Battery shutoff, and exiting coach with batteries off

[gravityimage]

Hi, I have an issue I need to resolve. When I exit my coach (WBGO Vista 2014), after running the generator for its monthly workout, I have knife switches on both batteries, that I open, and I turn of all the power switches so theoretically there should be no power to ANYTHING, but the steps still slide out when I open the door. I don't have a place to plug in a trickle charger because it's in a storage yard with no outlets.
How do I leave the coach with all power off, and the steps retracted? I have done it in the past, and have either forgotten how I did it, or something has changed. This is a problem because the storage lot has very narrow spaces, and my neighbor may hit my extended steps when he pulls his coach out. Can anyone help me with this? I have spent an fair amount of time searching old forums for a solution. I am ok with climbing out of the coach with the steps retracted.
Bill

[creativepart]

Turn on your steps. The steps operate from the chassis battery not the house batteries and they will work even with both disconnects turned off. You have a separate on/off switch for your steps, just turn them on and the steps will retract when you close the door.

[powercat_ras]

My 2015 Vista 27N has a chassis power disconnect switch but it does not open the connection to either the two step circuit breakers in the Chassis Control Box or the radio memory power connection. Even with the chassis disconnect switch in disconnect position there is about 1.6 amp-hours (20 watt-hours) per day drain on the chassis battery. If you visit your RV and exercise the generator monthly and run the chassis engine monthly you should not need to disconnect the chassis battery.

Or, if you store outside a 5 Watt Solar Battery Charger, $25
connected to the chassis battery will keep up the chassis battery during storage.

[Wayne M]

I leave the steps extended by turning off the switch. When I talked to Wbgo it was stated that the steps draw more current than the solar or trik-l-charger can keep up with. I would go to check on the MH in two weeks with the steps retracted and the switch on to find low voltage. When I started leaving the steps out and the step switch off I never had the low voltage problem again.

May be different for your model but call Wbgo with serial number and ask questions.

The steps work on an electronic current limiting switch so there is voltage and current constantly applied when the switch is on...for my previous model. With the newer to me I just kept doing what I was doing and no problems.

[powercat_ras]

Someone measured a Kwikee Step and posted the information online and it only draws 0.023 Amp ( 23 milliamps ) from the chassis battery when the step is in standby. The radio standby actually draws more ( around 50 - 75 milliamps depending on model ). The chassis power drain that gets shed if you have a Winnebago OEM F53 chassis battery disconnect is the Ford Chassis Control Modules that have ignition off standby power in particular the Engine Control Module.

[dkoldman]

I know what you are thinking and why, but it is awfully dangerous to purposely cutoff the power to the steps. Everything is working as designed, I don't see the concern that Kwikee Steps may drain down the house battery when not being used?

If you want comfort, test it. Ensure chassis battery is fully charged, everything else is off including switch for chassis. Go measure voltage 2 weeks later, if you have good batteries you should not see appreciable change.

In my case, I have an additional Cateye Cat Converter Motion Detector installed and it is on all the time just like the Kwikee Steps. My chassis battery is OEM Napa FLA 4 or 5 years old?

[gravityimage]

Hi, thanks to all for your responses, but if I leave the power on and the switches off, the batteries will be depleted in less than a month.
I guess the only problem I really have is how do I retract the steps and keep them retracted even after I have apparently no batteries connected. How is power getting to the steps with open connections to both batteries? What is the power source? Is there another battery somewhere in the system, or capacitor that is powering the steps out? The steps will extend, but then will not retract when I close the door.
Thanks, Bill

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by gravityimage

Hi, thanks to all for your responses, but if I leave the power on and the switches off, the batteries will be depleted in less than a month.
I guess the only problem I really have is how do I retract the steps and keep them retracted even after I have apparently no batteries connected. How is power getting to the steps with open connections to both batteries? What is the power source? Is there another battery somewhere in the system, or capacitor that is powering the steps out? The steps will extend, but then will not retract when I close the door.
Thanks, Bill

You may wish to call Kwikee as it may be only way to satisfy complete understanding of your quest.

If I follow you correctly, the exact opposite happens in my system?

Assume everything is wired as normal.
1. Power comes from the Chassis battery
2. If my chassis battery goes to low voltage (not dead) my steps controller will notice and will retract steps!!! Which makes sense to avoid steps getting stuck extracted when the batteries are dead
3. There is a switch to turn the steps automatic extend on or off. This is how to tell the steps to always retract 100% of the time not just engine start up when door is shut.

But my concern is even if you get what you believe you want, you may still have a dead battery in 4 months? I agree something is draining your battery, but I am not convinced it is the Kwikee Steps ( unless you are using it a lot during this period?) I may be wrong, but I am leery to believe standby will drain your batteries? If it does, you have defective controller or a bad battery. You may have something else drawing the battery down? (Radio, Security, Antenna or something similar).

