Payload Question - Page 2

Goodspike · 06-08-2020, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappiHenri

If it has weight - it counts.

Well of course it counts, but the question is how much can you carry.

Many trucks/vehicles will give you a payload number, which is really just a calculation of GVWR less what the vehicle weighs in some condition that may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. For my Chevy truck they give that to you on the sticker that has tire pressure recommendations. That number is a payload of 1,447, which given my truck has a GVWR of 6,200 means the truck with factory installed accessories weighed 4,753 pounds, using whatever method GM uses (which I think may include a full tank of gas, but I'm not sure--it says "occupants and cargo" should not exceed that weight). But since buying the truck I've added some more accessories which have some weight. So that payload weight limitation is no longer accurate. It's probably closer to 1,300.

Again it's the Gross Vehicle Weight that is important, not the calculated payload weight. The latter just gives you some idea of approximately what you can carry.

nova 42qd · 06-09-2020, 06:58 AM

You can also use the Good Sam tow guides:

https://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

Some of the tow ratings are specified by guidelines created by each manufacturer...which can be optimistic. Look for SAE ratings. Some of the manufacturers have adopted the SAE guidelines, some have not.

Sheilag1848 · 06-09-2020, 09:00 AM

The sticker on your driver side is what counts when it comes to not only safety, but perhaps more importantly...IF you have an event that requires weighing your vehicle - whatever that reason might be...and IF the weight of Everything and I mean EVERYTHING is greater than the sticker, you could have a ton of issues to face. From the Authorities to the Insurance Company. But also just as important is YOUR SAFETY.

grogers · 06-09-2020, 01:46 PM

According to the stickers on my 2019 Canyon Diesel, my GVWR is 6200 and a payload of 1316. This morning with a full tank of fuel, I had it weighed on a certified scale without me or anything in it. The weight which i consider to be my curb weight was 4940. Far more than what I found on the web for my Canyon. Does this mean my true payload is now 1260? Also when calculating the tongue weight of a trailer do I add the dry hitch weight, 2 propane tanks and battery? Dam, this should be simple but it is not and I'm running out of payload a lot faster than towing capacity which is 7600 lbs. Maybe I should just get a boat. Just a thought. Thanks guys and gals for your input.

Goodspike · 06-09-2020, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grogers

According to the stickers on my 2019 Canyon Diesel, my GVWR is 6200 and a payload of 1316. This morning with a full tank of fuel, I had it weighed on a certified scale without me or anything in it. The weight which i consider to be my curb weight was 4940. Far more than what I found on the web for my Canyon. Does this mean my true payload is now 1260? Also when calculating the tongue weight of a trailer do I add the dry hitch weight, 2 propane tanks and battery? Dam, this should be simple but it is not and I'm running out of payload a lot faster than towing capacity which is 7600 lbs. Maybe I should just get a boat. Just a thought. Thanks guys and gals for your input.

Yep, that's your new payload. Did you add any accessories like I did? (Side steps, T-cover)?

Yes the tongue weight counts against payload, but tongue weight includes the propane and batteries (never tow without the batteries). But it's actually a bit more complicated than that when you use a weight distributing hitch which moves some of that weight back to the trailer wheels and some to the front wheels. And notwithstanding that transfer, I think you still include the entire tongue weight in your calculations. Also, I'd again point to the weights I posted in Post 7 above. That was with a WDH.

Did you happen to get F/R weights as part of your weigh? I haven't done that empty and would be curious.

grogers · 06-09-2020, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Yep, that's your new payload. Did you add any accessories like I did? (Side steps, T-cover)?

Yes the tongue weight counts against payload, but tongue weight includes the propane and batteries (never tow without the batteries). But it's actually a bit more complicated than that when you use a weight distributing hitch which moves some of that weight back to the trailer wheels and some to the front wheels. And notwithstanding that transfer, I think you still include the entire tongue weight in your calculations. Also, I'd again point to the weights I posted in Post 7 above. That was with a WDH.

Did you happen to get F/R weights as part of your weigh? I haven't done that empty and would be curious.

