Using the propane grill connection in reverse

[DavidM]

I am considering buying an RV with an external propane grill connection. This connection is obviously plumbed into the coach's low pressure propane system and has a quick connection.

I dry camp a lot and particularly with a propane generator (which I only use to recharge batteries) I could run out of propane if we are in one place for a long time or there isn't a propane fill place nearby.

So couldn't I get a 20# standard propane tank, with a regulator and a short piece of hose and hook it up to the coach's propane system. I would probably need to turn off the main propane tank to keep it drawn down simultaneously.

What do you guys think? Anyone done this and how does it work?

David

[TestDepth]

David, Yes you can. Just do a search for " RV Extended Stay LP Kit". Easy install as long as you can get to your service valve. Just need basic hand tools. Don't forget to leak check with soapy water after.

[BobC]

I was interpreting the OP's question as asking about an alternative approach to an extended stay installation. I think he was asking if he could turn off the main valve and connect a 20# tank, with regulator, to the external grill connection, which would then feed the rest of the system.

It seems to me, as a complete non-expert, that this approach would work. Whether or not it's advisable is another question.

[Morich]

Not sure what the OP is wanting but the general idea is that before the regulator is high pressure, after is low pressure and one cannot add a second reg on the low pressure side of the first reg, only on the high pressure side BEFORE that reg.
Bottomline is two regs inline gives too low while none is too high. Extend a stay is the common solution as it adds the tee before the first reg. and you use a reg at the grill.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Morich

Not sure what the OP is wanting but the general idea is that before the regulator is high pressure, after is low pressure and one cannot add a second reg on the low pressure side of the first reg, only on the high pressure side BEFORE that reg.
Bottomline is two regs inline gives too low while none is too high. Extend a stay is the common solution as it adds the tee before the first reg. and you use a reg at the grill.

If you read carefully, he is going to turn off the main valve and attach the 20# tank w/regulator to the BBQ fitting. Therefore there would only be one regulator functioning, the one on the 20# tank. The main regulator would not be functional in this case since the gas from the 20# tank would be on the outlet side, not the inlet.

Furthermore, my understanding is that the BBQ outlet is regulated with or without an Extend a Stay.

I think he's trying to avoid installing an Extend a Stay. As I see it, he's essentially removing the main tank and regulator from the equation and feeding regulated LPG into the system from the 20# tank. Assuming the BBQ fitting allows two way flow of LPG, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

As I mentioned before, this may or may not be a good idea even if it works.

[gurroz]

I must be missing something. Why not just take the 20lb tank and hook it up directly to the BBQ? The shortest distance between two places is a straight line! I have an extend a stay plus on my rig and it works great for it's intended purposes.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by gurroz

I must be missing something. Why not just take the 20lb tank and hook it up directly to the BBQ? The shortest distance between two places is a straight line! I have an extend a stay plus on my rig and it works great for it's intended purposes.

Here's my take on this for one more time.

As I understand this thread, the OP wants to use the 20# tank to supply his rig, not his BBQ, and is proposing an alternative to an Extend-a-Stay. In this regard, the external grill connection is just a convenient place to connect the 20# tank to feed the RV.

Personally, I'd opt for an Extend-a-Stay, but the OP's question was, whether or not the above approach would work. As I previously stated, I don't see why this wouldn't work as long as the quick connect valve will allow LPG to flow into it instead of out.

[TestDepth]

David, I went back and re-read your question. As Bob C said I believe you are trying to avoid an extended stay. If I understand correctly you simply want to plug a hose in to your LP quick disconnect on the side of your camper and shut off the main LP valve on your coach/ trailer. You really need to know where that quick disconnect is plumbed in at. Is it before the regulator on the coach? If so it would be considered high pressure. This kind of set up is not the norm. Not saying it could not be set up that way but again is not the norm. From the factory they are normally set up after the regulator on a coach it would be after the 1st stage regulator located at the main service valve. On a trailer the regulator is located at the portable DOT tanks. The second stage regulator(s) are located at each appliance. You could still do what you are wanting to do but will need a 1st stage regulator at the Portable DOT Cylinder (20 #, 30# etc) so you are not feeding too much pressure to the system. Unless you already have the required regulator and hose just laying around, why not get the correct parts and do it right? Just my 2 cents worth. Hate to see a fellow camper possibly make a deadly mistake. I have been working in the propane world for over 13 years after my retirement from the USN Submarine Service. Again this is just my 2 cents.

