Diesel vs Gas

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I find that the diesel RV does more than "approach" the mpg of gas models. In my experience it greatly exceeds them. I know it is not quite the same but my Class A gas Winnebago Sightseer (2008) got only half the mileage my Class C diesel Winnebago Fuse gets..

I didn't respond to the fuel mileage portion of the same comment, but I would agree. [Edit: Looking back I guess I did respond to that claim.] There's practically no way with two similar vehicles that the diesel wouldn't get significantly better fuel mileage.

Just look in the full size truck world at the MPG for the new 3.0 diesels. The GM model is pushing 30 mpg! No gas engine can come close. And the reason I own a diesel midsize is because of the lack of larger fuel tanks on mid-size pickups. I wanted some decent range when towing. Finally, the reason diesel cars are so big in Europe is the fuel mileage and reduced CO2 emissions. When VW recalled all their diesels it had an adverse impact on CO2 emissions the following year!

[MicroMinnie]

Yah This reminds me of the Amsoil discussions, I'd run what you like best.

For me I love my diesel vehicles , just more fun to drive - the little 2.8L
duramax when I step on it, doesn't shift down. love that, our Mercedes 3.0
does 75MPH @ 1350RPM nice and Loooow

It's possible to get gas MPG's close to diesel in cars but the EPA would shut it down pronto.
Remember the Honda Civic VX, back in 1993 50MPG's, at par with a Golf diesel - quite something.
Now Mazda has a small "diesel" but runs on gasoline, SkyActive-X 54MPG

Not many turbo charged gas powered options around here for RV, when you need raw power, torque and some distance on a 25 GAL tank

If GM hadn't put that diesel in the Cadillac back in 1978 North America would have adopted diesel technology like they did in Europe.

[SaltLife]

Bud had both and settled on the Class A pusher, '38 350hp Cat. We bought a new to us Class A pusher, '40 400hp Cummins, our 1st motorhome. Being a pusher, it's super quiet in the cab as been mentioned, great air ride suspension. Rides better than my 2500 RAM. Can put on a lot of miles w/o getting tired out. I know we'll always stay with a diesel. I do all the general maintenance. Instead of 6/7 qts of oil, it's 6gals. But the extra expense is worth it if you travel a lot, imo..........

[cj_calva]

We were on the road with a Gasser for years. The last one was a 2008 Adventurer 35 A. The reason why we switched to a diesel pusher was the "silent comfort". With the pre-2016 Ford V10 power unit and the 5-speed automatic transmission it was very annoying and tiring to be driving on longer distances (ok, this is my personal view). In the cruise control mode at the slightest grade, the transmission shifted back into 3rd gear and made the engine sream. I also installed a chip tuning, which gave slightly more torque as well as noise absorbing material inside and outside the doghouse and on the inside of the front. But even then, it was not possible to talk to the passenger in normal voice.
In this respect, the diesel pusher (Forza 34T) is of course much more comfortable to travel and also allows for massively longer distances without getting tired. But here, too, we first had to install some noise-absorbing material (in the storage space below the bed).

The big advantages of the Gas-Class A are in the money. You save a few tens of thousands of dollars when you buy it and thousands more when you have to maintain it. With relatively little money, you can make appropriate noise reduction measures and a small engine tuning. As long as you don't drive 600+ miles interstate distances very often, you will be very good with a Gas-Class A. Especially since the introduction of the 6-speed transmission in 2016 and the slightly different engine layout of the V10 (less horsepower, more torque) the above mentioned disadvantages have been reduced. One can be excited about the new 7.3L V8.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by MicroMinnie

For me I love my diesel vehicles , just more fun to drive - the little 2.8L
duramax when I step on it, doesn't shift down. love that, our Mercedes 3.0
does 75MPH @ 1350RPM nice and Loooow.

What am I missing?

Before we bought our 2018 Winnebago Fuse diesel we thought about getting the 2018 Winnebago ERA. That is a Class B RV on a MB chassis with what I think is the same MB diesel you mention above, but when I test drove it I found that the diesel was running 2700-2800 rpm at 65 mph and was in top gear. That is not the reason we decided against the ERA - it had no storage, was not the old wide-body Class B and so had no inside room and I did worry about having to find a MB dealer to service it.

I am just a bit puzzled as to the high speed and low rpm you mention for the MB. Our Ford diesel, which we are very happy with, runs at about 2100-2200 rpm at our normal highway speed of about 63-65 mph and typically gives us 17-18 mph on relatively flat roads. I find I can climb 3-4% grades in high gear on cruise control without having the auto transmission downshift although it can be a bit noisy when it does downshift. Generally the most noise we hear is simple road noise.

[Reniram]

We had the big discussion at the rv camp about the future of the internal combustion engines.. the europeans are basically leading the way to eliminate the dirty diesels and gas guzzlers ..Electric motors are being forced upon us along with self driving and automatic braking etc. etc..It seems that by the year 2035 we will not be allowed or able to buy or use anything with a gas / diesel!...We wondered if there will be a cash for clunkers deal again.....

