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Old 08-02-2014, 03:34 PM   #1
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2011 Winnebago Tour ACs

I have a 2011 Winnebago Tour with 3 Coleman Mach Model 49023A879 rooftop ACs. Two of the 3 ACs are loose and allowing rainwater to blow in through the ceiling ducts. Are these ACs mounted with top-down bolts/brackets? If so, how do I access them?
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Old 08-02-2014, 03:44 PM   #2
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I have a 2011 Winnebago Tour with 3 Coleman Mach Model 49023A879 rooftop ACs. Two of the 3 ACs are loose and allowing rainwater to blow in through the ceiling ducts. Are these ACs mounted with top-down bolts/brackets? If so, how do I access them?

Remove 4 Philip screws to remove the cover. Then remove 4 10mm nuts to remove the inner cover. Then you will see 4 bolts with springs under them. Should be able to tighten them to pull the unit down onto the seal.
Jesse
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:18 PM   #3
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Remove 4 Philip screws to remove the cover. Then remove 4 10mm nuts to remove the inner cover. Then you will see 4 bolts with springs under them. Should be able to tighten them to pull the unit down onto the seal.
Jesse

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Old 08-02-2014, 04:32 PM   #4
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:40 PM   #5
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Old 08-02-2014, 05:28 PM   #6
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Thanks for the reply. I'll give that a try and let you know. I'm glad to know that it can be tightened from the top and not have to remove the ceiling.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:28 PM   #7
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Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this. I have attached photos of my unit since it is different from your photos. I do not see 10mm bolts to remove...not even an inside cover. Any ideas?
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:55 PM   #8
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Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this. I have attached photos of my unit since it is different from your photos. I do not see 10mm bolts to remove...not even an inside cover. Any ideas?

Your units are a bit different. They are still attached by 4 bolts. You have a inner panel that comes off to get to them. Looks like one screw or bolt on one end and taped on the other. Remove that and I believe you will see the hold down screws.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:45 AM   #9
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Thank you. I'll get some aluminum tape and take the panel off. I'll let you know what I find.
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:54 PM   #10
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The 4 bolts were there just like you said. They did not feel loose like I expected. How thick is the gasket between the unit and the rooftop? The part I could easily see did not seem to be more than 1/4 inch.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:55 AM   #11
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The thickness was approximately 1.25". After tightened down it could be 1/4". If you are sure it is rain water you may need to remove the 4 bolts and lift the unit to see if the seal is properly installed. Did it just start leaking?
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:33 AM   #12
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Thanks for your time Jesse. The history could be a bit complicated since we have been fighting this for a year, but I will try to explain. We bought the bus from a dealer in Aug 2013...we are the second owner. It has 3 ACs. Each AC has a pump to drain condensation to the rear of the bus. Right from the beginning, the middle AC did not work at all, and we had condensation leaking from the roof in the front of the bus. Before we could take it back in, we had a very HEAVY rain, and water started leaking from the bedroom ceiling fan (which is directly under the rear AC). We took it back in and they replaced the condensation pump on the rear AC over the bedroom. All appeared good since the drip in front of the bus stopped and all three condensation drain tubes in the back of the bus dripped water (correctly). BUT, in the very first heavy rain, water again dripped from the ceiling fan in the bedroom. If I kept the rear AC off, water would not drip from the ceiling fan. If I turned it on in the heavy rain, water would drip from the ceiling fan. I keep saying HEAVY rain, because it will not drip in light rains. When we took it back in, they said the AC was good, but we needed to reseal the roof...which they did at a significant cost. We took it back on the road, and again another heavy rain came, and again water dripped from the bedroom ceiling fan. BUT things got worse. Water also began blowing from the vents under the front AC. By this time, we had owned the bus 6 months (it was Jan-Feb time frame) and the leaks during heavy rains were getting worse. We began turning both the FRONT and REAR ACs off when rains are even near so not to risk the leaks. I can actually hear water fluttering in the AC conduits before it starts blowing out of the vents. I don’t know if the flutter is coming from the fan blades on the AC blower hitting water, or just from the force of wind traveling over the water in the conduits. The bus does not leak when just the MIDDLE AC is running (nor do I hear any water fluttering). We took it back in to the dealer, they ran their tests at $135 an hour, and couldn’t find any leaks and said the gaskets were fine. They claim they ran a water hose over the unit while it is running and no leaks inside the bus occur…I seriously doubt their claim and have lost all confidence in the dealer’s repair shop. Any ideas you have would be greatly appreciated.
Donald
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:46 PM   #13
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Hi Donald
We don't need a dealer here. I am confident that you and I can fix this. Water in the coach is not acceptable. I don't believe it is a bad seal or pump. If it where a bad seal it would leak while off unless it is very small and on the intake side and the negative pressure is pulling it in. I would think if it were a bad pump or line it would leak when it is not raining. Something is causing it to pull rain water into the ducts when they are running. We have to find out where the manufacture went wrong in designing the unit or where Winnebago went wrong with the application. We can do this. Please give me the model and serial #'s of all three units. I will do some research and get back with you.
Jesse

