Air not dumping from the HWH leveling control panel

jefflbi · 11-02-2023, 01:27 PM

I just replaced all my retraction springs on my motorhome and I want to purge the air out of the hydraulic lines if there is any, but when I follow the instructions on leveling it tells me to put the motorhome in park with the airbrakes on, then turn the key to accessory, press the power button on leveling panel and then press the dump button. This always worked before. Any ideas why it would all of the sudden stop? Might there be a fuse associated with the accessory position? The leveling panel does turn on, as does the rear camera, but none of the other dash lights come on, and to be honest I'm not sure if that's normal or not. TIA.............

Ray,IN · 11-02-2023, 03:50 PM

What brand and model # is your leveling system? This will help identify the model if the brand is HWH.
Without that information, anything we say is a guess.

Since most dump solenoids are powered by 12V, finding out why the touch pad doesn't light up is first.
I once lost all dash lights and even Allison touchpad lights. My cause turned out to be a loose positive cable that powered the entire driver area, on the firewall exterior in front of the driver. Took me and a roadside mechanic an hour to find that loose cable nut. It appeared good but when i touched the retaining nut it moved.

jefflbi · 11-02-2023, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

What brand and model # is your leveling system? This will help identify the model if the brand is HWH.
Without that information, anything we say is a guess.

Since most dump solenoids are powered by 12V, finding out why the touch pad doesn't light up is first.
I once lost all dash lights and even Allison touchpad lights. My cause turned out to be a loose positive cable that powered the entire driver area, on the firewall exterior in front of the driver. Took me and a roadside mechanic an hour to find that loose cable nut. It appeared good but when i touched the retaining nut it moved.

According to that diagram, I have the 325 system. And that's the number on the documentation that came with it. All the buttons look correct except that mine has a dump button which is mentioned for the 325. Some have it, some don't

The touch pad does light up, it shows the out of level amber lights, but the air does not dump and the jacks will not extend. They make a noise but do not move..........

They did extend and retract while I was replacing the rear springs. After I got them done is when all the jacks stopped working. The front springs hadn't been replaced yet but they still did not move.

jefflbi · 11-03-2023, 12:45 PM

As I dig into this further, I'm sure I remember when troubleshooting a problem with my steps I noticed a single red light on in the control box underneath the steps even when the key was off. Now there is no light, but when the key i turned to acc there are 3 little red lights. I'm thinking this might be a fuse problem. I've looked on the chassis fuse box and checked the fuses that appear to have anything to do with the jacks or hydraulic system and so far I haven't found a blown fuse. But I'm wondering if there's a fuse on the control panel itself........... I think I read somewhere that some control panels do have fuses on them.

jefflbi · 11-03-2023, 05:23 PM

So I found this troubleshooting guide for my leveling system. It lists a fuse that might be the problem. I'm assuming this fuse is in the control box underneath the steps........

Ray,IN · 11-03-2023, 06:01 PM

Yep, that's right.The HWH leveling system depends on high battery voltage, and recommend the motor be running when deploying the system. It also depends on a clean solid ground to complete the circuit.

jefflbi · 11-03-2023, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Yep, that's right.The HWH leveling system depends on high battery voltage, and recommend the motor be running when deploying the system. It also depends on a clean solid ground to complete the circuit.

Motor?? As in my diesel engine?? My manual specifically says to turn the key to the ACC position, which is the left, and the engine is off, and which I had been doing without a problem..........

Morich · 11-04-2023, 10:45 AM

I suspect you may be a victim of poorly written or thought out info!
One of the problems when two different groups write info? Any way we know it happens quite often, so we need to do some deeper thinking to sort what might be happening?
The person writing your info on steps is thinking you need the power on, so tells you to turn to ACC. But the person who has more ideas of getting it to work BEST, knows that the best power works things best!
Turning to ACC will likely get you connected to a battery but knowing that hydraulic pumps takes a good amount of power, having the engine running is one way to connect the power from the chassis and alternator to the coach as well. That is one way to give the pump a good, sure, supply of power and let it work the best!

This is a fair amount of guessing an comparing other info we know, so it may not match what some of the info says!
But it may be that you have been getting by fine and now there may be some corrosion or lower battery supply issue sneaking in and it may be kind of borderline on how it works best?

My suggestion as a quick way to spot if it is a battery supply question is to try it with the engine running. We are sure that is not a hazard as we will often do it that way and we have seen no warning NOT to do the jacks when the engine is running.
My thought is that the better supply may make it all work better and then you have a hint that the coach supply alone may be about to give you other trouble?

That's a funky, poor man's way of testing but it seems easy for a quick answer to spot a power problem sneaking in?
It may not tell you anything and Ray is certain to know your coach better but maybe while waiting for him to get back around it would lead to more info?

Ray,IN · 11-04-2023, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefflbi

Motor?? As in my diesel engine?? My manual specifically says to turn the key to the ACC position, which is the left, and the engine is off, and which I had been doing without a problem..........

The 12V dump solenoids are on each end of the valve body and move the plunger so different holes are open/shut.
This has nothing to do with not dumping air, just extending the jacks.
There is a difference between what the coach mfgr. says and the leveling system says.
reference: https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml20673aafaq...nanceQuestions

ACC gets you full battery voltage, the engine running the alternator gets you approx. 14V.

jefflbi · 11-05-2023, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

The 12V dump solenoids are on each end of the valve body and move the plunger so different holes are open/shut.
This has nothing to do with not dumping air, just extending the jacks.
There is a difference between what the coach mfgr. says and the leveling system says.
reference: https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml20673aafaq...nanceQuestions

ACC gets you full battery voltage, the engine running the alternator gets you approx. 14V.

