Ford diesel issue

[Joe Newman]

Thanks, good info. Hopefully the complication impact won’t offset the upside of diesel engines.

[DavidM]

Originally Posted by Joe Newman

Thanks, good info. Hopefully the complication impact won’t offset the upside of diesel engines.

Is there an upside? Don't think so, at least not much of one.

Diesels are 20% more efficient than gassers but diesel costs 20% more, so it is a wash.

Diesels have more low speed torque than gassers. But all it takes is more displacement for the gasser to equal or exceed the diesel's torque. A 6.8 liter Ford gasser which some equivalent Class Cs are based on has as much low speed torque as the 3.2 liter Ford diesel.

Diesels last longer. Yes, that is true and is probably the only real upside. But the larger displacement of the equivalent gasser largely compensates with heavier iron for the diesel's wear advantage.

David

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

Diesels are 20% more efficient than gassers but diesel costs 20% more, so it is a wash.

I really don't want to get into the "which is better" argument as there is no real answer. It depends on what you are looking for - lower initial cost or lower monthly expenses - and how much and where you drive.

Having said that, I believe that diesels are more than 20% more efficient than gassers. Our old gasser C used to give us 12 mpg tops while the diesel gives us 17-20 mpg, perhaps 18 mpg average. That is 50% more efficient. The cost differential is less than that would indicate because of DEF and the different costs of the fuel, but in terms of efficiency 50% beats 20%.

[Elaine]

Greetings! I am a new RV owner of a 2017 Fuse and needed to bring it in for a "Service Soon" light. The problem was with the diesel emissions system. It was covered by the warranty. The Apple Valley Ford service department was very helpful! I was only off of the road for a week!

[LuvWildlife]

We’ve never had a DEF problem with our Fuse and it’s been really a pleasant surprise. Having had a sprinter Itasca for two years I have to say our Fuse handles better, needing no stabilization like our Itasca did, and we get better gas mikage as well. It also drives up the mountains with more power too. Like a few others, never heard of a Fuse owner having the DEF problem before. Although I guess it could happen if the def got too low. One othervreason why we bought the ford diesel.
Ours is a 2019.

The only problem we had in 10,000 mi was the fridge turning off too often. I found the problem online here in a post about a View having the same problem with a thermal fuse between the solar panel and control panel. We love our Fuse! Enjoy!

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by LuvWildlife

Like a few others, never heard of a Fuse owner having the DEF problem before. Although I guess it could happen if the def got too low. One othervreason why we bought the ford diesel.
Ours is a 2019.

The DEF in our system was never low. Normally I add DEF as soon as I see the 1/2 level warning, and I check all the time.

The service guy tells me that this is related to the interface between the engine computer and the DEF module, so perhaps it is not the DEF itself. One thing that he mentioned is that this may have some relationship to why the DEF level information sometimes disappeared from the info system in the Fuse. That is, I would scroll through the Information setting and there would be no DEF message at all. When I brought it in for an oil change the last time I showed them that the DEF message was completely missing, but after the oil change it was back.

When I did a Google search about this issue I did find a hit from someone who posted that they had the exact same issue with their 2017 (ours is 2018) and the dealer had to replace a module in the system computer to fix it. Don't know if that is the same problem I have, even though the symptoms are the same.

Our Fuse has been in the shop now for 9 days and no one has yet started to work on it ...

Originally Posted by LuvWildlife

The only problem we had in 10,000 mi was the fridge turning off too often. I found the problem online here in a post about a View having the same problem with a thermal fuse between the solar panel and control panel. We love our Fuse! Enjoy!

Where is this fuse located? On the roof at the solar connection? Or in the coach? Or some place else? And did replacing it fix the issue?

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

Is there an upside? Don't think so, at least not much of one.

Diesels are 20% more efficient than gassers but diesel costs 20% more, so it is a wash.

Diesel is superior for moving heavy loads, which is why you don't see any gasoline powered semi-tractors. And it does it without the sky high RPMs required on some gasoline engines to generate HP.

As to cost, that is regional. In Washington state diesel is consistently cheaper than gasoline, although that did flip at the beginning of the pandemic when gas prices dropped more than gasoline because the truck largely kept operating. It also varies by station, with some stations that don't sell much diesel charging more.

And it's not just about cost. Diesel gets you better range out of a tank of the same size. That's important for RV use.

[DavidM]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Diesel is superior for moving heavy loads, which is why you don't see any gasoline powered semi-tractors. And it does it without the sky high RPMs required on some gasoline engines to generate HP.

