LiFePO4 Installation

[clduke72]

So I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew here. During the winter i accidently froze my AGM coach batteries, and decided I may as well go with the LiFePO4 upgrade. I did enough research to see that they would benefit my style of camping. The problem is that I didn't do enough research and now that I am going to install I am reading about upgrading my BIM or maybe having to add a DC-DC switch to prevent alternator damage to my 2019 Forza 38F.

So my current set-up is (2) AGM Chassis batteries, (4) LiFePO4 100Ah house batteries, (2) 250W solar panels wired in series, and a MPPT Solarepic EPever controller. I believe the MPPT controller is fine for the LiFePO4 batteries, do I just need to replace the factory installed 225A BIM to a LI-BIM? Do I need to install anything else?

Thanks for the help!

[CoreyinWP]

I had 8 100ah and just swapped the BIM. The BIM just alternates 20 min cycles of charging. With 400ah you will be fine with the BIM.

[creativepart]

Clduke72, I wish I could say with absolute certain what is necessary for you to accommodate your new LiPo batteries.

I know of folks that have:

1. Done nothing to protect their alternator
2. Installed a special BIM to regulate the charge with time (Off/On)
3. Installed a DC-DC charger

What I've not seen is dire posts from people that did No. 1 above and have rued the day they made that bad decision.

Certainly, logically, the DC to DC charger (some call it a B to B charger) is the logical choice for best practice. The DC to DC charger takes the output from your alternator and sends it to a smart charger that precisely regulates the charging of your expensive batteries.

But what you MUST do...? I don't know for sure.

PS. You MUST make sure your converter/charger or inverter/charger is set up to properly charge your new batteries with the correct charging profiles. With a 2019 Forza if you have a residential fridge you have an inverter/charger and it almost certainly has a LiPo charge profile built in. If you have a RV fridge then it depends on the charger in your converter. Sometimes all it takes is a new remote adapter to charge LiPo batteries and other times you need a new charger section.

[clduke72]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I have chosen to replace the current BIM unit with the Li-BIM module, and also ordered the remote for the Magna invertor/charger unit to utilize the proper charging method for LiFepo4 batteries. If you are going to spend that kind of money on batteries and MH, I guess you shouldn't wince about a couple hundred dollars to protect everything.

Cheers

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by clduke72

also ordered the remote for the Magna invertor/charger unit to utilize the proper charging method for LiFepo4 batteries.

You'll love the ME-ARC-50 remote it's much better than the usual WBGO supplied ME-MR 3 button remote.

Plus, you can install the ME-BMK battery monitor and the ME-AGS gen start if you wish.

I installed the BMK and liked it but switched to the Victron SmartShunt to get Bluetooth capability. After I added the Victron I found I could simply connect the Magnum BMK to the Victron shunt and so now I have both. I didn't really need both but since I already had the Magnum BMK and it cost nothing to reinstall it, why not?

The ME-ARC lets you control your inverter in dozens of ways. I've found very good settings lists on www.irv2.com and I know you can call Magnum Tech Support and they will walk you through the exact recommended settings for your batteries, etc.

[moabdds]

When I put in my Battle Born lithiums, BB recommended either the DC-DC charger or new BIM. I went with the new BIM because it was less expensive, but it was a pain in the rear to access the old one and swap it out for the new one. (I have a 2016 Itasca 27N.) I got it done and it seems to work well. Had I known how hard it was going to be to do the job, I might have opted for the more expensive DC-DC charger! Access to the BIM might be easier on your coach, hopefully.

BTW, Battle Born recommends 200-250 watts of solar panel per 100 amp hour battery, so you may find that you don't have enough solar to fully charge four batteries except under ideal conditions. I have four 250 watt panels for my 3 batteries and they charge pretty quickly, even on somewhat cloudy days. I had room for four panels and got them for $95 each, used, so I over-paneled. Now I have the option to add another battery if I ever have an extra $1k laying around, begging to be spent.

We went to Quartzsite in January and ran the furnace every night with the thermostat set at 63 degrees and never ran down the batteries, so 300 amp hours works for us so far.

[BigWoods]

You only really need a new BIM. Also, check the charging profile of your converter. You may want to change that out too. My converter will get the batteries to 90% charge. I rely on the solar to get them to 100%. Someday I’ll put in an new converter.