If it were raining hard and you turned it on high how long would it take it to leak and how fast would it leak?
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:21 PM   #14
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I know all three ACs are Coleman Polar Mach RV Heat Pump Model 49023A879. One of the photos I attached on Aug 5 shows the Rear AC...if you zoom in you can see the Serial Number on the tag. Unless all of it is not shown, it looks like it is 091015258. I'll get back up there later today hopefully to get the serial numbers of all three ACs and send it to you. We are in the Texas heat right now and we are not shaded until later this afternoon. Thanks for your help.
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Old 08-12-2014, 01:25 PM   #15
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Forgot to answer your last question. The leaking starts within a minute or two of a heavy rain if we don't shut the units off. The water dripping from the ceiling fan is constant but not pouring...enough to get the bed and floor seriously wet within minutes. The water BLOWING out of the vents below the front AC is pretty severe...enough to leave huge water puddles in the floor.
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Old 08-12-2014, 02:08 PM   #16
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Donald
My tech buddy at Airexcel seems to think that the lower pan may be bent. He was at a loss until I told him that the seal was 1/4" thick under the unit. He said it is 1" to start and should only compress 1/4 to 1/2". The front and back unit may have been tightened too much which would have bent the pan down and be causing the leak. He would like to see pictures of the seal compressed.
We should take many around and in the unit to send to him. When you can send them to me I have his email and I will sent you mine by pm.

Jesse

The front symptoms are the same as the rear just blowed out the vent correct?
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:41 PM   #17
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I got your email address. I'll send you an email and attach photos of the tags on each AC. I have two photos of the Rear AC gasket that I was able to take by holding my phone down inside the unit. Both photos look the same...I thought the first one was blurry so I tried another, but it isn't any more clear. I don't see a good place to take a photo of the gasket without removing the whole unit. Is that how you would do it? And yes, both the front and and rear leak. The rear AC drips from the ceiling fan...maybe it doesn't blow out because there are no vents there??? The front AC literally blows out the vents directly under or close to the unit.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:05 PM   #18
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I got your email address. I'll send you an email and attach photos of the tags on each AC. I have two photos of the Rear AC gasket that I was able to take by holding my phone down inside the unit. Both photos look the same...I thought the first one was blurry so I tried another, but it isn't any more clear. I don't see a good place to take a photo of the gasket without removing the whole unit. Is that how you would do it? And yes, both the front and and rear leak. The rear AC drips from the ceiling fan...maybe it doesn't blow out because there are no vents there??? The front AC literally blows out the vents directly under or close to the unit.