My post and the basis of my analysis was comparing a Mercedes Sprinter or Ford diesel based coaches with a 3.6 liter Dodge or 6.8 liter Ford gasser based coaches. I agree the 3.6 liter Dodge does have to pull some high rpms to make the same torque as the diesels. The 6.8 liter Ford Dodge can make the same torque at the same rpm as the diesel and its peak torque is more.

As to cost, that is regional. In Washington state diesel is consistently cheaper than gasoline, although that did flip at the beginning of the pandemic when gas prices dropped more than gasoline because the truck largely kept operating. It also varies by station, with some stations that don't sell much diesel charging more.

Here on the east coast the average difference I have seen is 20% even during the early part of the pandemic when gasoline use plummeted and gas prices should have as well. They didn't as far as I could see.

And it's not just about cost. Diesel gets you better range out of a tank of the same size. That's important for RV use.

The Dodge gasser based coach does have a small tank and is one reason (torque and longevity are others) I wouldn't have one. But the Ford 6.8 liter gassers all have 55 gallon tanks, exactly double the Sprinter based coaches. Even at 50% higher fuel consumption (which I totally disagree) the Ford gasser coach has a longer range.


David

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

The Dodge gasser based coach does have a small tank and is one reason (torque and longevity are others) I wouldn't have one. But the Ford 6.8 liter gassers all have 55 gallon tanks, exactly double the Sprinter based coaches. Even at 50% higher fuel consumption (which I totally disagree) the Ford gasser coach has a longer range.


David

The size of the gas tank is the reason I didn't buy the new Ford Ranger. And I was really looking forward to that truck, still being the owner of a Ranger I bought in 1989. I was their perfect target customer, and they blew it!

But my point was you get more range out of X gallons of diesel compared to gas. So that 55 gallon tank would get you even further with a diesel engine, although the range is certainly adequate with gas. If I were to buy a full size pickup I'd probably go with the large tank gas option than pay the $$$ they want for the large diesel (although the 3.0 diesels are not that expensive).

My parents had a diesel pusher that had incredible range due to a rather large tank. I think it was something in the 100 gallon range, but I really don't know.

Edit: Crap! I just did a Google search and the link says it had a 300 gallon capacity! I remember my dad claiming he could go from Seattle to San Francisco on a tank, but I thought he was exagerating.

http://motnac.com/coachrv/blue_bird/...ty%20300%20Gal.

[Elaine]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Don't know how I missed this one. Kind of funny. In hindsight.
So there are more Ford dealers that can handle diesels, but there are only 2 that can do Transits, and they are hundreds of miles apart? In AZ and UT between Phoenix and SLC?
I see.

I was told that the Transit is a commercial truck. They need to be able to handle the big rigs! I like to think about the fact that my Fuse is a big truck and my other car is a Civic! Both are great and they get great gas mileage!

[AJMike]

Well, finally some progress. I just got a call from the service folks who told me that someone had finally started working on the Fuse and ordered parts. They hope to have something done shortly after Labor Day which means maybe we can finally go someplace.

I asked for the error code and he told me that there were more than one, but that the main one was P204F, and I am listing it in case anyone wants to know. I don't know why there would be more than one error code, but that is what I was told. Here is what Google tells me:

When a code P204F is stored, it means that the powertrain control module (PCM) has detected a malfunction in the reductant portion of the selective catalyst reduction (SCR) system

I suppose that means something to someone.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Elaine

I like to think about the fact that my Fuse is a big truck and my other car is a Civic! Both are great and they get great gas mileage!

I checked where we live here in the Phoenix area and the Ford dealers who are listed as Transit Service Centers who also service RVs apparently do only Class C RVs, so perhaps they also consider them to be big trucks.

[AJMike]

Just to complete this thread, the Fuse has been fixed and is back in storage. As I said I am listing the repair information just in case someone else finds it useful.

There were 2 error codes - P204F and P203D. When the looked they found a recall, 20M02, and replaced the DEF heater/sender assembly. When I looked this recall up online it told me that it was to be done only when the vehicle exhibited the symptoms of the problem. I guess that means that they would not notify people of the problem so they could fix it at their convenience. They would only fix it when it failed. How does that make any sense?

Anyway, all covered under warranty so we are planning a trip now that we can actually go somewhere again.

I have seen some of the posts that talked about how fragile the diesel DEF systems are and now I understand what they meant. This experience has definitely taken the shine off of the diesel for me, at least in the short term.