Radical approach to keeping pipes from freezing in winter

Donavan · 10-21-2022, 11:06 AM

Hello everyone. I had a radical approach to keeping my pipes from freezing in winter.I plan on camping on weekends so during the weekdays it's going to be in a storage with no hook ups. I wonder if it's going to be costly to run the furnace at low setting to keep the pipes from freezing.Also, I wonder if it's going to be good enough. any feedback is appreciated

**creativepart** · 10-21-2022, 01:52 PM

Nope, not good enough. There are still parts of your RV that are not heated and too exposed to freezing.

Costly, yes in propane. But the big cost will be tearing apart the walls and underside of your RV to replace the busted pipes.

You either remove ALL traces of water OR you replace the water with anti-freeze. I suppose another choice is to park your RV in a fully enclosed and heated storage facility.

Morich · 10-21-2022, 01:57 PM

Got a plan for keeping the batteries up to run the furnace?

Way too much risk for me to even begin to consider. Things like the furnace tend to break down and do it more often when the weather gets cold. You do live where it gets cold, if I'm guessing right? Like REALLY cold!

Don't forget to replace the water heater!

Ray,IN · 10-21-2022, 06:04 PM

Good idea, implementation time consuming plus approx. $12/week for RV antifreeze.. Heated storage unit would be best option.

Morich · 10-21-2022, 08:19 PM

The pipes are really one of the cheaper things that are likely to freeze when I consider what it takes to replace any of the holding tanks, water heater, and drain valves on black and grey tanks.

Then you also get to consider what damage is done if things freeze and break but thaw before you get back to the RV. Does it do in the floor, base of cabinets or where does it stop? Does anybody really want to think about cleaning 20-30gallons of black waste out of the basement compartments???

be happy · 10-22-2022, 03:05 AM

Your profile shows you live in Canada. I would really take the advice of the folks who posted before me. I think to sum it up NO would fit in very well.

Good Luck however

bigb · 10-22-2022, 07:17 AM

Some folks use their campers in freezing weather but they keep the water system dry and carry cooking/drinking water in jugs and put antifreeze in the holding tanks and flush the toilet with jugs as well. A lot of skiers do this when they take their vans and small motorhomes to the ski areas and park them. Way less risk and hassle than winterizing every week.

**creativepart** · 10-22-2022, 07:42 AM

One thing people seem to forget about freezing is that the danger is caused by water in a constricted space freezing and expanding. In a pipe this blockage causes pressure buildup that busts the pipe, relieving the pressure.

So unless your tanks are completely full some freezing in your tanks isn’t a cause of damage. Put a bottle half full of water with no cap on it in your freezer. The water freezes but nothing breaks. Put a full water bottle with a cap on it in your freezer and the bottle breaks from the expansion and pressure buildup.

So if your grey/black tanks have a few gallons of water in them, since they are not “capped” nothing happens if they freeze. There will just be ice in them. They will not split open and be ruined.

This isn’t so for pipes. Just like your fresh water hose will freeze on the ground. So will the pipes in your walls. If the system is pressurized the pipes will burst. So this is what you are trying to prevent with antifreeze.

bigb · 10-22-2022, 07:44 AM

I think the reason for putting antifreeze in the holding tanks is to enable you to empty them.

**creativepart** · 10-22-2022, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigb

I think the reason for putting antifreeze in the holding tanks is to enable you to empty them.

Absolutely. But some think freezing will automatically ruin tanks.

backtrack15 · 10-22-2022, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigb

Some folks use their campers in freezing weather but they keep the water system dry and carry cooking/drinking water in jugs and put antifreeze in the holding tanks and flush the toilet with jugs as well. A lot of skiers do this when they take their vans and small motorhomes to the ski areas and park them. Way less risk and hassle than winterizing every week.

I agree with this. It’s relatively easy to just use water from jugs. Then just chase it after the trip with some antifreeze in the various drains/toilet (not much needed).

Morich · 10-22-2022, 08:05 AM

I find this is a bit more difficult to figure than simple expansion and pressure building. What I see on bird baths that freeze and break makes me think tanks may freeze and break with only a few inches of waste in them!

We broke a concrete bird bath with a sloped/rounded bottom when we froze up here---just because I said the rounded bottom would not break! I thought any pressure would have plenty of room to expand upwards!

But, really I have seen old RV that had broken tanks and they were considered beyond recovery which makes me not even think about risking the broken holding tanks!
A holding tank with contents will mean the drains are full down to the dump valves and those are often quicker to freeze than the tanks.

powercat_ras · 10-22-2022, 11:13 AM

Agree that occasional use in winter works well to carry water in partially filled jugs (so they don't burst just in case it gets below freezing inside the RV with the jugs inside) and just leave the fresh water system winterized. I have also not had any issues with having a liquid in the grey and black tanks, I've never let them get more than 1/3 full just to minimize the risk.

One area I had issues with was the water filter on the inlet side of the SurFlo Water Pump. If there is any water in them at all and it freezes, they break, I figured out that when winterizing I always remove the plastic filter cap off the filter block and sit it next to the water pump.

One other consideration when using RV in cold weather: If you have a absorbtion refrigerator the liquid solution in the tubing can freeze if outside temps drop below around 20F, this does not harm the unit when it is left off and not started until temps have been warm long enough that the liquid solution is thawed. If the fridge tries to run while the solution is frozen the boiler will overheat and sodium chromate crystals will form in the tubing and damage the unit.

An ARP Fridge Defend will shut down the fridge boiler heat source before it can overheat the boiler and damage the unit, in case you forget and try to start the refrigerator after it has been very cold and the solution is still frozen and not thawed out yet.

