Boondocking with Residential Refer

Socaldj1 · 01-12-2022, 10:15 PM

I have a Meridian with the single solar panel on top. How long can I go without starting the generator if we are very careful with lights and other 12v draw inside? How much longer would 2 panels get me?

FIRE UP · 01-12-2022, 11:05 PM

Pretty much none of us can really give you and accurate answer. Each coach, and each set of owners will operate differently and the draws on the electrical system, however minute they are, will have different effects. If you plan on doing lots of boon docking, I'd invest in as much solar as you can afford and, whatever will fit on top of your rig. Most of the latest models of residential fridges that are installed in coaches are pretty efficient. But, they still need to run every now and then to keep things cold.

As smart move would be to park your coach at home and start out with a cold fridge. Disconnect any shore power and simply act as you would if you were camping and see what kind of results you obtain in terms of how long your batteries last and your fridge remains good and cold. Then, that will tell you what you need to know to make improvements so greater longevity can be attained. Good luck.
Scott

gurroz · 01-13-2022, 07:10 AM

It's not so much about how many solar panels you have, it's more about your battery pack. What type of batteries do you have? How many amp-hours total? You may be able to deploy additional portable solar panels allowing you to reposition throughout the day for optimum sun.

BobC · 01-13-2022, 07:24 AM

It's also not how many panels, it's how many watts. Residential refrigerator aside, I'd want a minimum of 200W for general purposes. And also how long will you tolerate running your generator is going to be another issue along with how much additional power you use. Inverter powered coffee makers, hair dryers and the like will suck up your battery power.

There are quite a few recent posts on this topic both here and on Winnieowners' sister site, IRV2.com.

DavidM · 01-13-2022, 07:42 AM

I agree with all of the above comments but let me answer in a techno geeky way. If you also are a bit TG, you can figure out your answer from the following:

A large, >15 cu ft residential fridge uses a lot of DC power while boondocking. At least 75 amp hours daily. Your other DC needs probably are about 25 amp hours daily, so a total of 100 amp hours used each day.

It will take 300-400 watts of panels to produce that much energy on a mostly sunny day. When it gets cloudy or you are shaded by trees, it drops to a fraction of that.

But your batteries can keep you goind for a while, with or without solar power. Take the amp hour capacity of your batteries, divide by two if they are lead acid to keep them from going below 50% for best life and divide that result by 100 amp hours used daily. That will give you the number of days, or fraction of a day that you can run with no solar. Add back any solar power you are producing which will extend that number.

The other issue is generator running time. Most converter/chargers don't put out anything near their rated capacity, at least not for long when charging lead acid batteries. It might take running your generator 3-4 hours to put back the 100 amp hours you use in a day.

David

**creativepart** · 01-13-2022, 09:28 AM

My 2017 Adventurer has a 3-door residential fridge, 300w of solar panels, a 2000w pure sine wave inverter and 4-100 aH AGM batteries

This will run my residential fridge and a few light loads for 12 hrs overnight or ~16 hrs during the day.

This is limiting the battery draw to no more than ~50%. AND it requires that I run the generator 1 hr in the morning and ~1.5 - 2 hrs in the evening.

Dry camping you should expect to run the generator at least twice a day - when you wake and prepare breakfast and in the evening as you prepare dinner. Additionally, any time you use the microwave.

If it’s cold and you’re running a furnace with a fan, you’ll need to expect to add some extra time for those generator run times.

Install a shunt-based battery monitor before you attempt any prolonged dry camping trip.

Socaldj1 · 01-13-2022, 09:55 AM

Thanks I have the Same refer and I think I will add 2 panels to get 300w I wont boondock more than 1 night before being back on the road which will recharge Now I have some idea if I were to go to the desert.

jerichorick · 01-20-2022, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socaldj1

I have a Meridian with the single solar panel on top. How long can I go without starting the generator if we are very careful with lights and other 12v draw inside? How much longer would 2 panels get me?

As others have stated, that little solar panel is of no account. I have gone for 12 hrs, as I recall, with no problem. It depends on a few factors.
1/ What is your start voltage set to on in you Auto Start settings? You need to set a voltage that is healthy for the batteries but not so high that it is a nuisance.

2/ If you use the microwave your battery reserve is compromised.
3/ Any 12V power draws add up. Your inverter is a power draw. If you use a toaster, coffee maker, hair dryer, etc you are draining your battery bank.
The Command 30 is designed to top off the battery when in the Quiet mode before the start time. It's a good idea to simply monitor your battery.

Please note. The battery readings do not agree when comparing the OnePlace and the Magnum. Measure your battery at the terminals and see which is closest. Set your generator using the low and high values you want. Your inverter needs to be adjusted also. Think this through and come up with your own values.
Hope this helps.
Rick Y

**creativepart** · 01-20-2022, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerichorick

1/ What is your start voltage set to on in you Auto Start settings? You need to set a voltage that is healthy for the batteries but not so high that it is a nuisance.