This describes the process to put in a new BIM-
https://www.explorist.life/how-to-wi...tery-isolator/

[Elkman]

The Lithionics and others have a built-in BIM and with the Lithionics there is also Bluetooth connectivity to a smartphone app. I added the $172 LI-225 BIM so as to isolated the house batteries from the cab battery. Battleborn is a reseller of these which are from Precision Circuits.

From the sales page:

• Under normal charging conditions, the BIM will connect for 15 minutes every 35 minutes. That means that the BIM will connect for 15 minutes, disconnect for 20 minutes, and repeat this cycle until the coach battery is charged.
• If the coach battery resting voltage exceeds 13.4V than the BIM will disconnect. A resting voltage greater than 13.4V indicates a fully charged battery. Note that “resting voltage” means that no current is flowing to the coach battery. The BIM will disconnect if the alternator voltage exceeds 14.4V. This protects the coach battery from over charging.
• The BIM will disconnect if the voltage difference between the alternator and the coach battery is less than 0.1V. If the voltage difference is too low, then there is a negligible charging current, and no need to connect to the coach battery.
• The BIM will disconnect if the alternator voltage drops below 13.3V. If the alternator voltage is too low, than it cannot adequately charge the coach battery, so there is no reason to connect.

The solar charge controller and the inverter need to have a setting for lithium type batteries to get them fully charged and to have them recharge as quickly as possible.

[bpcannan]

We wanted the opportunity to boondock and stay in some national, state and county parks where we may not have full hookups and my house batteries needed to be replaced so we bit the bullet. 2010 Journey Express 34Y (35')

My basic reqs were
- wanted 4-7 days of operation with minimal generator use
- wanted all the AC lines to be hot when running on batteries not just the 4 lines to the TVs and the one passenger line
- wanted to be able to run a coffee pot, microwave, hair dryer (not for me BTW) and maybe the AC long enough to knock off 7-10 degrees inside - then we could go with fans.
- wanted to protect my alternator

So we bought
3 X 100AH Battleborn batteries to replace 4 235 AH 6V Golf Cart batteries
Victron 3000W inverter-charger converter to replace the 1000W inverter, charger and converter
Victron 712 Battery monitor
Battery Isolation Manager
Battery Guard Autoselect

During the install Battleborn was very creative and suggested we put in a 30 AMP transfer switch in the shore power bay. This would eliminate the need to run new wiring to get all the AC outlets working and provide enough amps to run what we wanted. The simplicity of this is that when we want to run on batteries only we plug the 50 AMP shorepower plug into a 50 to 30 AMP pigtail that is connected to the transfer switch and flip a switch inside that bypasses 'normal' 50 AMP shorepower mode and puts us in 30 AMP 'battery' shorepower mode. And we still get the benefit of charging while running or charging off the generator.

We cleaned up the existing battery bay and created a cover for the opening in the bay where battery gases needed to vent to keep everything clean.

Just got back from a 5 week Florida/Georgia trip and it all worked as designed. We even ran the fridge on 'battery AC' the last 2 travel days as a test. I have to do some checking but it only seemed to draw about 3 AMPs while running.

This may well be an overkill install but I thought I'd share my experiences with an older coach, being able to use the existing battery bay, avoiding massive re-wiring work and the support Battleborn gave.

Hope this helps someone
Brian

++++++++++++++++++++

Originally Posted by clduke72

So I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew here. During the winter i accidently froze my AGM coach batteries, and decided I may as well go with the LiFePO4 upgrade. I did enough research to see that they would benefit my style of camping. The problem is that I didn't do enough research and now that I am going to install I am reading about upgrading my BIM or maybe having to add a DC-DC switch to prevent alternator damage to my 2019 Forza 38F.

So my current set-up is (2) AGM Chassis batteries, (4) LiFePO4 100Ah house batteries, (2) 250W solar panels wired in series, and a MPPT Solarepic EPever controller. I believe the MPPT controller is fine for the LiFePO4 batteries, do I just need to replace the factory installed 225A BIM to a LI-BIM? Do I need to install anything else?

Thanks for the help!

[clduke72]

As a follow-up, we are well into Alberta camping season and the batteries have worked great. I installed a Li-BIM, and changed settings in my solar controller and Magna Invertor to hopefully help out the charging. No issues. I do agree with Moabdds that accessing and changing out the BIM was a total PIA, but doable. Other than that very happy so far.