Donavan · 10-25-2022, 02:17 PM

Does the model of the RV make any difference? My basement has vents that let the warmed air to circulate where the tanks are. If I set the thermostat to 50 and leave it, would that not keep the basement and the pipes in the walls warm enough to not freeze? This won't cost much in terms of propane and battery is not an issue either. I mean if dewinterize in the middle of the winter and take it out to camping, nothing will freeze as I am camping since the furnace will be on and air will be vented to basement too. This will just be the same except the RV will be sitting in a parking lot instead of at a campsite with me in it. Sure, I'll keep the temp at 60 when camping but down to 50 is not a game changer in my opinion. I'm in Vancouver so it doesn't get too cold in Winter, not your typical Canada. I guess there is a valid point to furnace failing at some point but other than that, I don't really see the downside unless I'm missing something.

Donavan · 10-25-2022, 02:19 PM

Thank your for sharing. What parts are not heated? Wouldn't vented basement circulate warm air all around?

Wyatt · 10-25-2022, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

One thing people seem to forget about freezing is that the danger is caused by water in a constricted space freezing and expanding. In a pipe this blockage causes pressure buildup that busts the pipe, relieving the pressure.

So unless your tanks are completely full some freezing in your tanks isn’t a cause of damage. Put a bottle half full of water with no cap on it in your freezer. The water freezes but nothing breaks. Put a full water bottle with a cap on it in your freezer and the bottle breaks from the expansion and pressure buildup.

So if your grey/black tanks have a few gallons of water in them, since they are not “capped” nothing happens if they freeze. There will just be ice in them. They will not split open and be ruined.

This isn’t so for pipes. Just like your fresh water hose will freeze on the ground. So will the pipes in your walls. If the system is pressurized the pipes will burst. So this is what you are trying to prevent with antifreeze.

Now I live in the Mid Peninsula of California and such really have no idea what freezing temperatures are like. So I’m kind of ignorant on this. What if one left all of their valves open in the sinks, bathroom, etc. wouldn’t the expansion be able to expand into uninhibited space?

bigb · 10-25-2022, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyatt

Now I live in the Mid Peninsula of California and such really have no idea what freezing temperatures are like. So I’m kind of ignorant on this. What if one left all of their valves open in the sinks, bathroom, etc. wouldn’t the expansion be able to expand into uninhibited space?

In short, no. At least with copper, we see the water freeze at the extremity of the pipe and when the ice expands the pressure behind it has nowhere to go and it splits the pipe inside the wall. I know PEX has a bit of stretch to it but I've never been brave enough to test it in freezing weather, which we get very little of also.

Vectra2020 · 10-26-2022, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donavan

Does the model of the RV make any difference? My basement has vents that let the warmed air to circulate where the tanks are. If I set the thermostat to 50 and leave it, would that not keep the basement and the pipes in the walls warm enough to not freeze? This won't cost much in terms of propane and battery is not an issue either. I mean if dewinterize in the middle of the winter and take it out to camping, nothing will freeze as I am camping since the furnace will be on and air will be vented to basement too. This will just be the same except the RV will be sitting in a parking lot instead of at a campsite with me in it. Sure, I'll keep the temp at 60 when camping but down to 50 is not a game changer in my opinion. I'm in Vancouver so it doesn't get too cold in Winter, not your typical Canada. I guess there is a valid point to furnace failing at some point but other than that, I don't really see the downside unless I'm missing something.

I winter in Victoria with a class A, and sometimes I need to travel home for a couple of weeks, have left the MH furnace set to the heat pump, and to around 50, which is enough to keep the basement area above freezing, I do have a relative who lives in the area and I get them to check on it once in a while to ensure everything is still working ( fridge, furnace etc)

2lgdterrier · 10-26-2022, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donavan

Does the model of the RV make any difference? My basement has vents that let the warmed air to circulate where the tanks are. If I set the thermostat to 50 and leave it, would that not keep the basement and the pipes in the walls warm enough to not freeze? This won't cost much in terms of propane and battery is not an issue either. I mean if dewinterize in the middle of the winter and take it out to camping, nothing will freeze as I am camping since the furnace will be on and air will be vented to basement too. This will just be the same except the RV will be sitting in a parking lot instead of at a campsite with me in it. Sure, I'll keep the temp at 60 when camping but down to 50 is not a game changer in my opinion. I'm in Vancouver so it doesn't get too cold in Winter, not your typical Canada. I guess there is a valid point to furnace failing at some point but other than that, I don't really see the downside unless I'm missing something.

I live in Vancouver and also have an RV I cannot, sorry to say, believe you are contemplating this. Disaster is in your RV’s future Im sorry to say.

John Mo · 10-27-2022, 06:54 AM

I've done something similar, except I only left mine unoccupied on weekends.

I used my Winnie as housing for an out-of-town job for 39 months straight. Lived in it through the week and went home on weekends.

It's going to depend on the specifics of your unit, but for mine I used a heated fresh water hose, a ceramic heater in the wet bay, and the furnace to get through the winters. Through the day and over weekends, I left the furnace set on 40 or 45, depending on the forecast - warmer when the outside temps were going lower.

I had 2 large external propane tanks on a cutover valve supplied by the campground, so running out of propane wasn't an issue.

I did winterize with antifreeze a couple of times over the holidays when I was away from the unit for a full week or more.

There was one time I had a partial freeze-up. I had been away and it was extraordinarily cold. The supply line in the floor from the driver side to the kitchen sink and hot water tank on the passenger side froze. I had all the cold water I wanted in the bathroom, but nothing at the kitchen sink and no hot anywhere. I set a ceramic heater in the floor about where I thought that line should run, cranked the furnace, and went to pick up a pizza. Water was moving when I got back and there was no permanent damage.