2018 Intent 26M Boondocking with residential fridge

[Dirtdad]

I posted this before, but its not there, so Ill do it again. My new to me 2018 Intent 26M came with a small residential fridge, 7.3 cubic feet, Danby brand. Honestly, I didnt realize it was a residential, 110 volt only fridge. A basic fridge, no ice maker, or water. I just have 2, lead acid batteries, a generator, and I assume, an inverter. The manual says that basically, once I turn the motor off, the fridge will drain the batteries quickly. As I do a fair amount of dry camping, this is not good. What to do? Do I replace the fridge with a gas/electric RV fridge, or do I try solar panels. If I do solar panels, do I need lithium batteries?
I called Danby, and the fridge uses 90 watts per hour when its running, but the compressor on a fridge doesnt run all the time?
Looking for advice that takes into account cost/benefits.
Thanks in advance for all and any suggestions.

[creativepart]

First don’t panic. Yes, bigger batteries is an excellent first step. Solar panels wouldn’t hurt either. Lithium is great, but you don’t have to start there.

Replacing the fridge is likely the most expensive option and the Intent doesn’t carry a lot of propane, if I remember correctly.

You bought an RV not set up for lengthy dry camping or boondocking. Start by doing some research on how much battery amp hours you have and how much you can easily add. If you’re not up for installing solar on your roof just yet, you could get some portable panels to give you some power.

Lots of members her with Intents like yours. I’m sure they’ll chime in.

[tim myers]

Can you take a look at your existing batteries and tell us how many Amp Hours (AH) for each battery, they should match.

[Dirtdad]

My batteries are Napa 8231 n, about 2 months old. I'm sure they are lead acid. Funny, they both have the same manufacturing date, same part number, but one says 800 mca at 32 degrees, 650 cca at 0, the other one says 860, and 700. Don't know how that translates to ah. Both are group 31, which apparently on average have 90 to 100 ah.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Dirtdad

My batteries are Napa 8231 n, about 2 months old. I'm sure they are lead acid. Funny, they both have the same manufacturing date, same part number, but one says 800 mca at 32 degrees, 650 cca at 0, the other one says 860, and 700. Don't know how that translates to ah. Both are group 31, which apparently on average have 90 to 100 ah.

Yes, according to the data sheet those are 100aH "dual purpose" Marine/Deep Cycle batteries. And yes they are flooded lead acid. So you need to keep checking their water level throughout their life.

The "Marine/Deep Cycle" is often used in RVs but is engineered for boat engine starting and electric trolling motor operation. This means it's kind of a deep cycle battery but kind of a starting battery, too.

Don't worry about this fact for the few good years you'll get out of them. They'll provide 100amps each and since they are 12v they are wired in Parallel, which means you have a combined 200aH of battery.

The thing is with Lead Acid batteries is that if you use all of those amps you can damage the battery and shorten its useful life. The rule of thumb is consistent 50% depth of discharge is fine. But, the more times you go deeper to fully deplete the battery the shorter it's lifetime will be. Some obsess about this and feel the 50% "rule" is hard and fast, but I agree with others that say that using the battery is what it's there for. You don't want to abuse it, but as long as you don't hold a LA battery at 20% DoD for weeks on end, you'll be fine.

Since you are thinking of adding to your battery bank then you should do it ASAP. Adding new batteries to a bank of used batteries can degrade the whole bank. Best would be to get the same battery or close in spec to the current batteries. And, since you're in Parallel wiring you can add one or two or more batteries - it won't matter if the number is even or odd. This will add 100aH for each battery. So, one more will give you 300aH of storage.

Sticking with the LA battery type will mean no changes are needed to your Converter/charger or worries about alternator charging.

One thing you should consider is adding a shunt-based battery monitor. Your RV has a voltage based monitor, but those are very poor at giving you a true picture of your batteries true state of charge. A shunt will count all the amps in and out of your battery bank and show your SOC in percentages. This is vital for boondocking/dry camping.

There are a number of shunt battery monitors - the Victron are super popular because they can be had with built in Bluetooth and you can read about and track your battery's performance on a smartphone via their app.

Installing a battery monitor is a fairly easy DIY job and they don't cost a lot to purchase. The super handy Victron Smartshunt is something like $130.

Hope all of this helps you in figuring out how to best outfit for boondocking your Intent RV.

[Dirtdad]

Thank you so much for the information. My biggest concern currently, is being able to run the residential style refrigerator that came with the motorhome. Looking for ideas on how to do that. Or am I better off switching it out for an RV fridge. I'm willing to explore solar, but know nothing about it.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Dirtdad

Looking for ideas on how to do that. Or am I better off switching it out for an RV fridge. I'm willing to explore solar, but know nothing about it.

