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Old 06-02-2020, 02:05 PM   #1
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Payload Question

Does a tow vehicle's gas in it's gas tank count against the vehicle's payload? I assume it does not; but want to be sure. Thanks folks; really enjoy the folks on this site. They have been very helpful in sorting out this towing stuff.
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Old 06-02-2020, 02:12 PM   #2
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Typically, fuel is included in the payload. Drivers and gear are extra.
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:53 PM   #3
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There is dry weight, what your vehicle weighs empty of everything other than water in the radiator and oil in the crank case. Everything else that enters the vehicle adds to the gross vehicle weight. Your gas, propane, water, clothes, food... Everything adds to the GVW. 60 gallons of fuel approx 540lbs. 50 gallons of water approx 400lbs. It adds up quick.
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:57 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by grogers View Post
Does a tow vehicle's gas in it's gas tank count against the vehicle's payload? I assume it does not; but want to be sure. Thanks folks; really enjoy the folks on this site. They have been very helpful in sorting out this towing stuff.
I think it typically does, but you might see what your manufacturer says. Or better yet, just fill up your tank, load it with whatever you normally carry (including driver and passengers) and weigh the vehicle, preferably getting front and rear numbers. Compare that number to your GVWR limit (and axle limits if you got separate weights). The difference would be your available payload with that setup. Ideally you'd repeat with the trailer connected to make sure everything was still within limits.

Payload is just a calculated number, the important number is the total weight of the vehicle.
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:59 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by gurroz View Post
There is dry weight, what your vehicle weighs empty of everything other than water in the radiator and oil in the crank case. Everything else that enters the vehicle adds to the gross vehicle weight. Your gas, propane, water, clothes, food... Everything adds to the GVW. 60 gallons of fuel approx 540lbs. 50 gallons of water approx 400lbs. It adds up quick.
I think the OP was asking about a car or truck, not a motorhome, but that wasn't clear.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:59 PM   #6
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I was asking in regards to a tow vehicle for towing a travel trailer. Does the weight of gas (fuel) count against a vehicle's payload? For example, my 2019 GMC Canyon (diesel) with a camper package; brake control lists a curb weight of 4482 and a payload of 1316. My question is ---- is the fuel weight included in the 4482 curb weight or must I count it against the payload? From this site I've learned that a tow vehicle's payload is more important than it's maximum tow rate which is 7600 in my Canyon.

I'm trying to determine if my Canyon is adequate for towing a 2108DS or a 2108TB.

Thanks Goodspike for bringing this to the readers attention.
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Old 06-03-2020, 04:08 PM   #7
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I tow a 2106DS with a Colorado Duramax crewcab, the latter of which I list having a curb weight of 4753 (but I'm not sure where I got that number). I've added side bars/steps and a hard T-cover. With about 200 pounds of gear in the bed, my wife, my cat and the trailer attached (with WDH) and about half a tank of diesel my weights were:

2920 Front Axle
2940 Rear Axle
3960 Trailer. (That's actually pretty close to the trailer empty weight too--just a bit over).

So anyway, really close to the 6200 GVWR
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Old 06-03-2020, 06:10 PM   #8
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Thanks again Goodspike. Your tow vehicle is the same as mine pretty much. Since the 2108's are a little heavier than your 2106DS I may be pushing mine to tow a 2108. Was planning to buy a Andersen WDH since they are lighter than other WDH's. How does your Canyon tow your 2106? Does it struggle or overheat the engine &/or transmission. How does it do with steep grades; like in the mountains?
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Old 06-03-2020, 08:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by grogers View Post
Thanks again Goodspike. Your tow vehicle is the same as mine pretty much. Since the 2108's are a little heavier than your 2106DS I may be pushing mine to tow a 2108. Was planning to buy a Andersen WDH since they are lighter than other WDH's. How does your Canyon tow your 2106? Does it struggle or overheat the engine &/or transmission. How does it do with steep grades; like in the mountains?
I only bought it in January, and pulled it basically twice. Home and one camping trip. But I did pull a similar weight rental with no issues and did a few test passes without issue. It didn't have a problem with either, but neither was hugely steep (Snoqualmie Pass and Tiger Mountain Pass (Hwy 18). And going down is great with the exhaust brake--you need to put some weight behind the truck to know how well that works.
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Old 06-03-2020, 08:43 PM   #10
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Check out these threads, at least one of which didn't like how it towed. Lots of different opinions, but most favorable.

https://www.coloradofans.com/threads...ressed.407147/

https://www.coloradofans.com/threads...grades.415223/
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:38 AM   #11
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Thanks again Goodspike; those threads you gave me really help. I think if I decide on a 2108 DS or TB I will be okay. My towing will be mostly in Nebraska; rarely in the mtns.
Have a great weekend.
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Old 06-07-2020, 06:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grogers View Post
Does a tow vehicle's gas in it's gas tank count against the vehicle's payload? I assume it does not; but want to be sure. Thanks folks; really enjoy the folks on this site. They have been very helpful in sorting out this towing stuff.
I have a Ford vs Chevy. Somewhere (owner's manual, Ford website?) I read for my vehicle the 150# driver and a full tank of gas are not included in the allowable payload, only added passengers and other cargo.
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Old 06-08-2020, 07:43 AM   #13
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The curb weight is how the vehicle left the assembly line. This would include all fluids and a full tank of fuel.