My Canyon is the Denali package and I added a bed cover and mat. Everything else is stock. I did not weigh the axles. No longer thinking about a 2108 model. Think a 2106DS would be better with an Andersen WDH. When I bought the truck I wanted one that would fit in my garage and I was only looking at towing capacity. With 7600 lbs I thought I had the right truck; never considered payload. I like the truck for many other reasons but my trailer size is limited by it's payload. Oh well; live and learn. Have a great camping season and be safe.

Goodspike · 06-09-2020, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grogers

My Canyon is the Denali package and I added a bed cover and mat. Everything else is stock. I did not weigh the axles. No longer thinking about a 2108 model. Think a 2106DS would be better with an Andersen WDH. When I bought the truck I wanted one that would fit in my garage and I was only looking at towing capacity. With 7600 lbs I thought I had the right truck; never considered payload..

Somewhat similar--garage based purchase, but I always wanted to have plenty of margin on towing capacity. The 2106DS is actually larger than what I envisioned buying, but I really liked the tandem axles. But yeah, having so little extra capacity on payload is sad.

BTW, the Denali package should be included in the sticker calculations.

Sheilag1848 · 06-10-2020, 07:30 AM

My old brain always likes to keep things as simple as possible, so when figuring weight:
Check GVWR sticker. That is the max GROSS weight of vehicle including Everything that is in or on it but NOT including any weight of the towed vehicle. I know that if I am over weight and I have an incident, I may not be covered by my insurance and could receive a citation. If I am pulling something, I Must be certain that my car/truck/rv is rated to pull the Total weight of the vehicle being towed.
Short story. Family in 1/2 ton pickup pulling 5th wheel trailer, 18 yo son at wheel, 3 sleeping in trailer, 4 in truck. 35 N thru Kansas City (horrid twisty turning rd) Kid was speeding, lost control, rolled over guard rail on turn, truck ended up on top of trailer in heap. 5 dead. NO insurance payout because 1 issue. Truck was not rated high enough to be pulling that trailer.
Knowing weights is Important.

Goodspike · 06-10-2020, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheilag1848

My old brain always likes to keep things as simple as possible, so when figuring weight:
Check GVWR sticker. That is the max GROSS weight of vehicle including Everything that is in or on it but NOT including any weight of the towed vehicle. I know that if I am over weight and I have an incident, I may not be covered by my insurance and could receive a citation. If I am pulling something, I Must be certain that my car/truck/rv is rated to pull the Total weight of the vehicle being towed.
Short story. Family in 1/2 ton pickup pulling 5th wheel trailer, 18 yo son at wheel, 3 sleeping in trailer, 4 in truck. 35 N thru Kansas City (horrid twisty turning rd) Kid was speeding, lost control, rolled over guard rail on turn, truck ended up on top of trailer in heap. 5 dead. NO insurance payout because 1 issue. t.

Not sure why you say not including any weight of the trailer. What about the tongue or pin weight?

Interesting story about the 5th wheel. There are some who tow small 5th wheels with Colorado/Canyons even though no one makes a hitch designed for such use. I would love to have a 5th wheel, but decided against it for that reason, but also due to the limited payload of the Colorado/Canyon. You've given me a third reason to support my decision.

Sheilag1848 · 06-10-2020, 07:55 AM

Thanks for response. I didn't include anything about trailer weight because I believe you can not have a full conversation about trailer weight without including how the trailer is loaded. If you've been on the road a lot, (recent history 100k miles/yr) you see a lot. 1 of those "things" is a trailer swinging side to side behind the towing vehicle. I've seen more than a few and often they end up rolling as the trailer swings too far and the weight of trailer going back and forth causes the roll. Mostly ppl don't know how to drive well enough or don't educate themselves about towing so that they know what to do in that situation. I see them slow down and even brake. BAD decision. I've had weight distribution conversations with some and find they are either not understanding or really just dont give a damn. So, I don't talk weight in trailers.
BTY I have a peterbilt and 57' Space Craft 5th wheel for sale if anyone is interested.
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=FMgiMDxfNKU

Goodspike · 06-10-2020, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheilag1848

BTY I have a peterbilt and 57' Space Craft 5th wheel for sale if anyone is interested.
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=FMgiMDxfNKU

Space Craft is a good name for that judging by the interior!

