I found that trying to maintain any speed above 50mph had it sucking back ludicrous amounts of fuel, probably would return 9 MPG if I tried to do 60 mph. This also had the engine revving at fairly high RPM, very short fuel range, I found the whole experience quite stressful.

Fast forward to now, I have a 2018 Colorado ZR2 Diesel. The towing experience is completely different. It has no problem handling the weight on the hitch, and I've towed trailers over 900lbs tonque weight (by accident in an emergency) and still wasn't on the bumpstops. No WD in that event, and it was sketchy, but I didn't die.

Towing the Apex is a dream. I still use the WD and anti-sway, as I just find it makes the whole experience more comfortable and secure, and I really recommend it to anybody even if not strictly needed. Having more weight on the front wheels, and the trailer wheels, and less on the truck's rear axle is always a good thing.

With the diesel, while only 180hp, I never feel it's underpowered. In town, it's preferable to a gas engine, as I can accelerate from a stop faster than a gas engine due to torque, on the 0-30 stretch, which is what you need to clear an intersection. Pulling up hills, it can get a bit pokey, but you feel totally comfortable with your foot on the floor all day long, as it's luxury-car quiet compared to the V6 which is revving it's brains out.

The exhaust brake on the diesel also makes down-hills much more confident.

That's really the word: confident. All high-power V6 will do the job, but you usually know you're working them.

I average about 15mpg towing the Apex with it at 55 mph, while I was getting about 12mpg towing at 45 mph with the Nissan. Same exact trailer. Also interesting, my father has a full size Chev with the V8, and he used to brag he got the same mileage as me. Then we went on a trip together, and he was towing his 20 foot trailer. I averaged 18 mpg on that one (flatland) while he was doing 14 mpg. That put an end to that.

My brother in law has a Tacoma, and it seems really similar to the Nissan. I personally wouldn't recommend towing a trailer with one. It will do it. And it's rated for it. But it won't be comfortable. He put a cap on the back, and was already squatting the springs and had to put airbags in. I really don't know why they spring these things so softly.

IMO, the Colorado is hands down the best tow vehicle available, before you go to a full-size truck.

And about upsizing: When I bought the trailer, the dealer said "see you in 3 years!" I asked what that was about. He said most people buy a trailer at the limit of their tow vehicle. Then decide to upsize the tow vehicle. Then figure, why not get a bigger trailer? Then they are uncomfortable again. So they get a bigger truck. In an endless spiral upwards.

I got a better TV, and we're trading down to a smaller trailer. I want to got further, on less maintained roads, and be more comfortable.

[FlyingBiskit]

This is great perspective and advice R_Lefebvre! I just bought an 1800BH amd a 1500 silverado to tow it with. Everyone is telling me I will get a bigger trailer but like you I want to be able to get remote places and also agree that not worrying about capability whether from a power or braking/stability standpoint is much nicer

[Marine359]

Wow,
Thanks R.
Now I wish I had bought the Duramax. At the time I bought, I couldn’t quite swallow the $5,000 price premium over the 3.6L gasser. The gasser doesn’t labor on mountain grades, but I’m sure I would have been happier with your motor.

[FlyingBiskit]

That small diesel is an awesome motor. I am getting 13mpg on the highway with my 5.3 gasser, 15mpg with the colorado oilburner is excellent

[R_Lefebvre]

FB: Yeah, it just depends what you want. I was never one for conventional RV campgrounds. I tended to camp in provincial parks (like state parks, but even less built-up.) Things are going to be crazy this summer as everybody is trying to get out of their homes, we didn't go camping at all last year. We live on an acre and didn't want to deal with the crowds. So I'm preparing for more boondocking, which is why I'm trading to the 1800BH. I want something shorter, with more ground clearance, and larger diameter wheels. Just a bit more comfortable on gravel roads.

We're planning on going across Canada in August. Now, how will the 4 of us do in the 1800BH for a month? We'll see! But I wouldn't do a trip like that if I was towing near the limit. It would probably do it just fine, but it wouldn't be as much fun.

An 1800BH behind a full-size would tow like a dream. My parents took their 20 foot (8 feet wide) camper from Toronto, over to Oregon, up to Alaska and back, no sweat.