Everything else you add after that counts towards payload - passengers, cargo, etc.
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Old 06-08-2020, 10:48 AM   #14
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towing weights

I got tired of all of the ####'s and just went with common sense. Changed the TT tires out for max load range. Don't travel with any thing full save a few gallons in the fresh water tank. Have a great hitch equalizer. Balance my load in the TT and the tow vehicle (TV). AND constantly check, check, & check your tire pressure in the TT & TV. Formerly towed with a 2014 Tundra now with a 2019 Tundra 4x4. Our 2106FBS is a dream to tow and we have towed some 30,000 miles. We have crossed every mountain range in the USA. We took her though Death Valley, Back roads and interstates. At 7' wide we have never had any towing problems. Have her up to I-State speeds of 70 mph+ but I mostly prefer the 65 mph which gives me 1-2 gallons extra or about 60 miles to a tank full. I know your frustration. It's the same with boating. Ask a plain question to understand all the technical stuff and no one can give you a straight answer, not even Toyota. Think this is crazy then just ask someone about outboard fuel stabilizers!! So I would suggest take the total weight of your TV with everything in it, add the tongue weight and after considering what a quality equalizer can do for you compare the ###'s. Hook it all up. Eyeball it to make sure your level. Take it for a test spin and if it feels good, breaks correctly, doesn't push the ass end of TV then hit the road. Finally always remember to give your self some serious distance between your front bumper and their rear bumper. You just never when some of these yahoos multi-lane passers will whip in front of some. Hope our experience helps and as experience tells us is we have always taken 2x more than we need. So, we have learned to cut way back and that has help to lighten the loads too. Safe Travels
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:05 AM   #15
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Thanks Pic; you hit the nail on the head. It is all very confusing and of course most RV dealers say oh you will not have any trouble towing this particular trailer. What I've learned is that a truck's towing capacity is not the only thing to consider. It's payload is what is most important. Also, I've been trying to determine my truck's curb weight from the internet. I get all sorts of different numbers. My next step is to just take my truck to a scale with a full tank of fuel and weigh it with nobody or anything in it. With that I can determine what my true payload is. I do not want to spend $25,000 on a travel trailer and find out what a big mistake I've made.
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:23 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by grogers View Post
Thanks Pic; you hit the nail on the head. It is all very confusing and of course most RV dealers say oh you will not have any trouble towing this particular trailer. What I've learned is that a truck's towing capacity is not the only thing to consider. It's payload is what is most important. Also, I've been trying to determine my truck's curb weight from the internet. I get all sorts of different numbers. My next step is to just take my truck to a scale with a full tank of fuel and weigh it with nobody or anything in it. With that I can determine what my true payload is. I do not want to spend $25,000 on a travel trailer and find out what a big mistake I've made.
I would weigh it with you inside as well as a normal load of passengers when you tow, as well as whatever you typically keep in the bed when you tow. That will give you a better idea of what your available payload is for towing.
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Old 06-08-2020, 12:02 PM   #17
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EVERYTHING on board is counted when the vehicle is weighed. If pulled over and required to provide weight, you will in all probabilty be directed to the nearest weight scale and get a certified weight.
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Old 06-08-2020, 12:20 PM   #18
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towing weights

looks like your only 1' +/- longer than us. I don't think, (may be wrong) you'll be carrying some 4,750 lbs in you TT. I have to check my notes but I think the stabilizer helps to improve tow capabilities. AND don't be paying that amount for one of these units. Also consider (depending on how often and how far you will tow) a 2 axle TT. You can send me a private message for more info.
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Old 06-08-2020, 12:39 PM   #19
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If it has weight - it counts.

A gallon of gasoline weights 6.3 lbs. So if the vehicle gas tank holds 20 gallons that means it is holding 126 lbs.

This becomes a real concern in our Class A - with a fuel tank which holds 75 gallons of gas.
And then we have it's water holding tanks (water weighs 8.345 lbs/gal) - 74 gals Fresh water; 53 gals black tank; 68 gals Grey tank. That's 1,627 lbs if all were totally full!
There is never a situation when all 3 would each be full - but you can see how much weight just the liquids can add. And we almost always travel with Grey & Black tanks totally empty and with ~ 1/2 tank of fresh water.
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:24 PM   #20
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I calculated how much weight I would be adding if the RV was completely loaded with all tanks full. Of course, that would never happen, but I wanted to know the limits, I case I’m ever stuck where I can’t dump for example. The only other weight I could jettison in an emergency would be the fresh water tank.
I typically only fill the 80 gallon gas tank half way, to keep the overall weight down.
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