2022 new micro minnies - Dealer experience

BarchettA · 07-03-2023, 04:40 PM

I just wanted to share an experience I had today with a dealer. Ive been looking for a small lightweight camper for myself and my dog for about 4 months. I previously had a large fifth wheel, it was a 2003 fleetwood made. Im now realizing just how good it was after today.

Im not gonna name the dealer, but they have several 2022 1808fbs models.. I havent looked at campers for years. Anyway, I got there, and asked to see the 1808 with the dinette. I walked in and I was really shocked at how poorly made it was. Not only that, but it was used as a part source. Several things were missing like the audio head unit. I started to poke around and found all sorts of loose trimwork. I then got in the shower and noticed a 6" crack right in the center of the upright portion of the shower. The window valances felt like they were made of cardboard. 2 yrs in the hot sun and I dont know what that unit would look like.

I started to look at other similar models and saw parts missing on some as well.

This is a nationwide dealer. So I dont know if it is just this dealer or what is going on. But buying a new one remote doesnt seem feasible because Id wind up spending a week waiting for it to be fixed before I could take delivery if this is what is going on. OR, Id have spend a LOT of money on a 2023 I guess.. one that just arrived with all of its parts (in theory). In my opinion, 2023 campers are outrageously, shamelessly priced. I would say 40% over-priced. And that includes them all like Lance and Outdoor travel trailer, northwoods etc.. the top brands.

Anyway, this is what I saw, and my opinion. Id appreciate it if I was chastised for that. I think everyone who might be here looking for a Winnebago should know about this to at least look for the same issue especially if buying one of these "2022 deals". My guess is dealers cannot get parts and they are forced to cannibalize their inventory. Unless of course this was a unique situation.. HOWEVER.. I was warned by a salesman who quit his job and stayed in contact with me that this sort of thing was going on and to completely avoid covid RVs (unrelated dealer in a different state).

Anyway.. be careful folks.. the RV industry is in big trouble.

MicroMinnie · 07-03-2023, 07:49 PM

2022 Models generally would have been made mid Covid around Jan 2021, lot of garbage out there.

Re pricing, Generally take 36% of MSRP for towables and you know where the bottom is, that’s around dealer cost.

BarchettA · 07-04-2023, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroMinnie

2022 Models generally would have been made mid Covid around Jan 2021, lot of garbage out there.

Re pricing, Generally take 36% of MSRP for towables and you know where the bottom is, that’s around dealer cost.

First off.. the MSRPs are insane.. even 2022.

Second, it is lower than 36%. For example, I see a 1808fbs which has a msrp of 45k. 36% is 28,800. They are asking 26,9. So that is asking price.

I guess with missing parts its a "deal",

Marine359 · 07-04-2023, 03:28 PM

MSRP is irrelevant.

You can go crazy trying to skinny down dealer profit. If you’re a dealer in business to make money, at some point you will tell customers who want a no-profit deal to take a hike.

Forget it, they have to make a profit in order to stay in business and provide any degree of customer service. If you want a deal where you win big and the dealer loses, you’ll never find that deal. You do want the dealer to do a good pre-delivery inspection, pre-delivery repairs, and a good PDI, don’t you? Those things aren’t free.

Here’s a little secret. Offer the dealer an invoice plus deal. You decide the percentage over the dealer invoice you’re willing to pay. If your percentage is way low, you get booted. If it’s in the ballpark, negotiation begins. Many dealers won’t do an invoice plus deal. Some will, especially if their inventory is high. If the dealer accepts your invoice plus offer, he has to show you the actual (printed from factory) invoice. There are dealer holdbacks and incentives, but you’ll never be able to know or negotiate those.

BarchettA · 07-04-2023, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine359

MSRP is irrelevant.

You can go crazy trying to skinny down dealer profit. If you’re a dealer in business to make money, at some point you will tell customers who want a no-profit deal to take a hike.