Sheilag1848 · 06-10-2020, 08:13 AM

Top shelf

grogers · 06-10-2020, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheilag1848

My old brain always likes to keep things as simple as possible, so when figuring weight:
Check GVWR sticker. That is the max GROSS weight of vehicle including Everything that is in or on it but NOT including any weight of the towed vehicle. I know that if I am over weight and I have an incident, I may not be covered by my insurance and could receive a citation. If I am pulling something, I Must be certain that my car/truck/rv is rated to pull the Total weight of the vehicle being towed.
Short story. Family in 1/2 ton pickup pulling 5th wheel trailer, 18 yo son at wheel, 3 sleeping in trailer, 4 in truck. 35 N thru Kansas City (horrid twisty turning rd) Kid was speeding, lost control, rolled over guard rail on turn, truck ended up on top of trailer in heap. 5 dead. NO insurance payout because 1 issue. Truck was not rated high enough to be pulling that trailer.
Knowing weights is Important.

Could not agree more; that is why I'm researching and trying to understand for myself what is an appropriate trailer for my Canyon. Will not just rely on what a salesperson tells me. When I started thinking about buying a trailer all I focused on was the towing capacity of the Canyon; never being aware that the GVWR was the most important part of the equation. I think many new trailer buyers make this mistake. Anyway, thanks for your post. Every new buyer should read it.

Goodspike · 06-10-2020, 09:28 AM

BTW, one other factor to consider besides GVWR is aerodynamic drag. Once you get moving that impacts how hard it is to stay moving. One reason I went with the 2106 DS was it is narrower than some other vehicles and thus should give me slightly better fuel economy. Also it really does make it easier to see behind you--at least with Boost towing mirrors.

Sheilag1848 · 06-10-2020, 09:33 AM

You are most welcome. Ive been on the road for 20+ yrs and have seen a lot. Also had many different configurations of units and try to learn as I go. Example of never to old to learn...needed new tow vehicle. Not many that don't have lots of restrictions, limits, etc. Also learned that you can NOT rely on car sales ppl (LOL) They do not know the info we need. Started asking for actual manual of vehicle I was interested in only to learn that what the sales rep said was not accurate. Ended up with Buick Envision and it's perfect. Camping world installed a rocker switch so no fuse removal and best of all NO SPEED LIMIT. Old car HONDA had 65 limit. What a drag. Now I can say I am a total happy camper even when driving down the road. Horizon handles like my old Prevost did and car is loaded (sewing machine and fishing equip) plus 2 electric bikes and we go down the road at 70+ without a care in the world (except for the other drivers).

Goodspike · 06-10-2020, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheilag1848

Also learned that you can NOT rely on car sales ppl (LOL) They do not know the info we need.

My best example of that is when I first started looking for a truck to tow a trailer. I started at a Ford Truck dealer (no cars) and was looking at the F-150s and Expeditions. The salesman tried to push me to the Ford Explorer--this was in 2018 so the FWD model. That thing can't tow crap!

Really odd that the guy would push me toward a less capable model that was also much less expensive.

Sheilag1848 · 06-10-2020, 09:57 AM

That is exactly what they try to do in order to get customer into vehicle..
We had several that gave us a hard time when we asked to read the actual vehicle manual so we could see for ourselves what the limits for flat towing. Some of them actually learned a bit after reading the manuals with us.

grogers · 06-10-2020, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodspike

BTW, one other factor to consider besides GVWR is aerodynamic drag. Once you get moving that impacts how hard it is to stay moving. One reason I went with the 2106 DS was it is narrower than some other vehicles and thus should give me slightly better fuel economy. Also it really does make it easier to see behind you--at least with Boost towing mirrors.

You are right for sure. This is one of the main reasons for looking at a Micro Mini; the 7 feet width should help a lot.