Marine: Yeah, I almost bought a gas one. In fact, I had ordered it. But GM screwed up my order (it got stuck at the shipping yard in Missourri for 2 months and nobody could tell me why it wasn't moving or when it was coming.) In that time, I changed my mind, and glad I did.

For sure, the $5000 cannot be justified by any economics. And it has been more problematic than a gas for sure. I've had several emissions issues. All covered under warranty, but it's a PITA. I'll live with it as long as it has emissions warranty. But then I'll yank that stuff first sign of trouble.

Anyway, it's not about saving money. It's just such a relaxing experience. It just kinda hit me on my first trip with it, pulling up a big hill with my foot on the floor, it's turning 2500rpm, and there is no sound or vibration. Compared to my Nissan, it would be turning 5000-6000 rpm, and you knew it!

Part of the problem is the automakers know that most people aren't towing most of the time. And when they have their foot in it, they want "Performance Feel" so they actually tune everything to let you know. Including the exhaust. Little-known secret, but many of them even employ tricks, like having a hose going to the engine inlet, with a valve that opens at high throttle, to bring intake noise right into the cab so you can hear it. Or lately, even just playing fake engine sounds over the stereo system.

I'm not making this up.

But that's not what you want when towing. And I think they skipped all this on the diesel as it's for a different customer.

The diesel Colorado is like a donkey, not a race horse. It just gets the job done. (well, the ZR2 is more of a goat)

I also have an older Land Rover, and a full off-road trailer I built, but I just found there weren't many places to go with it in Canada. Would be a dream in the deserts of the southwest. But here, you just get stuck in mud *everywhere*.

I find these Micro Minis are like a nice middle ground between a real overland trailer, and a conventional camper. I would have loved something like a serious off-road camper like the Australians do, but reality is, they weigh about twice as much as an MM for the same size. And you can't actually pull that thing anywhere it's designed to go. You'll just get stuck.

[R_Lefebvre]

Originally Posted by FlyingBiskit

That small diesel is an awesome motor. I am getting 13mpg on the highway with my 5.3 gasser, 15mpg with the colorado oilburner is excellent

Your numbers are towing I assume?

Yeah, my 15MPG is an average on a trip, and I try to keep it to 55mph. It'll take more at freeway speeds, to be fair.

Well, I guess it depends. That 15mpg was the average over a real 2000+ km trip from Ottawa to Thunder Bay, including the hills, in town, etc.

I've seen 18mpg towing on flat land to Gaspe at 50mph. (when my dad was getting 14).

I'm doing about 26 mpg in general usage. Did about 31mpg once when I intentionally set out to find out what it would do cruising empty at 45mph. (that's over 100 km, not just a point in time reading).

[R_Lefebvre]

One of my buddies was one of the guys who used to do at-the-limit handling tests for trailer tow. ie: emergency lane change at 65mph at max weight.

His boss was the one who would do that with a flat tire on the TV.

These are the tests that OEM's really do when establishing tow ratings.

Other things are Davis Dam, which is pulling up, I think it's 8% grade for 12 miles or something. They have to do it within a certain time, and without overheating the engine or transmission.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

So, back to derating: Trucks will do what they are rated for, safely, and without blowing up. But you have to ask yourself, are you towing for work? Or towing for vacation? The closer you are to the limit, the less comfortable you are, and the more it's like a job.

[backtrack15]

I'm thrilled when I get 18-mpg driving the truck by itself, which I only get in the thinner air at altitudes of 5000+ feet. I got about 9 mpg towing my fifth-wheel and 14-mpg towing a very tiny teardrop down here in thick/humid Texas air. We're headed up to the Grand Canyon/Zion/Bryce/Mesa Verde and Ouray CO here in a couple of weeks. I'm curious how she'll do towing the Micro Minnie at higher altitude...hoping to see 13-mpg.

[RocknRoll]

Nice to hear about all the comparisons and experiences! In the end it's all about balance. TV (Engine)+Load+Grade=Capability (Safety) +/- Comfort.

I couldn't agree more about the "Comfort" factor.

I live in the Southeast and with my experiences thus far in going from VA to FL, I've been pretty comfortable as the grades haven't been very steep. However, in one instance, traveling over the Blue Ridge was much more taxing on the TV / nerves and is about as much as I'd want to handle.

Unfortunately, I've possibly relegated myself to the fact that I most likely will not be able to travel north of the border or Northwest of the Rockies unless I replace my TV.