But this I can tell you for sure., Kwikee will not tell you to use or operate that coach with the Kwikee power disconnected. The liability is too great. They will tell you to disconnect the battery when doing any work on which I have done. It is simple to do what you seek, but my money says you may have another problem with the battery?

If it was a common occurrence / practice to do what you seek, you would be hearing a lot of tales where someone forgot, open door and broke a leg exiting the coach because the steps DID NOT EXTEND Kwikee's worse nightmare.

But nonetheless per your question, to do what you seek, just disconnect the ground wire from the Chassis battery. It will shut it all down. The trick will be to do so with steps already retracted.

Good luck and be safe

[gravityimage]

I agree with all that you have said. The first thing I do when I get back to my coach is to re-connnect the batteries. But I don't like having to jumpstart the coach because one or both batteries are dead. And it's not good for the batteries. I took them out and had them tested recently, and they are fine, so I don't want to risk them by leaving them connected. I will do some more testing of the electrical system to see how much the draw is when turned off. The one odd thing though, is that after I turn off the batteries and disconnect the batteries, if I open the door, the step extends, but then when I close the door the step doesn't retract.
Bill

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by gravityimage

The one odd thing though, is that after I turn off the batteries and disconnect the batteries, if I open the door, the step extends, but then when I close the door the step doesn't retract.

That’s what happens when the step switch in the stairwell is ON in my coach. I consider this normal behavior.

[powercat_ras]

If you want to experiment there is a Kwikee supplied 4 way connector under the step by the control unit. If you unplug it it will totally disconnect the two DC power leads from the step assembly. You can then see if you chassis battery still discharges with the step completly disconnected from the battery. My bet is that it will and that the vampire is something else.

Good luck.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

That’s what happens when the step switch in the stairwell is ON in my coach. I consider this normal behavior.

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

If you want to experiment there is a Kwikee supplied 4 way connector under the step by the control unit. If you unplug it it will totally disconnect the two DC power leads from the step assembly. You can then see if you chassis battery still discharges with the step completly disconnected from the battery. My bet is that it will and that the vampire is something else.

Good luck.

Excellent

I am gonna pull out that old Vampire Book of the Dead to Test and Troubleshoot the same. I believe the Undead call it a manual

Kwikee Customer Service is one OEM Mfg that I have found beyond helpful. They answer their phones and they actually talk to you. If you know what a voltmeter is they can talk you through anything. i.e. I knew my steps were not working right. They proved to me that it had nothing to do with the Step Controller nor the Kwikee steps. It was with WBGO wiring. But the WBGO Dealer never could find the Jekyll & Hyde like Vampire and charged me because me because they were un willing to do due diligence to find the root cause as it was not working properly. Yours truly would find the issue several months later just outside the DC Buss where a 9 connector pin had one pin poorly making contact. There is diagram of how it is suppose to be wired

During my experience with Kwikee Steps, one things stood out. SAFETY!!!
They wanted to know where I was every time I tested something, and that they wanted to ALWAYS insure that the Steps would extend if the Door Opened.

I believe OP Steps are working as it should, he needs to find out why he can only go 4 weeks off supposedly a good chassis battery with everything supposedly off?

[Morich]

About the best way I have found to have the steps in while door is open is to put a small magnet on the microswitch at the door.
You likely have a rectangle at the door about 2 inches by 1/4 ? That tells the step whether door is closed or not, so adding a small magnet there can "fool" the system.

Note that I have found using too big magnet seems to make the switch tend to hang as I feel it can be too strong and may be distorting the little reed in the microswitch.
I had batteries under the steps and to get so I could stand nearby while cleaning batteries, I had to fool the door!
If you have this, be aware that knocking the magnet off while standing in front of steps may let the step bang your shins!

Safety items like steps, CO and propane are routed around the cutoff switches as well as ignition, radio, etc.

[Morich]

Electrical for your RV is here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_184170.pdf

Chart for "decoding wire and circuit ID is here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf

This is a snip of the part of the drawing that involves the supply for the safety items to point out how some circuits bypass the battery disconnect switch.
Click this to get a better view or go direct to the main drawings for the full picture?



From the battery, circuit SJ feeds two sub circuits (KA and ER) after the fuses.
You may find it worthwhile to remove these circuit fuses???

[deckape]

Why not disconnect the - terminal at the battery ? Then no power going anywhere . Or get a solar panel at harbour freight that clips to your batteries,as I do .

[Morich]

Originally Posted by deckape

Why not disconnect the - terminal at the battery ? Then no power going anywhere . Or get a solar panel at harbour freight that clips to your batteries,as I do .

This is what I normally do but then there are other folks who want to leave things running for different reasons, so knowing where and how the power gets there may help them decide what they want.
One owner I know of wanted to leave power on but most of it off as they wanted to leave added onboard electronics powered.

Sometimes we are a fickle bunch that never seems to want what we have??

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

That’s what happens when the step switch in the stairwell is ON in my coach. I consider this normal behavior.

