2009 Journey 39Z Air gauges leaking

[HollywoodGT]

I have a 2009 Jounrney 39Z and noticed a a hiss in the dash board when starting and shutting off the coach. I took the white cluster dash gauge out that has the two air pressure gauges. There appears to be some type of leak and someone previously tried to repair this leak. It has two plastic line that plug in.

Any idea the one gauge is like 600.00

Thank you in advance

[Cooperhawk]

Originally Posted by HollywoodGT

I have a 2009 Jounrney 39Z and noticed a a hiss in the dash board when starting and shutting off the coach. I took the white cluster dash gauge out that has the two air pressure gauges. There appears to be some type of leak and someone previously tried to repair this leak. It has two plastic line that plug in.

Any idea the one gauge is like 600.00

Thank you in advance

For an air gauge? That doesn't sound right.

[HollywoodGT]

Originally Posted by Cooperhawk

For an air gauge? That doesn't sound right.

Sad but true it is a temp, Oil and two air gauges in a 4' housing with a white face. If I could get it open I would imaging i can replace the push on connector and maybe solve issue. It was epoxied before but not sure what they were thinking because the air lines presses into a brass fitting. The housing just holds the fitting doesnt seal the hose

[FIRE UP]

Your coach, like a few zillion other diesel coaches with a few zillion feet of air lines and, a few zillion what's called *Push-to-connect* fittings, is not alone in this dilemma. Most of the time, those push-to-connect fittings hold air pressure pretty well, even in ugly environments like under the coach, on the chassis.

Up in the dash area, it's a clean environment and shouldn't pose a problem. But, most likely, the original connection of one or both of those air lines, into those gauge ports, was done incorrectly or, the air lines were not cut properly to fit into them. And the maybe the previous owner, didn't have a clue as to how a push-to-connect fitting works.

In reality, it's a very simple connection. It uses it's own air pressure to not only seal but, keep the lines in the connection. Just in case you're interested, here's how they come apart or, how to get the line out of the connection.

1. Release all air pressure in the system, doesn't matter how you do it, just do it.

2. You see the line going into each port/connection. There is a *collar* or ring, that surrounds that air line. That collar is moveable.

3. You begin by grabbing the air line, very close to that collar and, PUSH it in, towards the fitting/connection. It won't move very far, about 1/32nd to 1/16th of an inch maybe. Now, as you're holding that line, with pressure towards the fitting/port, you take either your free fingers on the same hand you're holding the line with, or, your other hand, and grab that collar and push it in towards the fitting/port too.

4. You see, that collar is a BARB on the inside. When the air pressure is released, and you push on the hose, you in fact release the barb of the collar. By pushing the collar in too, you negate that barb, so it can't take effect.

5. At that point, you can now remove the hose.

Now, based on you saying that the previous owner might have tried some form of epoxy on those air connections? Hmmm, not good. Trying to clean all that epoxy off of those, could be one heck of a job, if it could be done at all. If there's no chance of salvaging that gauge cluster, well Partner, you're in for a hunt, to find a replacement, either new or used. There are RV salvage yards around the country. And, I'm pretty sure there's a list of them on the net. The only issue is, getting a hold of that list and, if you call any of them, if they have EXACTLY what you're looking for, and, if they'll ship it out to you, at a reasonable cost???

In the event you simply cannot find a replacement/used gauge cluster, and maybe even not a new one, you might do what I might do and that is to MacGuyver your situation. By that I mean, If I had to, here's what I might think about doing.

If I had room, on or in, anywhere on that dash, I'd find space for two, small , as small as you can find that would work, two small air gauges that are mountable. If that was/is possible, you could mount those two small air gauges and then, it would be a simple task to get two, push-to-connect fittings adapted to the back of those air gauges. Then, simply use the instructions I gave you to insert, freshly cut off air hoses, into those push-to-connect fittings, DONE.
That is just an idea. Good luck on your endeavor.
Scott

[imnprsd]

HollywoodGT: You are saying your Front and Rear air tank lines (presumably Blue & Red) go right to the back of 2 air gauges mounted in your dash? ...And that the previous owner had an air leak he tried to fix by using epoxy?

If so then you do not have a MMDC that handle your tank air pressure readings. No worries. But I am curious if you engine air compressor would just keep running while your air lines were leaking?

Anyway, FireUp gave you some good tips. I would only add that I used a small open-end-wrench to help me slide the collar to the air line back, so I could then pull it out. This will give you more leverage as sometime they are a tad stuck.

