Freeze Preperation for 2014 Itasca Meridian 34B

[R2D2]

We are planning a trip mid December that will take us to a couple locations that may be at or near freezing. We will only be overnighting so no extended stays in those temp. I've read that waterline freezing usually doesn't occur unless exposed to freezing temps for 24 or more hours. Is there concurrence on that?

Thanks in advance!

[wahoonc]

It would depend on how cold it actually gets. I usually err on the side of caution.

Aaron 😎

[tim myers]

Your water line would probably be the first thing to freeze as it is exposed on it's full perimeter and length. If you need to use a water line use it to fill your tanks and then disconnect drain and store in a warmer place.



The heat from your Meridian will keep things like your freshwater tank, on board water lines and black and grey tanks 5 or so degrees above the ambient temps, maybe more.


Cant count the number of people I have watched trying to roll up a frozen water hose at state campgrounds in the winter, LOL.

[creativepart]

I can confirm that you don't need to worry about anything except your city water hose between the camp site water supply and your city water input.

We live in South Texas, but travel to high elevations routinely in the late fall and early spring. So, we encounter overnight freezes all the time even as low as 20 degrees overnight. We have NEVER had any issues nor ever winterized our coach.

In fact, we camped in the Texas Panhandle all last week. Highs were in the high 30's and lows in the 20's. We spent a week there and had those temps for 4-days in a row. ZERO issues. We did however fill our fresh tank before going and didn't hook up a hose until the overnight temps were in the mid-30s. We have frozen a hose before if we leave it connected overnight in the 20's.

Be aware, there are folks that don't understand that an overnight freeze is no danger to their RV's plumbing and they will always say, "better safe than sorry." That's fine, but in my 20 years of RVing we've never had an issue - especially since when it's that cold the LP furnace is set to keep us in the low 60's inside the RV.

[Morich]

I go for careful thought and being prepped over having to repair things! Every RV is different, just as the way we use them is different, so what works for one may kill another!
I looked at the plumbing of your RV and see some things that make it look suspect but it also depends on what and how you set up.
If you boondock and reduce heat while using lots of covers to sleep, things freeze sooner. If you are in campgrounds and have power to leave the furnace run to keep the RV comfortable, they don't freeze nearly as often nor as quickly.

when we ran the Northern areas, we had a plan, not just for what was "normal" and when the plan worked but also we had a plan for when things went downhill. Things like a furnace failure can be a real problem if you were planning for it to take care of ALL the heating you might need!
Pilots often wear parachutes, not because they think the plane will fail but because they want a plan "b" handy! We keep a plan "b" in reach!
We almost always have a few things like lights that we could put into spaces where we knew things would freeze if the furnace quit.
Looking at your RV, you have three points shown which would be among the first to freeze if the heat was off. Exterior plumbing at the back, wet bay at the side, and water pump at the front are all points that would make me want a plan "b" !

The 24 hours may work fine if all else works fine but it is a goofy standard to set if you are in the Boundary Waters Area, it's 4 degrees and 20 MPH wind when the furnace fails!
Part of the question has to be what you are doing?
Taking an RV trip to go out on the lake ice fishing has to have a different plan than if you are going out on the lake to water ski!

[creativepart]

Here's the thing... if you winterize for a cold overnight/above freezing day and nothing is damaged you believe it was your winterizing that saved the day.

If you don't winterize for the same conditions and nothing freezes you know that winterizing for those kinds of conditions is not necessary.

So, when asked about winterizing one RVer says "yes, it's necessary" while the other RVer says "no, it's not necessary." Both are correct. But the point of view is different.

[Ray,IN]

Boy do I agree with you on that, creativepart.


R2D2, use your RV the way it was designed, fill the fresh water tank, then store the hose. Only hook up the sewer slinky when you need to dump the tanks.
Lowest temperatures occur between 1 hr before dawn to 1 hr. after dawn. If daytime highs reach 50°F and the lowest temperature does not fall below 27°F, an un-heated RV's plumbing will not freeze.
Since you will be running the LP furnace to stay warm, you have no worries.

[R2D2]

Guys, I appreciate every response!! A lot more info than I had considered! For context this is what we are considering and why I asked the question. We've never cold weather camped before. We are thinking of heading to FL for the winter from Southern California in mid December. We would only be overnighting at each stop. We'll be traveling I-10 so I searched historical weather data along the route. The coldest areas look to be between Tucson to San Antonio; 20's and low 30's at night from what I can see. From there it looks like the overnight temps range from the upper 30's to 40's, so not so concerning.

The consensus seems to be; don't leave hoses out and the heater should keep the coach lines and tanks from freezing. We don't like to use the heater that much at night and just blanket up, however, we'd probably run the heater at a lower set point to help the situation. I do like the idea of lights in the compartment bays as a back up.

Morich, you said one area of concern would be at the back of our MH. Would that be where the water heater is?