[RocknRoll]

Originally Posted by bpcannan

We wanted the opportunity to boondock and stay in some national, state and county parks where we may not have full hookups and my house batteries needed to be replaced so we bit the bullet. 2010 Journey Express 34Y (35')

My basic reqs were
- wanted 4-7 days of operation with minimal generator use
- wanted all the AC lines to be hot when running on batteries not just the 4 lines to the TVs and the one passenger line
- wanted to be able to run a coffee pot, microwave, hair dryer (not for me BTW) and maybe the AC long enough to knock off 7-10 degrees inside - then we could go with fans.
- wanted to protect my alternator

So we bought
3 X 100AH Battleborn batteries to replace 4 235 AH 6V Golf Cart batteries
Victron 3000W inverter-charger converter to replace the 1000W inverter, charger and converter
Victron 712 Battery monitor
Battery Isolation Manager
Battery Guard Autoselect

During the install Battleborn was very creative and suggested we put in a 30 AMP transfer switch in the shore power bay. This would eliminate the need to run new wiring to get all the AC outlets working and provide enough amps to run what we wanted. The simplicity of this is that when we want to run on batteries only we plug the 50 AMP shorepower plug into a 50 to 30 AMP pigtail that is connected to the transfer switch and flip a switch inside that bypasses 'normal' 50 AMP shorepower mode and puts us in 30 AMP 'battery' shorepower mode. And we still get the benefit of charging while running or charging off the generator.

We cleaned up the existing battery bay and created a cover for the opening in the bay where battery gases needed to vent to keep everything clean.

Just got back from a 5 week Florida/Georgia trip and it all worked as designed. We even ran the fridge on 'battery AC' the last 2 travel days as a test. I have to do some checking but it only seemed to draw about 3 AMPs while running.

This may well be an overkill install but I thought I'd share my experiences with an older coach, being able to use the existing battery bay, avoiding massive re-wiring work and the support Battleborn gave.

Hope this helps someone
Brian

++++++++++++++++++++

Nice setup Brian, it's never overkill if it works exactly as you planned!

Not to mention, by going to LiFeP04 you shed 150 lbs.+ and are able to recharge 2-3X faster.

[Elkman]

When you say you ran the fridge off the batteries is in a electric only fridge? Big difference with the newer RVs that do not have a 3-way fridge.

With my last camper with its 3-way fridge I could go for days with a single 125Ah lead acid battery as the propane was providing the power and the electrical use was only for the electronics.

Most folks set their refrigerator and freezer temps much lower than is necessary. Even of milk the fridge can be at 40 degrees with no significant change in how long it will last and with the freezer +15 is enough for keeping food for months. Only with ice cream may you want a colder freezer temperature. The less heat the fridge needs to extract the less power it is going to consume.

[RocknRoll]

Originally Posted by Elkman

When you say you ran the fridge off the batteries is in a electric only fridge? Big difference with the newer RVs that do not have a 3-way fridge.

With my last camper with its 3-way fridge I could go for days with a single 125Ah lead acid battery as the propane was providing the power and the electrical use was only for the electronics.

Most folks set their refrigerator and freezer temps much lower than is necessary. Even of milk the fridge can be at 40 degrees with no significant change in how long it will last and with the freezer +15 is enough for keeping food for months. Only with ice cream may you want a colder freezer temperature. The less heat the fridge needs to extract the less power it is going to consume.

Opening and closing the rig fridge will reduce the efficiency A LOT. I've posted about the merits of having a portable 12V Fridge/Freezer and keep it outside with drinks and overflow (including ice) charged by my portable solar generator.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3887688

[Elkman]

A good approach is to keep the freezer and fridge compartments as full as possible and we use various water container for that purpose.

We do like using a small Coleman 12V DC 24 quart cooler in our SUV as it is large enough for items we would purchase at grocery stores along the way to where we were spending the night.With an AC adapter we can use it in B&B room that lacks a fridge.

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by RocknRoll

Opening and closing the rig fridge will reduce the efficiency A LOT. I've posted about the merits of having a portable 12V Fridge/Freezer and keep it outside with drinks and overflow (including ice) charged by my portable solar generator.

Totally agree Rock. Opening the fridge just once or twice a day keeps power usage to minimum and you just gotta have a freezer full of frozen stuff.