I also googled how to remove "cured" epoxy and this source recommend "Goo Gone" or some other solvent; and there was another reference to a heat gun.

I know cheap epoxy is brittle and sometime you can pick it apart.

Good luck. Let us know how you make out and please post a picture if you can. Thx.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by imnprsd

HollywoodGT: You are saying your Front and Rear air tank lines (presumably Blue & Red) go right to the back of 2 air gauges mounted in your dash? ...And that the previous owner had an air leak he tried to fix by using epoxy?

If so then you do not have a MMDC that handle your tank air pressure readings. No worries. But I am curious if you engine air compressor would just keep running while your air lines were leaking?

Anyway, FireUp gave you some good tips. I would only add that I used a small open-end-wrench to help me slide the collar to the air line back, so I could then pull it out. This will give you more leverage as sometime they are a tad stuck.

I also googled how to remove "cured" epoxy and this source recommend "Goo Gone" or some other solvent; and there was another reference to a heat gun.

I know cheap epoxy is brittle and sometime you can pick it apart.

Good luck. Let us know how you make out and please post a picture if you can. Thx.

Imnprsd,
I too was a tad perplexed on the fact that he had air hoses going right to the dash, with a Freightliner chassis. But, then it dawned on me, in somewhat later years than ours, apparently Freightliner decided to move the air pressure lines from the MMDC and send them directly to gauges in the dash. I don't remember what year it was they did this but, I know it was at least maybe after '06 or so.

It is possible that, with all the issues, complaints and whatnot they had over the years with owners of pre-MMDC chassis, those with the VDC units, that it maybe is possible that, they might have even had some issues with the air transducers in the MMDC that we might not know about and decided to skip that part of the operation of the MMDC and send those air lines directly to the gauges. It would be interesting to find out why they did that.
Scott

[imnprsd]

I was told that the MMDC was very similar in form, fit, and function to the VDC... on the MMDC was located under the dash and therefore is not subject to heat and vibration vs. the VDC that is located in the engine area side compartment.

I would think if this is true, and I'm not sure the above information is correct, that the Air Transducers are the same type, but it would make sense that they are.

In my other VDC thread I explain how to replace the air transducer.

As for when FL started to go with separate air gauges in the dash, I thought that was in 2008 or 2009, but I'm really not sure about that. However, in either system, the first diagnostic check if one gauge is reading good and the other gauge is ready bad... you just attach the bad air line to the good gauge, and see if it works. This helps to isolate the problem since each gauge air line is independent of the the other.

Of course, if you hear air whistling then you should be able to feel the air leaking out and that either means your air line did not get seated right or the air transducer is leaking inside... under the metal plate.

Note: I reassembled my VDC and it leaked air like crazy... because I did not include a plastic washer (a very common type) that sits right on top of the air transducer. So I replaced the plastic washer and the air leak went away and my air gauges worked great!

Anyway, I suppose it is possible a MMDC with air transducers can have the same "cold soldier joint" problem as an VDC.

In the OP case, it's possible to the old owned could not seat the air hose properly... and hopefully after he cleans off the epoxy that there is enough air line where he can make a clean cut to the air line and can re-insert it with tad pit of Vaseline on the outer part for lubrication. ...And if it doesn't work, then swap air lines to the other gauge to further diagnose.

==> I would guess a gauge that accept an airline direct has it's own air transducer in side and is not reparable. ...Or is cheaper to buy one from an RV salvage yard than it is to repair at a Speedometer Repair Shop. These things don't fail that often in an RV and there has to be a good, cheap supply available from a salvage yard. (TBD)

Below is a picture of VDC functions you can use for reference. The MMDC may or may not have the same functionality? And if you want to know more about VDC and or air transducers you can click on this link:
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...dl-357366.html

Notice the VDC and MMDC talk to a Medallion Message Center. ...and note you do do not see the speedometer or odometer function in this diagram, because that information comes from your ECM and Transmission Output Speed Sensor.

[HollywoodGT]

Originally Posted by imnprsd

I was told that the MMDC was very similar in form, fit, and function to the VDC... on the MMDC was located under the dash and therefore is not subject to heat and vibration vs. the VDC that is located in the engine area side compartment.

I would think if this is true, and I'm not sure the above information is correct, that the Air Transducers are the same type, but it would make sense that they are.