Switching to a gas/absorption fridge is not really an option. First, you don't have a large Propane tank, and next there would be venting issues and the cost would be pretty prohibiting.

Solar and extra batteries would be the cheapest option.

Some 12v RV fridges have a "night" mode that uses less power, does yours have that?

Plan on running your generator in the morning for an hour or two, at lunch or anytime you're using the microwave or coffee maker, etc and another 1 1/2 to 2 hours in the evening during dinner prep.

The goal is to go to bed with your batteries at 100% SOC and let your fridge do it's thing all night. Then start recharging the batteries right away in the morning.

This is where solar would help because you can basically keep up with the fridge all day when there's good sunlight. This can really lessen your generator run times.

If you don't want to learn all about solar, and do a big DIY solar install then get 200w to 400w of portable panels that you just put out at your campsite and connect to your battery bank. Plus, you can move them about to get the most solar production.

The other option is to spend money on Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries. They are great, I have them, but it's an expensive rabbit hole to go down as a new RV owner.

One last, expensive quick solution is to buy a sizable "solar generator" which is really just a LFP battery with an inverter built in and a way to connect portable solar panels. These can be a great option but can cost $2000 to $4000. Price = power in this case so buying a cheaper one will mean you won't get much benefit from it.

[dkoldman]

Sounds like, you may have just bought, but maybe not fulling all of your needs? Is selling an option?

If this is already a concern, short a full blown Lithium solution, I don't think you will be happy.

My RV Fridge (inside) was not wired to my Inverter. I did myself and I can get about 2 hours before draining my batteries ( down to 12.4vdc). I only use electric setting on my RV fridge when I have SP or engine alternator is running which is charging the house batteries.

As a rule, I NEVER let my batteries drop below 12.4vdc. Just my thing. My outside fridge which is smaller, and all electric can run all day off the inverter. I dumped my OEM NAPA Grp 27 and bought two new VMax Tanks and got 125ah each. That will not put a dent in your problem though.

I should add that when boondocking we run genny 2-3 hrs a day. The AGS does all of this for automatically. Note, when boondocking our inside fridge is always on gas, which is not a viable option for you, thus I say is buying a new a coach an option?

[LOG]

Dirtdad,
You really do not have a significant problem.
Creativepart actually gave you all the information you need.
Run your generator a couple of hours in the morning and a couple of hours in the evening.
Most of the time you would do this to make coffee and breakfast in the morning and watch tv and make dinner in the evening.
Your refrigerator will draw approximately 45 DC amps per 12 hours if the refrigerator cycles 50 percent of the time. A little more if it cycles more.
You have 200 amp hours of battery. That means you have another 45 amps per 12 hours to run DC lights and other things.
Your inverter probably does not have a charger. But your converter most likely has at least a 45 amp battery charger.
If you have room, add another one or two batteries (same as you have now) and that will make things better.
You are a lot better off with that refrigerator than you would be with a propane refrigerator. Better cooling and far more safe.

Larry

[MadMaxWinny]

It's all a matter of an energy budget. That fridge draws about 7.5 amps DC, not counting inverter inefficiencies. Call it 10 amps for round numbers. You've got 200 amp-hrs of battery (Warning: those Napa batteries are very poor quality). So you've safely got 10-15 hours of refrigeration, with NO other loads considered.

The simplest solution is to double your battery capacity and make sure you have at least a 40 amp charger (bigger is better: a 130 amp charger would take you from 50% discharge to 10% in 90 minutes). As already mentioned, plan on at least one hour of genset run time in the morning, and one hour in the evening. Solar won't help you for the expense. Lithium won't either. The good news is that four new batteries (something better like AGM) AND a good battery monitor (so that you know when you need to charge) will still be much cheaper than a new fridge.

[dkoldman]

I agree with MadMaxVinny, but I will take proposition bets that the OP can't run that fridge for 6 hours off Inverter /Batteries. OP may have 200AH but effectively only has 100Ah to use.

I was all set to buy a Thor ACE 29.3, my wife had fallen in love with the Residential fridge. It became a must have for us. But every coach we could find had issues with the batteries. We thought strange of it. We wanted new although plenty Used ones were to be found. in 2019 Thor discontinued to make them to our surprise. Official word from Thor was they could not get the residential fridges anymore, but word on the street was too many issues with Inverter / Battery packages.