[Fasttimes]

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

Hi all, first time poster here. Don't have a Minnie yet, just putting a deposit down on an 1800BH.

Just as a point of reference, I'm formerly an automotive engineer, and still have friends in the business, including one who worked on trailer tow ratings specifically.

First, about the 80% derating, it's not the worst advice in the world, but not because towing at the limit is abusive. Just gives you a bit of overhead in case you over-pack one day, etc. But the OEM's do extensive and thorough testing for those tow ratings. You can be assured that you can tow at the tow rating without abusing the TV, assuming you aren't doing something ridiculous.

I currently have an Apex 235RBS, and I originally was towing it with a Nissan Frontier, V6, 280hp rated at 6000lbs. It towed it OK, but I found that soon as I put anything on the hitch, it was on the bumpstops. And I used a WD hitch, but it was impossible to crank those bars enough to get much suspension travel on it. Also, while it had plenty of horsepower, I found that trying to maintain any speed above 50mph had it sucking back ludicrous amounts of fuel, probably would return 9 MPG if I tried to do 60 mph. This also had the engine revving at fairly high RPM, very short fuel range, I found the whole experience quite stressful.

Fast forward to now, I have a 2018 Colorado ZR2 Diesel. The towing experience is completely different. It has no problem handling the weight on the hitch, and I've towed trailers over 900lbs tonque weight (by accident in an emergency) and still wasn't on the bumpstops. No WD in that event, and it was sketchy, but I didn't die.

Towing the Apex is a dream. I still use the WD and anti-sway, as I just find it makes the whole experience more comfortable and secure, and I really recommend it to anybody even if not strictly needed. Having more weight on the front wheels, and the trailer wheels, and less on the truck's rear axle is always a good thing.

With the diesel, while only 180hp, I never feel it's underpowered. In town, it's preferable to a gas engine, as I can accelerate from a stop faster than a gas engine due to torque, on the 0-30 stretch, which is what you need to clear an intersection. Pulling up hills, it can get a bit pokey, but you feel totally comfortable with your foot on the floor all day long, as it's luxury-car quiet compared to the V6 which is revving it's brains out.

The exhaust brake on the diesel also makes down-hills much more confident.

That's really the word: confident. All high-power V6 will do the job, but you usually know you're working them.

I average about 15mpg towing the Apex with it at 55 mph, while I was getting about 12mpg towing at 45 mph with the Nissan. Same exact trailer. Also interesting, my father has a full size Chev with the V8, and he used to brag he got the same mileage as me. Then we went on a trip together, and he was towing his 20 foot trailer. I averaged 18 mpg on that one (flatland) while he was doing 14 mpg. That put an end to that.

My brother in law has a Tacoma, and it seems really similar to the Nissan. I personally wouldn't recommend towing a trailer with one. It will do it. And it's rated for it. But it won't be comfortable. He put a cap on the back, and was already squatting the springs and had to put airbags in. I really don't know why they spring these things so softly.

IMO, the Colorado is hands down the best tow vehicle available, before you go to a full-size truck.

And about upsizing: When I bought the trailer, the dealer said "see you in 3 years!" I asked what that was about. He said most people buy a trailer at the limit of their tow vehicle. Then decide to upsize the tow vehicle. Then figure, why not get a bigger trailer? Then they are uncomfortable again. So they get a bigger truck. In an endless spiral upwards.

I got a better TV, and we're trading down to a smaller trailer. I want to got further, on less maintained roads, and be more comfortable.

Interesting about the tow ratings and how they are engineered. I've heard that the payload ratings on tow vehicles are very conservative compared to the actual breaking point, do you think that's true?



In my case, my TV is an 10' Ford Expy with HD tow package. 95% of the trips I make in a year I'm basically at the payload capacity of the truck, payload and Rear Gawr stated limits with myself, wife and dog. WDH dialed in and tows just fine. But, there is a trip or two in the year when I take 3 teenage nephews, who are growing into young men on a trip. In that case, I'm over my payload and Rear GAWR by about 200-300lbs.



Do you think that's abusing and pushing the limits of the payload and rear axle rating? Or, as I've heard, an acceptable number as long as it's not all the time and WDH and tongue are all dialed in?