Two weeks ago we dry camped at a Harvest Host location in New Mexico.

I had only used the EC30 for auto Gen start (AGS) one other time more than a year ago and made a number of initial setup errors. It’s not the most intuitive device. But this time I did better.

That failed first time I had set Quiet Hours when none were needed and the inverter Low Voltage Cutoff (LVCO) setting too high and the inverter cutoff in the middle of the night without the generator starting at all.

So, this time I worked on my settings and did better, but not perfectly. One thing to remember is that your battery voltage sags momentarily when a load is placed on it. When you set the inverter LVCO to a voltage like 12.2v so that you only use 50% of your battery, you’ll drop below that voltage easily just for a second with a heavy load and the inverter will cut off.

Likewise, if you set you generator to auto start at something similar your generator will roar to life every time the furnace starts up.

Setting the LVCO and the AGS voltages is a trial and error effort due to the nature of battery voltages and the various loads you have on your RV.

As an FYI I now use 11.9v as my low voltage setting. That’s not ideal in all circumstances but seems to work the best in most instances so far.

jerichorick · 01-22-2022, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

Two weeks ago we dry camped at a Harvest Host location in New Mexico.

I had only used the EC30 for auto Gen start (AGS) one other time more than a year ago and made a number of initial setup errors. It’s not the most intuitive device. But this time I did better.

That failed first time I had set Quiet Hours when none were needed and the inverter Low Voltage Cutoff (LVCO) setting too high and the inverter cutoff in the middle of the night without the generator starting at all.

So, this time I worked on my settings and did better, but not perfectly. One thing to remember is that your battery voltage sags momentarily when a load is placed on it. When you set the inverter LVCO to a voltage like 12.2v so that you only use 50% of your battery, you’ll drop below that voltage easily just for a second with a heavy load and the inverter will cut off.

Likewise, if you set you generator to auto start at something similar your generator will roar to life every time the furnace starts up.

Setting the LVCO and the AGS voltages is a trial and error effort due to the nature of battery voltages and the various loads you have on your RV.

As an FYI I now use 11.9v as my low voltage setting. That’s not ideal in all circumstances but seems to work the best in most instances so far.

Nice followup.

That's about what I have. And yes, the setup is not easy. I find that the Auto Start sensitivity is a real life problem when running the microwave. It sees the trigger voltage, if set to a healthy value for the battery, and fires off when not really needed. I am tempted to add a larger gauge wire to the inverter from the battery to see if that stops the apparent low voltage under heavy load.

**creativepart** · 01-22-2022, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I find that the Auto Start sensitivity is a real life problem when running the microwave. It sees the trigger voltage, if set to a healthy value for the battery, and fires off when not really needed.

Another possible solution, I believe, is to install a Magnum AGS. This is about $200 and connects the inverter to the Onan and gives you more setup options than the EC30 does. Then you'd not use the AGS section of the EC30 and configure the Magnum AGS for all of your auto gen start needs - state of charge, voltage, time, temperature, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-Energy.../dp/B00A6XGLKO

I have the Magnum BMK installed (and a Victron BMK, too) so, that might be necessary for the Magnum AGS to control the genset based on SOC.

Oh, you would also need to have the ME-ARC50 remote as well rather than the basic 3 button remote - that's another $200 upgrade. I have this remote (it's required for the ME-BMK) and it's a much more full featured way to control your inverter.

Magnum does have a "Stand Alone" version of the AGS with it's own remote for folks that don't upgrade to the ARC series remotes.

https://www.amazon.com/MAGNUM-MAGN-M.../dp/B00F91TE7K

I have not gone this route myself yet - but I've read up on it and it seems much more intuitive than the EC30.

**creativepart** · 01-22-2022, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I am tempted to add a larger gauge wire to the inverter from the battery to see if that stops the apparent low voltage under heavy load.

I have at least a 6 ga wire, if not 4ga between my inverter and the battery bank which is close by - inverter on the passenger side and batteries on the drivers side but otherwise side by side - and I still see this drop. I think it may be inherent in the way the load hits the batteries.

jerichorick · 01-23-2022, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

I have at least a 6 ga wire, if not 4ga between my inverter and the battery bank which is close by - inverter on the passenger side and batteries on the drivers side but otherwise side by side - and I still see this drop. I think it may be inherent in the way the load hits the batteries.

Either 6 or 4AWG is too small IMHO. 2/0AWG is the minimum if you are pulling over 100ADC to get minimum loss. My battery to inverter run is at least 5' and I think it is 2/0 wire. My microwave pulls around 140ADC. When I run the microwave the voltage readings at the Magnum drop several tenths. If the battery is a bit low to start off, the drop triggers the generator. I have 6 Group 31 AGM batteries that are about a year or so old. I don't recall the Ah rating of the bank.