Ray, the problem is if I start the engine, it inflates the air bags and I can't actually level the RV with the air bags inflated, and the dump button doesn't dump the air. My batteries are brand new as of this past spring, buth coach and engine batteries. It's not a power issue. Lie I stated in a previous post, there used to be a singe red light on all the time in the control box attached to the leveling system under the steps. That light is no longer on. When I turn the key to acc I then see 3 smaller red lights but they are different from the single red light that used to be on. The troubleshooting guide I attached to a previous post has a specific procedure when the dump button does not dump the air, and it wants me to check a fuse and the ground, only I don't know where either of those things are. Getting that specific information is where I need to start.

But on a side note, yestrerday after fueling up and started the engine, the warning beeps that a leveling jack is not all the way up started going off. i had just been on the road for 3 hours, and the day before I drove for 7 hours. That warning never came on. Now one of the jacks is extended maybe half an inch, but why all of the sudden the warning tells me I might have a grounding issue.........

jefflbi · 11-05-2023, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morich

I

My suggestion as a quick way to spot if it is a battery supply question is to try it with the engine running. We are sure that is not a hazard as we will often do it that way and we have seen no warning NOT to do the jacks when the engine is running.
My thought is that the better supply may make it all work better and then you have a hint that the coach supply alone may be about to give you other trouble?

That's a funky, poor man's way of testing but it seems easy for a quick answer to spot a power problem sneaking in?
It may not tell you anything and Ray is certain to know your coach better but maybe while waiting for him to get back around it would lead to more info?

My RV does have the option of using the coach batteries to start the engine if the engine batteries are dead. Right now my engine batteries are 12.8 volts and the coach batteries are 13.2. I can use that option to see if the jacks will extend............

Ray,IN · 11-05-2023, 07:32 PM

Part of the problem is, HWH supplies the leveling system to Winnebago, but the dump valve is a winnebago part. Winnebago "marries" the HWH wiring to their wiring and adds the dump valve.
If the wiring is not sending 12V to the dump valve solenoids, the dump valve cannot open or close.
That's what needs to be checked at this point.
Do you know the model # of your leveling system? If you do, just type it into a search engine with service manual following. The service manual has an excellent troubleshooting section.
FWIW, I can level my coach without dumping air, I tried it on a whim, but don't recommend it for everyday use.

jefflbi · 11-06-2023, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Do you know the model # of your leveling system? If you do, just type it into a search engine with service manual following. The service manual has an excellent troubleshooting section.
FWIW, I can level my coach without dumping air, I tried it on a whim, but don't recommend it for everyday use.

In a previous post I already attached the troubleshooting pdf for my series leveling system.....

I've been lucky with my campsites. They've all been level. And if need be I can use leveling blocks under the tires

I found a guy on youtube that offers remote help for a very reasonable price. You just need to have your own multi,meter and tools. I'll be working with him today. Fingers crossed.......

jefflbi · 11-07-2023, 12:49 PM

Just an update to my progress. The remote RV tech was able to walk me thru some troubleshooting steps and in the process we found what is at least part of my issue, and that is a fried connector on the circuit board for the leveling system that is in the control box in front of where the solenoids and relay is for the jacks. The tech says we can fix it........... A new board is $1k, if I can find one, and I'm on the road as I type. I was able to remove the control box, and let me tell you it wasn't easy, but it's necessary and this cannot be repaired without access to the circuit board and the only way to get that access is to remove the control box it is encased in. I will post some pictures..........

jefflbi · 11-08-2023, 06:50 PM

Here's the latest update. I followed the directions from the RV tech and cleaned up the burnt area and removed the flaked up section, then fabricated a jumper from an eyelet and a piece of solid core wire, and then soldering it to a good part of the trace on the circuit board. I used a new screw and nut as was recommended. Tomorrow I will start putting it back in the RV.

Ray,IN · 11-08-2023, 07:47 PM

Shucks, I'm too late. HWH has a short turn-around on their PC board repair service.

jefflbi · 11-10-2023, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Shucks, I'm too late. HWH has a short turn-around on their PC board repair service.

Well I'm not even sure this is gonna work!! I have the control box back in place but I have supplied power to the relays yet. The remote tech wants to test the ohms on the solenoids to make sure one of them didn't cause the issue. And it was much easier putting the box back in. I started up the RV and let the air bags pump up and it gave me like 4 extra inches of room. Huge difference!!

Joeantolik32 · 11-12-2023, 11:45 AM

Looks like quite a bit of heat was applied to that circuit board hope this corrects your issue. This is an interesting problem so just following.

Ray,IN · 11-12-2023, 12:30 PM

I hope your work fixes the problem, HWH reworks them but no new ones are available.

jefflbi · 11-12-2023, 03:18 PM

Just an update for those following........... this has turned into a real nightmare......... The morning I was supposed to leave the campground, I go to pull in my slides and nothing!!!! The slides should have nothing to do with the circuit board I operated on........ I was able to jump the hydraulic starter with a copper wire and with someone else pressing the retractor buttons the slides came in and I was able to vacate my campsite before the checkout time, but now I have to troubleshoot that issue before I continue one with the leveler issue. Every time I've seen a post about slides not working the answer is always seems to be a fuse. Now I have the manual for my rig and it shows the fuse boxes but nothing says anything about the slideouts.......... Tomorrow I'm taking a test light to all the fuse boxes that I know the locations of. I will check every fuse either with the test light or visually inspecting.............