Water Pump Power Problems 2004 Suncruiser

[danhulk]

i have a 2004 wineabago suncruiser i have power at the water pump switch and power going out of switch.no power at the fuse holder at the pump.fuse is good.must be a break in the feed wire.does anybody know how the feed wire is run so i can check it out.

[Ray,IN]

Does it have a latching relay for multiple pump off/on switches?

[danhulk]

dont know it has a pump switch in the wet bay.where would it be located if i had one

[Morich]

To actually look at what you have in wiring, we will have to know which model 2004 Suncruiser you have as there are seven from 31 to 38 feet and they are all different in different ways! Bigger RV tend to have more things like switches!

[danhulk]

It is a 2004 winnebago suncruiser 35U do you need anything else

[Morich]

Ok!We can begin to dig in deeper but I might show you the where and how of finding this info in case it is needed for other things?
I'm guessing your questions is more, Where can I go to find this and test, not so much where the wire actually runs? Sounds dumb until you know how much info they give us!
They actually give us installation drawings which do actually show where the wire cables run. That is helpful if you want to cut a hole in the floor and don't want to cut a cable but I find them hard to read for just wanting to know where a specific wire goes next!

Click to get better view!


But under the blue circle there is good info on what wire IDs are involved at the pump! JS and JY are circuit IDs and we can find them on drawings or this "decoder" chart:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf
That tells us what the wire does in many cases like one goes to ground! And it also tells us the "from " and "to" of that specific wire. This ID is also stamped on the wire ends!



A second set of drawings is the actual diagram of each wire here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_145418.pdf

We can go to this set and search two ways for finding info. We can scan through the drawings looking for the water pump or scan looking for wires JS or JY. I found both on sheet 2 frame 3 (S2F3).


With this info we can see where the cable might run like along the frame. or find the ID on a wire to look at the chart to get a "from and to" info.
Or we can find the pump or wires on the schematic to follow the trail to other items or connections like plugs!

We have lots of info on line but I STILL have yet another question??
Where is this switch where you are testing and not finding power?
Or do you know of other switches and if they are also working?

We could chase the whole circuit but if we can cut the chase, it goes quicker!

The answer is in there somewhere but it's a mighty big RV, if we can cut it down, it helps!
I'm not meaning to dump this all on you if you are not into this type drawing as there is a learning curve but then it might also be just what you need if you are up on reading drawings of this sort??

We don't know how much, how close we need to watch to get the right info to you! It's a fine line between not helping and being a pain for saying too much!

[danhulk]

not much into this electrical reading but will give it a shot.at least got some place to start.the switch i tested was on the monitor panel,the other switch is in the wet bay that pumpswitch dont work also .will try to test it this weekend see if there is power there and going out.thanks fo the information.

[Morich]

No problem on not being into the drawings as it is just a weird area where I have spent lots of time, so I'm willing to go along and try to help sort the problems with folks who have other things that they know!
I may need somebody to help me at any minute, so glad to try to share!

With that in mind, I can do a sort of start on where the chase may lead and try to relay that to you for testing!

Not to rush you but when you get to the question, you might look over this drawing snip and see if these "parts" are something you have or if they are options and you never heard of them?
Click this snip to see better!

It looks like they are on the same battery feed that goes tot he monitor panel and the water pump switches. The thought is that if they are all out, we may need to chase it toward the fuse or look closer at the monitor panel?
I've not worked with this satellite deal, so I'm not even sure what you might see or IF you have one!

Just when you get to it, maybe take a look and if you can tell if they are working, it will be a clue!

Inside lights and vents work, so we know the battery disconnect is on and doing right?

[danhulk]

Everything works all lights,don't have satellite .other water pump switch has power going in and out.need to get under motorhome and try to find that wire.

[Morich]

Odds are good it is not a problem under the RV. Save the sliding!
Is there a light on the monitor panel working? It looks like the same feed so if the power is getting to that light, is it the switch on the panel or outside which is not working?

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by danhulk

i have a 2004 wineabago suncruiser i have power at the water pump switch and power going out of switch.no power at the fuse holder at the pump.fuse is good.must be a break in the feed wire.does anybody know how the feed wire is run so i can check it out.

You have a pump control module that the switches are wired to. This is the most likely location of your power loss. With the model of your unit you can find the location of this module: https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ram/Wiring.htm
Pick your year and model information. Look for the 12 volt wiring installation page for your unit. The module location will be posted there.
Rick

[l1v3fr33ord1]

danhulk-

As Rick pointed out, the wiring diagrams for your 2004 Itasca Suncruiser 35U are here. The "Body, 12V Wiring Diagram," sheet 2, zones A-24 through A-30 (link here) show the as-designed wiring between the monitor panel, the wet bay switch, and the water pump. As near as I can tell, this is a two-way switching circuit, and does not use a latching water pump controller, as a couple folks have suggested it might. A way to be sure that it does or does not have a latching water pump controller is this:

1) Switches are momentary (that is, after you push them they return to the original position by spring action): Most likely have a latching water pump controller
2) Switches are on-off (that is, stay put after you push them): Most likely do not have a latching water pump controller

As "Morich" suggests, the place to start is by looking at the LED on the monitor panel, then the LED on the wet bay switch. Are one or both on when you manipulate the switch on the monitor panel?