Forget it, they have to make a profit in order to stay in business and provide any degree of customer service. If you want a deal where you win big and the dealer loses, you’ll never find that deal. You do want the dealer to do a good pre-delivery inspection, pre-delivery repairs, and a good PDI, don’t you? Those things aren’t free.

Here’s a little secret. Offer the dealer an invoice plus deal. You decide the percentage over the dealer invoice you’re willing to pay. If your percentage is way low, you get booted. If it’s in the ballpark, negotiation begins. Many dealers won’t do an invoice plus deal. Some will, especially if their inventory is high. If the dealer accepts your invoice plus offer, he has to show you the actual (printed from factory) invoice. There are dealer holdbacks and incentives, but you’ll never be able to know or negotiate those.

Dealers have to pay insurance and every sq foot costs them money. At some point they will have no choice but to dump the covid junk or no room for 2024s. It is what it is. Ive been saying it for a few months now, the rv market is ready and primed to crash, big time. These things are junk. I wont be buying this junk that manufactures are putting out.. I'll be looking at an older Nash.. problem is where I live none to be found so will need to ship.. doesnt matter.. even if I have to pay $2k to ship, Im WAY ahead.

**creativepart** · 07-05-2023, 07:22 AM

Looking back over the 14-previous posts you’ve made here in the past month tells a persistent story of bad dealers, bad sales people, bad products and how you are “done” and “exhausted” with the whole process.

I’m sorry you are having issues getting a cheap price on a Winnebago travel trailer but perhaps you’d be happier with some other dealer or even some other brand. You were high on Lance TTs when you first joined here. There’s lots of brands out there maybe one of them would suit you better?

mfouts · 07-05-2023, 10:42 AM

I recently purchased a new 2022 2108 FLX DS and the dealer was definately trying to get rid of them. They had 6 or 7 of the 22s on the lot and I saw none of the scavaging you are talking about. I will have to admit there are some quality issues but that seems to be true for a lot of the RVs out there. My previous was an Arctic Fox which was considerably more expensive but still used most of the same components as everybody else. I love a bargain and my Mini definately was that. I am learning to deal with the issues and take care of them myself, not relying on the dealership or manufacturer.

BarchettA · 07-05-2023, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

Looking back over the 14-previous posts you’ve made here in the past month tells a persistent story of bad dealers, bad sales people, bad products and how you are “done” and “exhausted” with the whole process.

I’m sorry you are having issues getting a cheap price on a Winnebago travel trailer but perhaps you’d be happier with some other dealer or even some other brand. You were high on Lance TTs when you first joined here. There’s lots of brands out there maybe one of them would suit you better?

After really diving in, with what I have to work with both truck and $ Ive decided on 2004-2005 Nash 17b. Very high quality (relatively speaking) and all the "tech" can easily be added. These are bought by people who take care of their investments (generally speaking). Many times stored under cover. High quality 4 season RVs. Have to ship it from the west coast and pay or an inspection but will worth it.

Ive spoken to many dealers.. a single dealer isnt the issue. Its the market.

(I may change my mind tomorrow

)

EDIT: for folks looking at buying a camper.. highly suggest you create a spreadsheet like this.. Will keep you out of trouble.
You can also do similar but more advanced even here:

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptraile...utionhitch.php

**creativepart** · 07-05-2023, 12:26 PM

My first TT in 2002 was a Nash 16T. It was great with zero issues. We traded it in 2003 after one short season for a new Arctic Fox 22H. We loved that TT and sold it after 8 years for full asking price in one day. We replaced that with a 2010 AF 25S ordered from the factory.

Be aware the early Nash were 100% wood framed and on the heavy side. And, they could be bog simple or optioned up to Arctic Fox level. So, when looking at them used they can vary quite a bit.

BarchettA · 07-05-2023, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

My first TT in 2002 was a Nash 16T. It was great with zero issues. We traded it in 2003 after one short season for a new Arctic Fox 22H. We loved that TT and sold it after 8 years for full asking price in one day. We replaced that with a 2010 AF 25S ordered from the factory.