Several mentioned to fill the fresh water tank. Is that to help keep it from freezing? We don't use that holding tank for anything but flushing while we travel, so we keep minimal water in it. We only use bottled water for drinking. I have enough other things to do and worry about, so I really don't care to deal with the sanitation issues. Having said that, I sense a scolding coming because I may be overlooking the reason I should care.

Again, I appreciate all of you for helping me with this!!

Thanks!

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Several mentioned to fill the fresh water tank. Is that to help keep it from freezing? We don't use that holding tank for anything but flushing while we travel, so we keep minimal water in it. We only use bottled water for drinking. I have enough other things to do and worry about, so I really don't care to deal with the sanitation issues. Having said that, I sense a scolding coming because I may be overlooking the reason I should care.

Again, I appreciate all of you for helping me with this!!

Thanks!

It is so you will have water to use if the hose is not connected. We typically travel with 20 gallons or so in there for washing hands and flushing the toilet. The only time we will fill it completely is if we think we aren't going to have access to water for a period of time. We have a separate water faucet for bottled water, it draws off a 5-gallon bottle in the storage compartment, it is used for drinking.

We had one situation a few years back where the campground we were staying in was on a well, the power went out due to severe thunderstorms. The first thing I did was fill the fresh water tank full, then went and took a shower at the bath house. Power was out for about 36 hours. The few of us who had the foresight to top our tanks up came out ahead of the game.

Aaron

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Several mentioned to fill the fresh water tank. Is that to help keep it from freezing? We don't use that holding tank for anything but flushing while we travel, so we keep minimal water in it. We only use bottled water for drinking.

Fill the tank because you’ll be living off of that tank for days. Not for drinking, but for flushing, dish washing, hand washing, showering, etc. And since you won’t be using a hose due to overnight freeze chances you’ll need to carry enough water in the fresh tank.

Your route should be no problem without winterization. Sure it can freeze but multiday constant freezes are few and far between. We are in San Antonio, right in the middle of your route and we never winterize, ever.

[Morich]

With more info on this trip, we can do a better job.
There are many times when you can make this trip with no trouble or concerns at all. The problem being that we can't say on any given trip that a cold front doesn't move in at exactly the wrong time. If timing is definite, that makes the trip more involved as we have to figure for the worst or the best!
South Texas is learning what happens when they don't plan for cold weather!

I don't plan my travel to just "get by" but I want to plan so that when things go bad, I have alternates to save the trip. And one of those big picture ideas is that I do not want to get caught where I lay awake all night wondering if the pipes are freezing!
Furnaces don't fail all that often but when they do the RV gets cold in a hurry, so we plan as if it "might" happen and it has bailed us out on a number of trips.

On this trip, just having ideas and planning will be somewhat easy to deal with the extra as it is not at all sure things will go very cold.
Planning the trip to avoid as many nights without power is good as electrical power does so many things.
Cold nights will mean battery power often goes lower and the furnace needs them far more as it runs longer and more often. Having sites with power hookups reduces the odds of crisis situations. Boondocking works battery power really hard and cold weather makes it much more likely you could get cut short!

We run the route you are speaking of fairly often and know the weather can go really good or really bad as the altitude is the control factor combined with weather. We go the 8 or 10 and wind up in Huntington Beach, factoring in the weather ,etc. whether we go San Diego or further North.
But El Paso is named for the "pass" as the high spot! So we tend to build the trip for that section to give us the best chance of not having nagging worry. I don't drive on ice as so many have little idea of what to do with it.
Local advise runs that bridges freeze first so slow down when you get to them. Automatic crash when folks hit their brakes at the overpass!

Once past the high country and at Christmas, you likely have no trouble crossing Texas as it is lower and tends warmer.

But we carry trouble lights and various bulbs to fit what we need if we get caught!

Looking through walls on this interactive parts drawing:
https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm

Click these snips for better view of what I look at!
Side view


Much of your lines will be under the floor but above the compartments and the furnace ductwork is also there from front to back, so the leaking, etc will almost certainly keep much of the plumbing in good shape. The colder the weather the more the furnace runs and more heat loss into the space where the pipes! It takes care of them as long as the furnace runs !

This trip seems no problem if the inside stays warm for you.
for for trips where things get really cold, there are places which can become a worry and made need added heat, depending on how cold and how long or if the furnace stops, etc.
So being aware of where those "suspect" point might be is one way to have plan B handy!


At some point, if you get into a situation where you really want to go in cold weather, being aware is step one. So when I look at what is likely to freeze first, I see several points you might consider as they are on outside walls. Does inside heat get to those spots to leak enough heat through the inside walls to keep those spots okay?
Does the wet bay get heat or does it have a really loose fitting cover to leak more heat? Can you open an inside cabinet door to let inside air go up the wall to keep the lines to faucets warm enough?