[DavidM]

I am the OP and the various interpretations to what I thought was a straightforward question are kind of amazing. I will say it again, I want to turn off the main propane tank using the valve on the tank and hook up an external 20# propane tank with a regulator to the propane system's quick connection. This connection is on the low pressure side. I want to use propane from the 20# tank for the stove, hot water heater, etc.

So two concerns have been raised:

1. That the quick connection has a check valve that prevents flow into the coach's propane system or does it? Does anyone know? I can't see why it should have one.

2. Concerns about it "not being a good idea". Why not?

David

[Morich]

Originally Posted by DavidM

So two concerns have been raised:

1. That the quick connection has a check valve that prevents flow into the coach's propane system or does it? Does anyone know? I can't see why it should have one.

2. Concerns about it "not being a good idea". Why not?

David

1. This seems to have gotten way off track as things tend to do, but I still would have some questions as RV are not all the same and we don't know anything at all about what you have, so we could check. IF we knew what you were trying to do and that does, of course, involve knowing what RV you want to do it to, there are often parts lists which list what parts are involved on many of our RV.
2. It is not the normal way and it is quite often more expensive than doing it the standard way. But then there may be good reasons for wanting to do it in an odd way. Maybe you already have the parts and don't want to shop for something better? Maybe your Rv is parked so that you do want the tank on the more frequently used side? Most of the RV folks I know want to keep that side as clear as practical so want the propane tank on the far side, but we don't know what you want.
Most good discussions have to start with getting the basic information before the best answers come out. There are just too many different RV out there to even begin to sort through which parts an unknown one might have!

[JoeC]

One way to find out is to try it. As long as both regulators are the same pressure and there is no check valve on the quick connector assembly, you should be okay. Regulator pressure is most likely your biggest issue to resolve.

One more thing, propane QDs have their own standards and are different from air and other QDs. Good luck finding one that fits. ACE is a good place to start looking. Be sure to mention and look for "propane" connectors that look just like the one you already have.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by JoeC

One way to find out is to try it. As long as both regulators are the same pressure and there is no check valve on the quick connector assembly, you should be okay. Regulator pressure is most likely your biggest issue to resolve..

[Edit: I wrote the material below without remembering the thread and assuming the topic was just connecting a generator to the propane outlet for a grill, not using the outlet as an inlet.]

I've never tried this, but I suspect it would be very hit or miss using two regulators. I suspect most regulate to the same basic target pressure and if the second is equal to or more than the first that you will get no flow at all. That though is just a guess.

I have though been recently looking at propane generator manuals. The roughly 3,000 watt dual fuel Firman has a regulator that has an electrical connection to the generator, which I assume cuts off fuel when the generator is not running. A roughly 2,000 watt Champion has a shut down procedure that requires shutting off the tank--apparently no ignition cutoff???? You could get around that by adding in a valve on the hose or before the disconnect, and if you were going to get rid of the second regulator that wouldn't be difficult. But the point is there may be more to it than just buying a generator, getting the proper connect and plugging it in.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by DavidM

I dry camp a lot and particularly with a propane generator (which I only use to recharge batteries) I could run out of propane if we are in one place for a long time or there isn't a propane fill place nearby.

What do you guys think? Anyone done this and how does it work?

David

David, I wish to piggyback of Morich's post #10.

What size propane tank do you have now?
Have you ever run out or even come close?
Given your only need is to charge batteries? Are your House Batteries right sized? What size do you have? Is a portable solar charge kit an option?

In our coach, we can fill up our propane tank and go months unless we need the heater for air. We have gas generator to charge batteries but that is 2 - 4 hours a day. How many hours per day are you noticing to charge batteries now?

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

2. Concerns about it "not being a good idea". Why not?

David

Now that I remember what you were thinking . . ., my concern would be somehow damaging the main regulator by having pressure on it from the wrong side. The only reason that concerns me is sometimes with grills you cannot light them up because the regulator isn't flowing gas. The fix is simple, but I don't remember if it's shutting off the grill valves and letting pressure build up, or shutting off the tank valve and releasing pressure.

Anyway, that main regulator is the one component I don't know how it will react. I can't see any reason any other factor would come into play, although I merely doubt (but don't know) that the disconnect has a check valve.

But why can't you just carry an extra tank with you and then swap it out when one of the tanks run empty? Does your system only have one tank or not automatically switch when one tank empties?