Be aware the early Nash were 100% wood framed and on the heavy side. And, they could be bog simple or optioned up to Arctic Fox level. So, when looking at them used they can vary quite a bit.

Did you see my tow chart?

Really not many heavy options though.. none that I can think of anyway. If you think of one two let me know.

2004 was the first year they went to 4 season which is the reason that year is my cut off.

**creativepart** · 07-05-2023, 02:55 PM

We towed the Nash 16T with a 2000 Nissan Xterra. So, you'll have no problems. I just meant, it's surprisingly heavy compared to other sub-20' TTs these days.

The best "option" to get for any early Nash is the shock absorber suspension. I know they made that a standard item in later years, but I"m not sure when that took place. The 2002 still had the "tin" sides - later models got FRP sides.

Our 2010 AF was "4-Season"... but, yeah, no! 3-season sure. But I spent a night in ours in -4 degrees in Idaho and it was like sleeping in a refrigerator even with the furnace running non-stop. Even 25 degrees was too cold in the Arctic Fox 4-season TT.

BarchettA · 07-05-2023, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

We towed the Nash 16T with a 2000 Nissan Xterra. So, you'll have no problems. I just meant, it's surprisingly heavy compared to other sub-20' TTs these days.

The best "option" to get for any early Nash is the shock absorber suspension. I know they made that a standard item in later years, but I"m not sure when that took place. The 2002 still had the "tin" sides - later models got FRP sides.

Our 2010 AF was "4-Season"... but, yeah, no! 3-season sure. But I spent a night in ours in -4 degrees in Idaho and it was like sleeping in a refrigerator even with the furnace running non-stop. Even 25 degrees was too cold in the Arctic Fox 4-season TT.

I dont want the FRP sides.. they had delamination issues big time back then.. tin sides for me.. Yeah 4 seasons is get you through a few frozen nights and even then.. precautions..

BarchettA · 07-05-2023, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

We towed the Nash 16T with a 2000 Nissan Xterra. So, you'll have no problems. I just meant, it's surprisingly heavy compared to other sub-20' TTs these days.

The best "option" to get for any early Nash is the shock absorber suspension. I know they made that a standard item in later years, but I"m not sure when that took place. The 2002 still had the "tin" sides - later models got FRP sides.

Our 2010 AF was "4-Season"... but, yeah, no! 3-season sure. But I spent a night in ours in -4 degrees in Idaho and it was like sleeping in a refrigerator even with the furnace running non-stop. Even 25 degrees was too cold in the Arctic Fox 4-season TT.

What year was your 16t?

**creativepart** · 07-05-2023, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarchettA

What year was your 16t?

It was a 2002. At least that’s when we bought it. We were the first owners and we bought it at Smith Chevrolet and RV in Idaho Falls, ID. They were the Northwood dealer around there. We lived in Jackson, WY. Idaho Falls is the closest “big” town.

Dallasrules · 07-09-2023, 04:10 PM

I was recently looking at late model motorhomes and I wasn't impressed. I also have an older model large 5th wheel. I went to look at a 2011 with 30,000 miles on it and immediately fell in love because of the quality. The look, feel, and fit of everything was impressive. The price was good too. So, next week I am bringing home a 2011 Winnebago Vista 36D.

PWRving · 07-14-2023, 02:23 PM

In June we paid $26,995 for a 2023 MM 1800BH that had an MSRP just short of $47k. That’s 42% off MSRP.
I didn’t even haggle. It was a fair price for me. I also paid cash without a question of financing by the dealer.
Dealer fee was $995 + tax and tags.
All told, including a WDH and brake controller installed it was $30,500 out the door cash.

The MM build quality is very good and the fit and finish is better than I saw on a new Lance. I looked at Geo-Pro and they have poor fit and finish. The MM has good insulation, but I wouldn’t compare it to a 4 season trailer. It’s definitely better than my 2017 Winnebago View that I sold in March.

It’s hard to compare apples and oranges, but the Winnebago was the best value for me and a nice product I can be proud to own.