I circled three spots to consider but then there is one which gives me pause to worry a bit more.
Do you have lines to a washer connection running along the back wall and up to faucets? Even without a washer installed, those lines may be there and hold water to freeze!
Is there heat getting to those lines from inside or would it be good to hang a trouble light in the space near there when it becomes a question on really cold nights?
The water heater tends to take care of lines near it as it runs more often as it cools quicker, so that end kind of does it's own safety part!

I think you are well in the safe zone but plan as if you were not?

[R2D2]

Thanks guys, understood on the tank fill. We usually carry 1/3 tank which is around 30 gallons. I guess I need to think more about times when the water or power may be off for an extended period though; good advice.

Great to hear that route should not be the problem I imagined. But I'll still use all the advice to be prepared just in case.

Morich, thanks for the schematics! I had not thought about the W/D hoses.

I'll pick up some drop cords to cover those areas just in case because they don't take up much space and could come in handy anyway. Because honestly, I don't think the furnaces are all that reliable. We've had problems keeping them running at times randomly. So we have small space heaters to run in the winter if we need heat (we fulltime). We're not in a freeze zone so this is a first for us.

Again, thank you all for the help and support!

Fred

[tim myers]

For what is is worth, I almost always leave the house with a full tank of fresh water. The Diesel Pushers are designed to carry the weight and with proper sanitation of the water system there is no need to shy away from drinking the water, especially from the filtered tap at the kitchen sink.
Even when I am at a park with water, I still use the water in the tank so the water pump gets exercised. Like most mechanical items it will last longer if it is used frequently.

[R2D2]

Tim, thanks for the feedback. I wish I shared your enthusiasm for stored water. It would be easier for sure, especially with ice. But it's just not something I'm comfortable with. I am glad that it works for you and many others though.

Thanks again!

[Morich]

We also have always used the tank water for most things like bath and cooking.
But we also are aware of the hazards if we left it too long.
I did a short term in water treatment work after I officially retired and that involved doing the work on a community well where training was required and then as a tech for water softeners.
Those two jobs gave me a better idea of what treatment of public water does and doesn't do, so we are able to manage the tank water to keep it safe enough to drink. Our main problem on drinking was the flavor was not what we liked. Fussy about the plastic flavor, perhaps?

We rarely went full time except for maybe 4-5 years and during those years we always had hookups at public water which we trusted, so we had little worry about the safety of the water.
When we were not full time we stayed aware that the tank water was like most water and not treated to remove ALL the bad guys that grow and multiply if given the right conditions. Even bottled water becomes unsafe after it expires, so treatment is almost a constant if we want to be safe.
We started the camping season with doing a super chlor treatment to catch up what may have happened when stored and that knocked the bacteria down to a point where the chlorine residual in treated water would handle getting it down into the safe zone.
One of the things often missed by the public is thinking treated water has no bacteria left! If we treated to that level, the water we drink would also wipe out the bacteria that makes our digestion work.
Kind of like when we drink too much alcohol and kill the bacteria for a couple days?

But it is certainly much handier to stay where the water is known to be treated and watched! We've stayed in a few where we looked it over and decided not to hook up to water and used the tank before moving on the next day!

[R2D2]

That pretty much captures my feelings on the matter. We have only stayed at campgrounds with city/public water connections, so we have not had any untreated water conditions to deal with. Hopefully we never have to. I know the process, so if I ever had to do it, I'm sure I could sanitize our system and keep us safe. Doubt the odor and taste would be something we'd care for though, but it probably wouldn't kill us!

[tim myers]

If you are putting clean water in your fresh water tank and have sanitized your system there shouldn't be any odors or taste to it. Think about it, bottled water is stored in a plastic container.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by R2D2

We are planning a trip mid December that will take us to a couple locations that may be at or near freezing. We will only be overnighting so no extended stays in those temp. I've read that waterline freezing usually doesn't occur unless exposed to freezing temps for 24 or more hours. Is there concurrence on that?

Thanks in advance!

My experience over the years has taught me not to deploy hoses on overnight stays. I will if I need to dump and fill the fresh water tank and then put them away.
When hooked up in freezing temps I let a faucet drip. The dump hose should be empty of standing water. The freeze up will block the hose and restrict dumping.
The gas furnaces will keep the basement heated. Using electric space heaters in the living quarters will defeat the thermostat control. The furnaces use a lot of propane. I have installed an extend-a-stay adapter on my tank and I carry a 40# tank.
Stay safe.
Rick

[R2D2]

Good tip on space heater use vs. onboard thermostats. I see quite a few people install adaptors on their RV's and use 7lb. tanks to swap out; great idea.

[FT RV]

Just run the furnace is what I was told. I had no idea my tanks were heated by it until I opened the bay to put my sewer hose away one cold morning last week up north and my hands got heated up because hot furnace air was blowing in there. All RV's are different, check.