OP need at least double the existing batteries and should buy max AH/battery available. I agree it may not be a major problem for OP if they can get use to not always having the fridge available and ice cold. It is absolute requirement for me that my fridge be running 24/7 whenever I am using the RV. I don't want to be tracking how many hours every day

[LOG]

I agree with MadMaxWinny, the OP can safely get 10 hours of operation. And, that is if the refrigerator runs all the time for the 10 hours.

With all due respect, how many residential refrigerators do you know that run 100% of the time. Most cycle. And, I bet the OP's cycles also.

And, keep in mind, that the RV fridge (absorption) used in one of the post above, uses approximately 30 DC amp hours per hour when running on AC.

Larry
2012 Winnebago Journey 34Y
Previous motorhomes: 2007 26P Itasca Sunova, 2004 36 Foretravel U270, 2005 Chinook Glacier.
13 years and 77,000 miles of RV travel

[LOG]

I stand corrected. Some small RV fridges only use approximately 10 amp hours per hour when run on AC using an inverter.

I guess all my previously owned motorhomes had larger refrigerators.

[BobC]

As creativepart mentioned, sticking with lead acid (LA) batteries is your best bet but you needn't stick with flooded LA (FLA) batteries. AGM batteries are LA batteries and don't require any maintenance. Four 100AH deep cycle AGM batteries would be a good choice and would work with your current converter/charger. 100 Ah AGM batteries run about $180 ea. I've read where some say all AGMs are deep cycle, but it's not consistent. Personally I'd stay away from anything with CCA in their specs since they've clearly been designed as dual-purpose batteries. Here's one name brand deep cycle option as an example:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075RFXHYK...=100ah%2B&th=1

If they'll fit (height may be a problem), another option is four FLA 200Ah 6V golf cart batteries. You'd connect two pairs in series, essentially giving you two 12V batteries. These two pairs would then be connected in parallel. As long as you maintain them, this is a rugged, efficient, low cost option at about $120 ea from Sam's Club or Costco. This will give you the same 400Ah as four 100Ah AGM batteries.

Rather than to into the details here, this link will show you how to do this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=conn...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Having had golf cart batteries for years, I can attest to their durability. On the other hand, if I were to replace them today, I'd probably go for the AGMs.

I'm sure someone will recommend lithium, or more specifically LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate batteries. They're a great option but I wouldn't advise jumping to them right away until you have some more knowledge of them. They will require a new charging system and other mods. They're not a drop-in option.
In terms of efficiency and life cycle cost, they're definitely the best long-term option. Although some are available for less than $300 ea, you need to be very careful. There are large quality differences. The previous options will buy you some time as you educate yourself and as the prices for quality LiFePO4 batteries continues to drop.

[YGoHom]

I had the same scenario with our 2018 26M.
As others have said, the NAPA batteries are junk for boondocking with a residential fridge.
We have since sold the Winnie, but this is what we had while camping at Southern California beaches…
“I put 4-100w Renogy panels on the roof, wired series/parallel, with a Victron MPPT SmartSolar 100/30 controller. This has been great for us, even in winter, and kept two 6v batteries (230a/h(?) Duracell from Batteries Plus) fully charged with both residential refrigerators, water pump, furnace, lights, tv, cell phone chargers, and 2 laptops while working.”
I ran the wiring down the bathroom wall from the roof.
The solar controller was in the passenger side compartment near the batteries.

[BobC]

Dirtdad-

Let us know what you end up doing. We like to hear "the rest of the story".

[Dirtdad]

This weekend I am installing a 400 watt kit from Renogy. Its very encouraging to hear Ygohom say how well his system worked. Ill post details after I finish. By the way, YgoHom, I'm familiar with your blue class 11 bug from Samba, very nice. I also built a ' 71 class 11, also blue. With the intention of using it as a toad, but the rear seat area., and getting in and out didn't work for our 60 lb. dog. So I sold it and now have a W.rangler. Also a glass buggy. I miss the class 11.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Dirtdad

This weekend I am installing a 400 watt kit from Renogy. Its very encouraging to hear Ygohom say how well his system worked. Ill post details after I finish. By the way, YgoHom, I'm familiar with your blue class 11 bug from Samba, very nice. I also built a ' 71 class 11, also blue. With the intention of using it as a toad, but the rear seat area., and getting in and out didn't work for our 60 lb. dog. So I sold it and now have a W.rangler. Also a glass buggy. I miss the class 11.

How about batteries? A solar system won't be able to function adequately without an adequate battery bank.

[Dirtdad]

The house batteries are less than a year old, 2 Napa group 31. I have already installed a Renogy battery monitor, and did a test charging the batteries to full, and running the fridge and some lights. It took 22 hours for the batteries to dip below 12 volts. So I'm going to use them until they die, and then probably get 2 golf cart batteries