In my other VDC thread I explain how to replace the air transducer.

As for when FL started to go with separate air gauges in the dash, I thought that was in 2008 or 2009, but I'm really not sure about that. However, in either system, the first diagnostic check if one gauge is reading good and the other gauge is ready bad... you just attach the bad air line to the good gauge, and see if it works. This helps to isolate the problem since each gauge air line is independent of the the other.

Of course, if you hear air whistling then you should be able to feel the air leaking out and that either means your air line did not get seated right or the air transducer is leaking inside... under the metal plate.

Note: I reassembled my VDC and it leaked air like crazy... because I did not include a plastic washer (a very common type) that sits right on top of the air transducer. So I replaced the plastic washer and the air leak went away and my air gauges worked great!

Anyway, I suppose it is possible a MMDC with air transducers can have the same "cold soldier joint" problem as an VDC.

In the OP case, it's possible to the old owned could not seat the air hose properly... and hopefully after he cleans off the epoxy that there is enough air line where he can make a clean cut to the air line and can re-insert it with tad pit of Vaseline on the outer part for lubrication. ...And if it doesn't work, then swap air lines to the other gauge to further diagnose.

==> I would guess a gauge that accept an airline direct has it's own air transducer in side and is not reparable. ...Or is cheaper to buy one from an RV salvage yard than it is to repair at a Speedometer Repair Shop. These things don't fail that often in an RV and there has to be a good, cheap supply available from a salvage yard. (TBD)

Below is a picture of VDC functions you can use for reference. The MMDC may or may not have the same functionality? And if you want to know more about VDC and or air transducers you can click on this link:
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...dl-357366.html

Notice the VDC and MMDC talk to a Medallion Message Center. ...and note you do do not see the speedometer or odometer function in this diagram, because that information comes from your ECM and Transmission Output Speed Sensor.

Wow guys thanks for all the input! Yes i did notice FL had the same gauge cluster with a electronic gauge cluster and no lines running to it. As far as the epoxy goes he did keep it off the brass quick connect. The quick connect part or push in part of both fittings work fine. I don't think the owner realized that the plastic housing had nothing to do with the lines. I believe it just holds the fittings in place. So the leak is actually in the fitting that is inside the housing. It appears the housing pulls a part and doesn't screw a part like some. I think once I can get it a part I could find the leak.

You spoke about the connection being important all I can say is the end looks straight and no issues sliding in and locking. However maybe I will have to look closer. I did think about just getting a dual gauge and abandoning the OEM but I had to do that. I'm kind of anal about stuff like that.

I've owned the coach for about 3 months live in the midwest and I have taken two trips over the past two months. Just got back from Az about 2 weeks ago and now we're in Fla. I'm slowly getting down the list with the sleep number bed failing, now my wife pointed out another draw off its track so that is a total of 3 now to fix. Then the rear glass wardrobe door is binding really bad so I need to look at that ....the VCR is Inop and it appears all the speakers go through it? All the TV are upgraded so I need to figure out what works with what. I have been using the internet for TV as of now. It's a very clean coach but did need some TLC

Thank you again

[imnprsd]

If the leak is coming from the air line push fitting, then I would trim 1/32 off the end and make sure it's a "clean-square-cut."

Then apply put the smallest amount of Vaseline on your fingers and rub a very, very thin layer on the sides of the air line to help it slide into position.

That push-to-fit coupling locks into place and you will see a 1/16" gap after seating. If it's 1/32" then the air fitting will not seat.

If you are still leaking air after inserting the trimmed air line... remove and try again... only this time dab some WD-40 on the OUTSIDE of the air fitting so the brass or plastic parts can slide easier. (Do not get any WD inside!) Tip: Spray the WD on a Q-tip and apply on the outside of the brass air fitting.

=== OTHER FIXES ===

Tell us the problem with your Sleep Number bed and if you have a RV-King size with two bladders? Maybe we can coach you on that too:

For example,

A) You have a leak at the bladder, where the nipple fits, you can fix this with Gorilla Glue (wet catalyst); or...

B) If one bladders is always going low, you can plug that side of the motor with a cap, and then insert a "T" into the good side and connect both bladders together. This will save you from needing to replace your pump.

Note: If you unzip your bed mattress you may find some spare plastic caps hidden inside.

* To fix your sliding closet door, just inspect the top roller wheels to make sure they are hanging on the track; and adjust with a screw driver if necessary at the top.