I got the pictures and they are too blurry.
Take something up there that you can change thickness of and slide under next to the gasket to match the hight of the gasket then pull it out and measure it. Do two measures. One or the thinnest area and one of the thickest area. Now that I have the serial number I can do some more research. Be careful on that roof.
I wouldn't remove them yet.
Jesse

Have you checked the return air filters? If they are blocking the flow this would put excessive negative pressure and possibly suck rain in.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:28 PM   #19
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This is interesting. Thought you might like to read it.
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roof leak through a/c in heavy rains
on: January 10, 2008, 12:33:57 PM

hey guys. im up in the cazadero hills, and its rainy season. ive never had leaks before but the heavy rains im getting a drip through my roof a/c unit. could it be the winds? or could i bondo around the unit? or is it more likely to be a leak internal to the unit that needs to be looked at?

thanks for any thoughts,
xo shatterproof
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Re: roof leak through a/c in heavy rains
Reply #1 on: January 10, 2008, 01:09:49 PM
It could very well be a leak in the area where the AC attaches to the roof. You may be able to correct the condition by giving the mounting bolts a turn. Do not try to tight them all the way down just a turn on each one. The mounting bolts can be accessed from the inside by taking the AC grill off.
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Re: roof leak through a/c in heavy rains
Reply #2 on: January 10, 2008, 03:15:45 PM
Re the mounting bolts that Ron referred to: There are four of them, one in each corner. You can see the nuts. To start with only do one turn of the nut on each bolt. Do it slowly so you can get a feel as to how hard each nut turns. Real pros torque them to about 10-12 inch pounds. You may not want to tighten all four if, let's say, one turns quite hard which may mean it's already torqued down down to far.

What you're doing is compressing a 5/8 to 3/4 inch thick foam rubber gasket to about half it's original thickness and for that reason bondo or caulking will not work. Up on the roof the gasket should be compressed evenly all the way around. It's tough to see it. You've got to lay down with your temple flat on the roof in order for one of your eyes to to see it well.

OTOH, ultimately you may have to have new rooftop A/C gaskets installed.

If you haven't already check to see if your A/C rooftop cover is cracked or broken.

JerryF
Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 03:18:23 PM by JerArdra
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Re: roof leak through a/c in heavy rains
Reply #3 on: January 10, 2008, 09:09:58 PM
Water dripping from the AC air intake doesn't necessarily mean the leak is in the AC mount - ANY water that gets under the roof generally flows along the inner surface until it comes out through the gaping AC hole or runs down the insides of the side walls. Do not assume it is the AC - check the entire roof for leaks, e.g. around roof and plumbing vents, antennas, marker lights, satellite dish, ladder mounts, etc.

Yes, the wind may be piling up water where it does not usually rest, but it is still a roof leak.
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Re: roof leak through a/c in heavy rains
Reply #4 on: January 10, 2008, 09:22:39 PM
Gary has a point. Roof leaks can be at the opposite end of the rig from where they show up inside.
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Re: roof leak through a/c in heavy rains
Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008, 03:15:09 PM
Yesterday I added another comment right after Jerry's, but guess it got lost along the way. So I'll try again.

Two years ago we had what appeared to be an A/C leak that turned out to be dried caulking around the crank-up through-the-air TV antenna. It took quite a while to pinpoint the problem. You need to go up on the roof after things dry out a bit and check all your rooftop caulking at every opening. Water seeks easy entry which might be a minute crack in the caulking and then, as Gary said, it finds its way to the easiest exit which often is an A/C vent. The entry and exit points can be many feet from each other so don't assume anything. Also, if you live in a hot and dry area, make a rooftop caulk check part of your annual maintenance.

ArdraF
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Re: roof leak through a/c in heavy rains
Reply #6 on: January 11, 2008, 11:56:03 PM

Thanks! I'll check out the bolts as soon as I have some tools and a minute away from the class I'm taking up here. Reading the rest of your suggestions, I'm worried the leak could result from a large paint chip on the back of the van that I meant to Bondo and never got to... I tapped a low level bridge getting out of an awkward parking situation and took off a good chunk of "paint".... seems to run deeper than paint, there is exposed (fiberglass?)....

definately a newbie, ill let you know if the bolt adjustment helps.

Thanks Again,
Shatterproof
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:56 PM   #20
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Okay Donald
This is what I was looking for.

I think we should clean the filters and the evaporator coils and remove the covers again and clean the drain holes in the bottom of the pan.