Next, look at the wet bay switch. The 12V to the water pump starts there on switch pin 2. Thrown in one direction, it comes out on pin 1, and in the other it comes out on pin 3. Does the switch work correctly?

There are other tests after that, but if you reports these results we can decide which way to go.

Others have recommended you download, store and learn to read Winnebago's diagrams. I agree. Sometimes it helps to simplify the diagrams, focusing on the circuit of interest. I made diagrams of the switch-and-pump circuit for another thread, using a Winnebago wiring diagram similar to the one I linked to above. You might find it easier than reading Winnebago's diagrams. If your coach's circuit has not been modified the circuit should look like one of these two diagrams.

[Morich]

My thought was to keep it simple and not urge a novice to move into sorting out the switching until he found if the basic power was working. The monitor panel light would seem to be an easy way to tell if that circuit for JA is hot, without needing to sort the contacts on the switches.

As I read it, this is a panel light, not an indicator light for the pump.
My thought was using the panel light to indicate power is getting to the monitor panel as an easy/ quick look. JA also feeds a number of other items but the OP may not be aware of where and how to find them. But I thought finding the monitor panel light might ease the search.

There are also two plugs behind the panel but those require a bit more digging, so I put that off until needed!

But the OP may be busy, found the problem and moved on, or just doing some slow careful thinking!

As an aside? Where are you finding the on-none-on switch drawings? That is certainly a weird item for me but I do know there are tons of different industries using all kinds of "special" stuff for their needs. Just never seen that type.
I can't think of a time when we would want a momentary switch for the basic water pump if it were not tied to a latching relay??

I spend a lot of time in drawings for Japanese equipment and I have to be open to learning a "different" drawing style!

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Richard-

I agree with your approach as expressed in post #8, which is to ensure that all "uses" for 12V supply circuit "JA" are working. This is an equivalent to the first questions compuer help-desk folks ask: "Is it plugged in? Is it turned on?" I do get that you were trying to avoid having him pulling the wet bay switch and dragging out (or borrowing) a voltmeter as a first step.

But, in post #8 the OP wrote: "Everything works all lights...," and while that doesn't address the monitor panel light in particular it implies it and other JA-supplied devices are working. They might not, though. That's why I thought I'd ask the OP to come at it from the wet bay switch side, where "JA" lands first in the water pump circuit.

You are also correct that I would not expect the coach to have momentary switches unless it has a latching relay. Here's a couple of reasons I didn't express it more emphatically:

a) If you followed "dkoldman's" thread, in a recent post (link here) he wants to replace a momentary switch that powers a drain pump in his 29VE's outdoor kitchen. It's a different application than the water pump for the coach fresh water supply, I know. Strictly speaking, Winnebago does use momentary switches with pumps, when it suits them- just not with the "main" water pump unless it has a latching controller, and again, as far as I know now.

b) I've found that when I come out strongly, implying "This is the way it is!!," I'm either incorrect (some of the time) or I push too hard on the person whose question I am answering. I learned a while ago I'm better off using words like "should" or "may" or "might" when responding. Unless there's a serious safety issue involved, I try to avoid strongly-worded responses.

Finally, on the ON-NONE-ON (also known as ON-ON) switches. until "dkoldman's" thread I was only vaguely aware they existed and clueless about how they worked. I learned a lot about them in a short time. The most enlightening part was to find that this is a common way of setting up two-way switching. Two interesting sub-points here, too:

a) In 2012 three-way switching came up (on iRV2) and was answered. See this post for a mind-expanding diagram on how to use three ON-NONE-ON switches to switch the water pump. Who needs a latching controller?

b) You and the other "old timers" know that Winnebago dropped many online diagrams from the sets for coaches made 2010 and later. Sometimes, though, Winnebago had coach features/option in the "old" coaches that they continue to this day. One of my tricks is to look at pre-2010 diagrams and see if I can find similarities to modern coaches. That was the case with the two-way water pump switching. I could see the same 15-pin connector feeding the 2019 Sunstar 29VE monitor panel as in a 2009 something-or-other that had two water pump switches. Once I found that, it was fairly easy to extract that circuit out of the 2009 diagram.

[Morich]

Yes, it seems too easy to just say it all works when they actually mean all the things they checked are working and that is often just all the lights!
But not necessarily the light for the monitor panel?

[danhulk]

got motorhome in storage now will check wet bay switch when i get it out in the spring thank you