[R_Lefebvre]

That's a hard question to answer. I certainly wouldn't recommend anybody exceed manufacturers ratings, in writing.

But there are two truths I'll point out:

1) The automotive market is very competitive, particularly for trucks. No manufacturer is going to leave anything on the table with regards to capacity. *

2) The testing that goes into the ratings, tests for a worst case scenario. At the limit, when it's hot, on rough roads, for long distances.

3) Engineers are good, but they're still human, and fallible. Sometimes they do miss things. (OK, that's 3 things.)

For example, who here knows the true details behind the Firestone Tire Recall that killed the Explorer brand for a decade? I do, I was at Ford in 2000/2001 when it all went down.

Most people think: "The tires didn't meet specification, and the Explorer was poorly designed with bad stability."

No.

The tires in question met the specification. But they were at the bottom end of tolerance.

The problem was due to compounding factors. The Explorer had an ancient chassis, and rode like crap. It also had a high-CG, and was prone to rolling (as any other SUV of the time would do). They solved both these problems by recommending a low-ish inflation pressure of 24 psi. This made the tires squishier and helped the ride, and also destroyed traction, so the trucks would skid instead of gripping and rolling. (it's better to hit something with your front bumper, than your roof).

But, then you have to add in the fact that most drivers at the time, neglected tire pressure. And when you start at 24psi, it doesn't take too long to end up in the teens.

Further, it required the owner to exceed posted speed limits, for a long time, in very hot weather. And then when the tires blew, they had to do exactly the wrong thing, to cause it to roll. Ford actually demonstrated that if you literally just took your hands off the wheel, the truck would just slow down and pull gently in the direction of the blowout.

That's an incredible confluence of factors to make that disaster.

Anyway, long-winded, what am I saying. I don't recommend anybody exceed manufacturer ratings.

However, I have done it on occasion. Sometimes by accident. I don't have portable weigh-scales. Who does? But when I know I'm in a sketchy situation, I back-off and don't push the limits in other areas. I drive slower. I try extra hard not to hit potholes or speed bumps hard. I drive more carefully. I make sure my tires are properly inflated, brakes are good, etc.

* My Colorado ZR2 Duramax has a tow rating of 5000lbs which is significantly less than the 7700lbs rating on the non-ZR2 trucks. I have and do exceed that rating. I know that it has nothing to do with braking capacity, axle ratings, or suspension. If anything, the suspension on this is vastly better than the standard and makes controllability much better. (not the case for all off-road-package trucks!) It's reportedly due to reduced airflow into the radiator, from the bumper design. It cannot do the Davis Dam test.

So, it's not unsafe to tow 7000lbs. It might just over-heat. But I live in Canada. I don't pull up Davis Dam. It's not that hot here. I drive a little more slowly.

I also believe that there might be a little sand-bagging going on. The ZR2 is a low-volume vehicle. Testing costs money. I'm pretty sure the engineers were told "You only get one round of testing, pick a target rating that you know it will pass. We're not going to spend $1M testing a 1000-vehicle special package."

[Foothills83]

^^^ That's great perspective. Thanks.

[FlyingV]

I will be towing a Micro Minnie 2100BH. 3760 dry weight 5000 GVWR. I will be using a 2021 Ford F 150 Lariat Powerboost. It’s a hybrid truck with 1441 lb payload. With me spouse dog full tank of gas and hitch weight, I calculate about 400 pounds for additional cargo in the truck and I doubt we will loading more than 1300 lbs of gear in the trailer, but it’s nice not be on the edge of my limits.

The best part of using this truck is not that it has enough payload power and torque, it is the 7.2kw inverter built into the bed wall that runs off the 1.5kw lithium battery and the truck motor at idle when it needs to recharge the battery. Boondocking will be a piece of cake. Picking up my trailer in June. Gotta admit I am very excited about having the flexibility of not having to be concerned with power and AC especially.

[R_Lefebvre]

Interesting. So it has a Lithium battery for starting? I wasn't sure they can put out the amps. Might be different chemistry, Lithium Polymer or Lithium Ion instead of Lithium Iron Phosphate.

[backtrack15]

I think my two 6V batteries on the trailer have 1.2kWh of storage (assuming 50% discharge). Having the equivalent in the truck would be nice. It’ll be interesting to see how much fuel is used by the truck when running as a generator. Definitely convenient as a backup.