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by cj_calva

We were on the road with a Gasser for years. The last one was a 2008 Adventurer 35 A. The reason why we switched to a diesel pusher was the "silent comfort". With the pre-2016 Ford V10 power unit and the 5-speed automatic transmission it was very annoying and tiring to be driving on longer distances (ok, this is my personal view). In the cruise control mode at the slightest grade, the transmission shifted back into 3rd gear and made the engine sream.

Excellent point about the noise in a gas engine under load. People think of diesel engines as being noisy, but at load they are actually quieter due to typically running at much lower RPMs (as well as due to the quieting effects of turbo-chargers and the emissions equipment). In one test I saw the 2.8 Duramax diesel was about 4db quieter than the 3.6 gas engine towing 6100 pounds up a pass using GM similar midsize pickups. That's significantly quieter with the engine in the same location. And it's because the diesel was running under 3,000 RPMs and the gas about 5,000 RPM.

But if you want to hear a gas engine scream, start watching at about the 13 minute mark of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnl9OUg5YxY

For me though it's not so much the noise going up grades, as the RPMs. I'm just not comfortable with a large engine turning high RPMs for a significant duration of time (unless it's a rental). If it's a small engine sure, but not a larger engine.

[SaltLife]

When we had our 5er I had a 6.4 Hemi. I towed in 4th gear, it had 6. That seemed to be the sweet spot for more torque to tow. It wasn't loud until it downshifted on occasion, then you would swear it was going to blow.... Diesel pushers are the way to go for all out comfort....... Just a bigger learning curve to learn how to drive. Class C would be more like a pickup....

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by SaltLife

When we had our 5er I had a 6.4 Hemi. I towed in 4th gear, it had 6. That seemed to be the sweet spot for more torque to tow. It wasn't loud until it downshifted on occasion, then you would swear it was going to blow.... Diesel pushers are the way to go for all out comfort....... Just a bigger learning curve to learn how to drive. Class C would be more like a pickup....

There's also the "Super C" where the chassis is a more heavy duty diesel. A bit noisier than a pusher, but it has some advantages (e.g. windshield replacement, engine access, etc.).

https://www.tfltruck.com/2020/02/sem...d-yacht-video/

[MicroMinnie]

Our SUV is the Mercedes GLE350d, 9 speed transmission, maybe they put the 7speed in the RV's ? The GLE engine is setup at 245HP 455 ft/lbs of torque.

We tow a 2108FBS with it, more than enough power to pull our 4100LBS

World of difference to our other tow rig the GMC Canyon 2.8L Duramax, it pulls the 4100LBS but not much power left over, struggles to reach 75MPH, lacks the HP to do it, wind drag is the killer. I don't tow at 75MPH but passing with the Canyon is a tuff one.

[SaltLife]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

There's also the "Super C" where the chassis is a more heavy duty diesel. A bit noisier than a pusher, but it has some advantages (e.g. windshield replacement, engine access, etc.).

https://www.tfltruck.com/2020/02/sem...d-yacht-video/

Wow, those Super Cs are a whole another animal.... A miny semi.....

[SaltLife]

Originally Posted by MicroMinnie

Our SUV is the Mercedes GLE350d, 9 speed transmission, maybe they put the 7speed in the RV's ? The GLE engine is setup at 245HP 455 ft/lbs of torque.

We tow a 2108FBS with it, more than enough power to pull our 4100LBS

World of difference to our other tow rig the GMC Canyon 2.8L Duramax, it pulls the 4100LBS but not much power left over, struggles to reach 75MPH, lacks the HP to do it, wind drag is the killer. I don't tow at 75MPH but passing with the Canyon is a tuff one.

I believe most Motorhomes are 6spds. But trannys keep changing, especially in pickups. I believe RAM is up to 8spds.....

[RightUR]

Originally Posted by Bloveall

I have a 2013 Winnebago Vista and want to start towing a. Dingy. I have heard that if you want to tow a dingy especially through mountains that a gas powered V10 might not have enough power.

I would appreciate any comments on Diesel va Gas as I am considering getting a larger motor home and want to make an informed decision.

Thank you

Hmm. Most of your Gasser (of the last 5-8 yrs) don't offer more than 320-340 Horse power. With 200 Hp you can usually pull up to 5000 lbs (dinghy). But you're not only moving a dinghy you're also moving (26K-32K+ Lbs) a Household (bathroom, Living rm. Bed rm., Kitchen. Water heater, Clothes etc.) On top of the 200 Hp they added another 120 Hp. Anyway what matters the most on Mohos is torque, you want better power at lower speeds. having higher torque allows for greater horsepower at lower rpms. Most of your Gassers are built with f53 chassis V10 Tritons from Ford 320 Hp, with 460 lbs of torque.
Your smaller (engines) Moho diesels usually start with 340Hp engines providing 700 lbs of torque. What a jump right? So in Moho's the higher you go in Hp the steeper the difference in price. Your 360 Hp engines give you 800 lbs torque. I don't Pull Anything, so for what I do a 360Hp or 380Hp would be optimal, also I rarely go beyond the 55-63 mph range on Hwy's. But if you have enough $$$ go for the 400-450 Hp's. If money is not a worry then the 600's or newer 605's is what you want to look at.