I believe that the amount of negative pressure due to a clogged coil,filter and pan drain holes is pulling the rain inside the unit from underneath outside of the gasket area through what's left of the drain holes when it rains hard.

The middle unit hasn't been used as much as the others due to not working is my belief why it is not doing this.

Be sure to use a coil cleaner that won't damage the sides of the coach.

Jesse

Good reading!
Roof Air Conditioner Water Leaks
A fairly common complaint is that of water leaks from the rooftop air conditioner. These do not have to be nearly as hard to find or fix as people often make them- they simply need to be dealt with in a systematic method.

The first question when dealing with this type of leak is- does it leak when it's raining or when the air conditioner is running (or, more rarely, both)? To deal with either, we need to look closely at how the air conditioner is mounted, and how it deals with the condensation generated while running.

The main thing to keep in mind, is that the air conditioner is sealed to the roof using a sponge rubber gasket- this gasket is compressable, and really is a long term maintenance item (they can last years, but not forever). This gasket is compressed by 3 or 4 bolts running from the inside assembly up to the top. For either "rain only" or "while A/C is running" leaks, first make certain there is at least 1/2 inch of gasket left (it is not tightened right down to the roof), then check the bolt for tightness- just make sure they are all snug, but don't over tighten- there must be the gap between the bottom of the A/C and the roof.

The reason for this gap is that on most roof top A/C/ units, the condensation drains out the bottom of the unit- between the base of the air conditioner and the roof. For this reason, never, ever seal around the perimeter of the air conditioner- I cannot say how many times I have had to deal with a unit where someone slopped goop around the base of the air conditioner, trapping water in where it has to leak inside. The "inside"coils of the air conditioner sit in a drain pan, to collect the condensation, which then runs out a small hole in the side, and out the bottom.

If the leak is both while raining, and while running, and the gasket is still thick enough and tight, odds are there is some roof deterioration underneath the air conditioner- as long as the roof isn't sagging, causing water to puddle up around the air conditioner, which can be checked by pulling a string across the roof, from side to side. If there is significant sag, the air conditioner needs to be raised, either by installing 2 gaskets or by removing the air conditioner and putting shimmed between the roof material and roof frame- this is the method I usually use, building up with strips of 1/4" plywood, until the air conditioner is high enough that water cannot run in. Of course, roof sag may be an indication of a larger problem, but quite often it is just age, and other than a bit of sag, there are really no structural problems.

If the leak is only while the unit is operating, first check all of the above, if everything checks out, odds are that the drain holes are simply plugged up, or that the evaporator coil is very dirty, which will cause enough suction to keep the water from draining properly. To deal with this, we have to get up on the roof, and do some disassembly.You have to remove the plastic shroud, and then the front evaporator cover, which is usually held on by a number of screws. This will get you in to the evaporator and drain pan- it is usually fairly obvious if the drains are clogged, and they are easily cleaned, but if you are going this far, it is a good time to check the evaporator coils for dirt, and clean them if needed (if they haven't been cleaned in a while, it really wouldn't hurt to clean them. Coleman recommends "Formula 409" cleaner, which works well- I use "VoomRV", but most mild degreaser type cleaners should do fine. I don't like to use the standard coil cleaner products for this, as most of them are acidic, and while they would be fine in a large house air conditioner, I don't like the idea of these products running down the outside of an RV. Another great cleaner that I don't like for this application is "Simple Green"- it has some issues with aluminum. The hardest part of cleaning the coils is rinsing them off without flooding the inside of the RV- being very careful with the water, putting rags in the opening from the top, and putting down a protective cover inside should keep everything A-OK. While you are up there with all these items, cleaning the outside condenser coils is a great idea- on air conditioners only a few years old, I can usually lower the amperage draw by 1 to 2 amps, simply by cleaning these coils (letting them get rid of the heat more easily).

So- understanding what kind of leak you have, and where the water is supposed to go in a properly operating system, we can see that solving roof air conditioner leaks really isn't a hard job, as long as you have a bit of knowledge.
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