Originally Posted by Morich

This is what I normally do but then there are other folks who want to leave things running for different reasons, so knowing where and how the power gets there may help them decide what they want.
One owner I know of wanted to leave power on but most of it off as they wanted to leave added onboard electronics powered.

Sometimes we are a fickle bunch that never seems to want what we have??

I am thinking some of this is coach specific, but when I house switch is OFF, there is no draw. WBGO confirmed while under warranty. My Chassis battery has draw from radio, kwik steps and Cat Eye Catalytic Alarm, but I have never left my coach long enough to draw down any batteries. I don't even use my Dealer installed (after purchase) disconnect switch for Chassis. Resetting the radio was annoying

But I do get it for those that wish to go 2-4 months or longer with no access to RV. I don't get why one will use a small charger when they could simply plug in and let the converter do the work. Since AGMs, I never go inside my battery compartment anymore.

[Dennis70]

I had the same problem on my 1997 Winnebago adventurer. I found i Needed to reach in and turn the Step switch off after they retracted. Also made sure the radio was off before I left. That solved my problem.
Hope it was helpful.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I am thinking some of this is coach specific, but when I house switch is OFF, there is no draw. WBGO confirmed while under warranty.

I'm thinking this may be a case of missing a small point when talking to Winnebago. Not a large draw but it looks to me like the LP detector would still be active when coach battery disconnect was off?

When looking at your drawings, it indicates there is a wire GJ that is on the side of the disconnect "upstream or before" the disconnect. That is what I see on most as a safety item to avoid coming back with an RV full of LP and no alarm.

Click these snips to see what I'm looking at.




The drawings are not the best on where that wire GJ goes to but it does show it lays on the same lug as the coach battery cable, and the Wire ID chart shows it upstream so I see no way it gets disconnected with the switch??

There are lots of pitfalls on trusting the drawings too far without checking but I feel like they may have missed on this detail.
If your detector has a green light on the front, one way to verify quick and easy would be to spot the light and then turn off the disconnect to see if the light is still there.
It sounds logical that you have enough spare battery that you may not have noticed any drain for short term storage??

Curious minds wonder as they wander!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Morich

I'm thinking this may be a case of missing a small point when talking to Winnebago. Not a large draw but it looks to me like the LP detector would still be active when coach battery disconnect was off?

When looking at your drawings, it indicates there is a wire GJ that is on the side of the disconnect "upstream or before" the disconnect. That is what I see on most as a safety item to avoid coming back with an RV full of LP and no alarm.

Click these snips to see what I'm looking at.

Attachment 184994
Attachment 184995

The drawings are not the best on where that wire GJ goes to but it does show it lays on the same lug as the coach battery cable, and the Wire ID chart shows it upstream so I see no way it gets disconnected with the switch??

There are lots of pitfalls on trusting the drawings too far without checking but I feel like they may have missed on this detail.
If your detector has a green light on the front, one way to verify quick and easy would be to spot the light and then turn off the disconnect to see if the light is still there.
It sounds logical that you have enough spare battery that you may not have noticed any drain for short term storage??

Curious minds wonder as they wander!

I confirmed a long time ago that on my 2019 29ve when my Disconnect Switch is OFF, the green LED on the Gas Detector goes off. So that drawing may not be applicable for my coach? I bought it brand new and no Mods have been made.

The smoke detectors run off 9v batteries (maybe AA? so don't sue me, I have changed them once when beeping was heard in MBR).

This topic is dear to me because BEFORE buying a RV; I was perplexed to astonished with how many people complained of dead batteries I never understood it, the why etc. short of user errors?

I had the disconnect switch conversation with WBGO because at the time, I noticed the little light on the power to antenna cable coax would take 15 - 20 minutes to shut off? WBGO insisted it should be immediate, and the Dealer under warranty could not find out why, so they opted to blame Magnun Energy's Inverter, but Magnum confirm that their inverters do not store any power and once the remote switch is off nothing happening and no capacitors. Mysteriously this phenom went away because I could no longer reproduce scenario where power was supplied to antenna when house disconnect was OFF.

For fun, I just shut off the SP and put my House Disconnect switch in Store mode (OFF). I have no Solar nor any 3rd party charger and my batteries (AGM) will just sit. I don't care how cold, don't even think about water anymore. My chassis has two draws, Chassis radio and my MOD added Cateye Motion Sensor to thwart potential Cat thieves.

The above is why I said it might be coach specific? I insist the #1 root cause I have read about over the years with newbies with dead batteries, is the fact that some will plug into SP and then put the coach in the store mode because it sounds logical. Come 2 months later batteries are dead, this repeats and then they blame the batteries or lack of water Some a little smarter will actually add a float charger. I guess that is good if no shore power is available and you know you have stuff that is drawing ANY charge off your house batteries. It is actually a workaround for true issue of unwanted parasitic draw that has not been resolved. Even if it were designed wrong, would want to fix, because I want my House batteries 100% shut down when I turn switch off. I know for Thor owners what I have is impossible and this is just one reason why I think the world of WBGO.