[RightUR]

Originally Posted by creativepart

The diesel vs gas question comes up frequently on all RV forums.

There is no reason not to buy a recent gas class a. Towing within your weight limits is not an issue.

There are pluses and minuses to both kinds of Motorhomes. We have a newer gas Class A and we don’t find it lacking in performance. It’s much cheaper to maintain every year and cost $60,000 less than the comparable diesel version of the floor plan. We also don’t find it too noisy, not even in the mountains.

Diesel chassis motorhomes are certainly great too. They generally have a better, quieter ride. But do in fact cost more to purchase and maintain.

It comes down to your budget and your personal preference.

I don't dispute your experiences. It's just pretty hard to find a 40-45 ft gassers with the desired floor plans (very important to the DW). I know the Newmar Canyon star tops at 39'11". A fine product. Newmar meant well. But we thought it was a little too much for a 320Hp engine (after we loaded all our stuff).

[SaltLife]

Originally Posted by RightUR

I don't dispute your experiences. It's just pretty hard to find a 40-45 ft gassers with the desired floor plans (very important to the DW). I know the Newmar Canyon star tops at 39'11". A fine product. Newmar meant well. But we thought it was a little too much for a 320Hp engine (after we loaded all our stuff).

I would agree on the lack of power for the length. We have an older 40' Winnie 400hp, 1100 torque. It seems to be plenty motor. I pretty much figured no less than a 350hp. Torque is king...
But, I'm no expert...

[RightUR]

Originally Posted by Reniram

We had the big discussion at the rv camp about the future of the internal combustion engines.. the europeans are basically leading the way to eliminate the dirty diesels and gas guzzlers ..Electric motors are being forced upon us along with self driving and automatic braking etc. etc..It seems that by the year 2035 we will not be allowed or able to buy or use anything with a gas / diesel!...We wondered if there will be a cash for clunkers deal again.....

No in the U.S.A, if it comes to that, many of our vehicles will be "Grandfathered."

[creativepart]

We have a 38" 2017 Adventurer. It's the F53 Ford with the V10 6-sp powertrain - 320hp but 460 lbft torque. We tow a 4,400 lb toad and living out west we travel in the mountains a LOT. We've weighed with full gas, water, all of our stuff, my wife and I, our dog and the Toad connected and out total weight is 28,000 lbs. The RV is rated for 30,000 max weight.

We have 27,000 miles and 2 1/2 years of driving under our belts. About 1/3rd of those miles are traveling in the Rockies, specifically Nothern NM and Southern CO.

We have zero complaints about the pulling power of our RV with this drivetrain, nor do we have excess noise inside the cabin. The loudest would be when downshifting to 2nd gear while descending mountain passes to save the brakes from overheating.

Now, would a DP be nice. Sure, it would be better ride quality and perhaps slightly better fuel mileage (at higher cost). But we're completely happy with our rig from both power and noise aspects (and most other aspects too).

[RightUR]

Originally Posted by SaltLife

I would agree on the lack of power for the length. We have an older 40' Winnie 400hp, 1100 torque. It seems to be plenty motor. I pretty much figured no less than a 350hp. Torque is king...
But, I'm no expert...

OMG a 400Hp on a 40' is gravy. Initially we wanted a 40'. the DW kept saying "nothing bigger than a 40' " I didn't mind, fine with me. Then we got into the tour/ellipse and she saw the Floor plan with the dual vanity and she said:"this is it, take it." I said:"You do know this is 43 ft (42'10"), right?" all of a sudden she didn't care. LOL. In my mind I was thinking:"Darn, I should have shown her a 45 footer with dual vanity AND Walk in closet." LOL.

[creativepart]

I'll add to my comment above... the Class A gas motorhomes have the 3-valve head and have been derated in HP to move peak torque to a more usable 3,000 rpm.

We previously owned a 31' Class C with E450. It had the same motor but with the 2-valve head. It was pre-2016 so it had the 5 spd transmission.

That class C was noisy, difficult to drive and no fun to live with.

Sometimes when folks respond to the Gas/Diesel question all they know about is what their experience has been. For us the difference between the 2015 E450 and the 2017 F53 is a day and night difference.

[RightUR]

Originally Posted by creativepart

"But we're completely happy with our rig from both power and noise aspects (and most other aspects too)".

As you should be, that's all that matters.

P.s. Hey neighbor, Good to meet you. You're in spring branch I'm on 410 and 281 in San Antone.