And finally, if all you are doing is charging batteries that should not require much propane assuming you don't have too large of a generator. My 3,000 watt generator would probably run over 24 hours off a 20 pound tank just charging batteries, and that is too large of a generator to be efficient for that purpose.

[Blubugger]

I agree with Goodspike, get an extra 20#propane bottle for extended stays and avoid modifying connection systems when dealing with propane. An extra bottle with perhaps a 12foot hose can be used anywhere and does not entail changes to the coach gas supply. Then you can use such a setup for fire pits and a variety of other stock gas products, including any Coleman grills etc.
If the stove/grills are fueled by the 1# propane cylinders you could power them with such a connection [attached photo]. Again, these are also much less $ [and safer!] ad mobile than the RV Extended Stay LP Kit.
Good luck!

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Blubugger

I agree with Goodspike,. . ..

My four favorite words.

If the stove/grills are fueled by the 1# propane cylinders you could power them with such a connection [attached photo]. Again, these are also much less $ [and safer!] ad mobile than the RV Extended Stay LP Kit.
Good luck!

Actually it's probably even cheaper than that in that the generator will probably come with a regulator and hose that connects to the tank.

The OP's idea just seems like it is creating unnecessary work if they are already planning on carrying around an additional tank.

[dkoldman]

In what OP viewed as straightforward question; has kind of got me a tad more confused the more I read? Here is what I understand...

1. OP is saying he is considering buying an RV that has the standard external output connections. So check this as clear because most all RVs will have this

2. Then he says "I dry camp a lot and particularly with a propane generator (which I only use to recharge batteries) I could run out of propane if we are in one place for a long time or there isn't a propane fill place nearby." So I take this is to say how he views he would use the RV if he bought it? or today when he dry camps he has a propane generator today to ONLY charge batteries. It is NOT clear if new RV he is looking at has Propane or Gas Generator?

3. So he states his goal. To be able to Shut off the main tank and then use a portable 20# tank. specifically he states " I want to use propane from the 20# tank for the stove, hot water heater, etc." So I conclude perhaps too much information thus causing the confusion?

I believe and I apologize if I am wrong that the intended question is...

How can I supply propane to my RV's internal propane stove & hot water heater using a portable 20# tank?

[Morich]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

In what OP viewed as straightforward question; has kind of got me a tad more confused the more I read? Here is what I understand...

1. OP is saying he is considering buying an RV that has the standard external output connections. So check this as clear because most all RVs will have this

2. Then he says "I dry camp a lot and particularly with a propane generator (which I only use to recharge batteries) I could run out of propane if we are in one place for a long time or there isn't a propane fill place nearby." So I take this is to say how he views he would use the RV if he bought it? or today when he dry camps he has a propane generator today to ONLY charge batteries. It is NOT clear if new RV he is looking at has Propane or Gas Generator?

3. So he states his goal. To be able to Shut off the main tank and then use a portable 20# tank. specifically he states " I want to use propane from the 20# tank for the stove, hot water heater, etc." So I conclude perhaps too much information thus causing the confusion?

I believe and I apologize if I am wrong that the intended question is...

How can I supply propane to my RV's internal propane stove & hot water heater using a portable 20# tank?

This seems to be pretty clear but also throws some more confusion as not all Rv have a setup for exterior propane. I have never had one that did and might guess that most smaller do not, but that is fully a guess!
So it gets back to the what he has and why he might want to do it in an odd way of feeding propane backward to the normal flow instead of the far more common, simple, and cheap way of adding an extend-a-stay?
Still lots of questions, theories, and suggestions but few answers or info, so that's the way forums often work!
No big thing!
They may be busy, figured it out, or totally lost interest in the project!

[sundog964]

I was thinking this exact thing today, and am glad that I searched first.

My 2020 Vista 29V has an external quick connect at the back of the coach which attaches to a BBQ that came with the RV.

I was wondering if I had another external tank, if I could just use that to supply propane to the internal appliances, stove, heater, refrigerator, etc.

I believe the supplied BBQ does not have a regulator built in to the unit, so the piping must be delivering low pressure propane to the BBQ. So with a regulator on the external tank, it would just be delivering low pressure propane to the internal system.

Seems like it would work, as there is a shutoff valve on the external quick connect, which implies that it is not a one way flow.

[DavidM]

I never got a definitive answer to the question about a check valve, but I agree it is doubtful that it has one. Give it a try and let us know.

As soon as my new Thor Axis arrives I am going to try it as well. It is a nice way to have emergency propane available if you run out far from a propane refill station.

David