Adding access to dinette storage

[Komvee]

Hi All,

I have a 2007 Access 26A. We have lot's of room under the dinette seats, but for some reason Winnebago decided not to put access doors, so you have to pull up the cushions and pull up the plywood to get underneath... Whew!

I want to buy two matching cabinet doors, make the cutouts on the side of the dinette, and mount the doors.

So, how can I find a couple of matching doors with hardware? There are no cabinet doors on my rig anywhre near the right size, but I am sure the one's that were on my old SightSeer 30B were good, but how could I find them and make sure they are the same type of wood/finish?

Thanks!

[Komvee]

Hi All,

I have a 2007 Access 26A. We have lot's of room under the dinette seats, but for some reason Winnebago decided not to put access doors, so you have to pull up the cushions and pull up the plywood to get underneath... Whew!

I want to buy two matching cabinet doors, make the cutouts on the side of the dinette, and mount the doors.

So, how can I find a couple of matching doors with hardware? There are no cabinet doors on my rig anywhre near the right size, but I am sure the one's that were on my old SightSeer 30B were good, but how could I find them and make sure they are the same type of wood/finish?

Thanks!

[Komvee]

I could. Maybe I can pull off another cabinet door and see what I can find that is close...

Winnebago wants $90 a pop for their doors without any hardware...

[John Hilley]

There are a lot of doors in the Winnebago Surplus Center in Forrest City. $2.00 each. Go to GNR or make a factory visit.

[bruceh]

What is 'GNR'?

Thanks

[Beabop]

Grand National Rally held every July at Forest City

[Komvee]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beabop:
Grand National Rally held every July at Forest City </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am in San Diego; surely not worth $1500 in gas or airfare.

[NeilV]

Warren,

I would call Winnebago and ask first. the booth in your Access has four belted riding positions somthing that you usually do not get on a booth with drawers or doors.

The upgrade is the Benchmark dinette which has a steel frame and hinged seats.

If you simple cut out a hole and slap on a door you may violate the integrity of the booth so it is no longer safe to use while driving which would then require the removal of the seat belts and the addition of the red warning stickers indicating that the benches in the booth are not riding positions.

You may not use the booth as a riding position but the next owner may and if an injury resulted from your modification, of undermining the structure of the end panel by cutting a hole in it, then you could be held liable.

With the way the economy is insurance investigators and adjusters would look closely at any modifications to the structure in the event of a claim due to a failure.

[Rocky Larson]

Here is a list of RV Salvage yards. Might be a good place to start if your model ever offered dinette drawers:http://www.rverscorner.com/rvsalvage.html

[ichn2go]

NeilV, while I usually agree with you , I think your post is a strech.

A opening in the end of the seat should in no way comprimise the integrity of the seat. Most door have a "lip" around them and the inset part would be the same size as the opening. I have read of other folks putting doors in the end of their dinettes. I know seat belts are in the picture, but that really shouldn't matter. You said it was a steel frame. Yes, anything is possible ,,but how probable?

If it wasn't for cost I would think drawers under all dinettes would be the answer. I hated lifting the seat on the Horizon.

Be Safe and a Happy New Year to all.

[Komvee]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeilV:
Warren,

I would call Winnebago and ask first. the booth in your Access has four belted riding positions somthing that you usually do not get on a booth with drawers or doors. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only have 3 belted positions. Same configuration my SightSeer had, but it had the cabinet doors. Other than that the dinettes are exactly the same so I don't think it would cause any issues.

[Komvee]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rocky Larson:
Here is a list of RV Salvage yards. Might be a good place to start if your model ever offered dinette drawers:http://www.rverscorner.com/rvsalvage.html </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Rocky.

[NeilV]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Komvee:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeilV:
Warren,

I would call Winnebago and ask first. the booth in your Access has four belted riding positions somthing that you usually do not get on a booth with drawers or doors. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only have 3 belted positions. Same configuration my SightSeer had, but it had the cabinet doors. Other than that the dinettes are exactly the same so I don't think it would cause any issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>.

The trick is to know the rules and not to assume. The underlying structure, the grade of substrate, type of adhesives, method of joinery and the type of mount for the seatbelt would have a lot to do with it. They may look exactly or close to being the same on the surface but are they really? The Benchmark dinette on the other hand is not a wooden dinette but upholstery over a steel frame and innerspring base.

The drawers, and I have had two coaches with them, are problematic and one of the biggest warranty headaches according to the dealers that I have spoken with. They limit your storage capacity and are prone to damage to the drawer slides, drawer boxes and latches which is more of a bother then the lift up seat bottoms. Even worse are just doors on the side where you have to reach in three feet to get to the stuff in the back. With the lift up seat you have total access, clear vision, large capacity and a very sturdy low maintenance assembly.

Which is really worse? After putting up with the drawers personally I am getting tired of them and am tempted to remove them, block off the openings with the draw fronts mounted solidy in place and put hindges on the seat bottoms making them into bins.

Another possibility is to put a bulkhead 12 inches back from the drawer opening, making the drawer front into a hinged door giving me a 12 inch deep cabinett by the walkway and making the rest of the area into a bin extending to the outside wall.

This would make the dinette stronger and give a better storage option for bedding in the bin part and access to items used more regularly in the cabinett portion.

You got me thinking on this again and I might just fire up my CAD station and work through a redesign of my own dinette both.

[Komvee]

I guess it's hard to say.

My seatbelts run down and are mounted to the floor, not the dinette subframe.

I did call Winnebago and they use the same base materials in all dinette and cabinetry build across the models and I was told I could actually buy the seating end panels if I want from another model and they would fit, as they already have the cutout, but at a really hefty price. They did not put the storage doors in for cost-savings on the lower-end coaches like mine.

We added rollout baskets under our previous coah and it made for easy access to those thing we didn't use too often.

Hmmmm...

[Pusherman]

I have had both the drawers under the dinette seat on my '00 Journey, and now have the lift-up seat for access on my current Journey. I prefer the new configuration, as there is more usable room under the dinette seat. The drawers don't utilize the space efficiently.

Also I had problems with the drawers with the bottoms falling out due to the shape of the drawer (long and narrow).

P.S. We specifically ordered the coach WITH the dinette as it provides significant storage under the seats, as compared to the table configuration.

[NeilV]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ichn2go:
NeilV, while I usually agree with you , I think your post is a strech.

A opening in the end of the seat should in no way comprimise the integrity of the seat. Most door have a "lip" around them and the inset part would be the same size as the opening. I have read of other folks putting doors in the end of their dinettes. I know seat belts are in the picture, but that really shouldn't matter. You said it was a steel frame. Yes, anything is possible ,,but how probable?

If it wasn't for cost I would think drawers under all dinettes would be the answer. I hated lifting the seat on the Horizon.

Be Safe and a Happy New Year to all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ichn,

I spent almost 30 years in the construction and millwork trades and have quite some experience in cabinet/casework in all phases from design to manufacturing to final installation. I have even custom built panel saws and milling machines from scratch to support the manufacturing of doors and casework in factories that have in excess of 500 employees. So I can say from experience that you can't indiscriminately cut away at cabinet frames and end panels without compromising the integrity of the case in some fashion. Even if the end panel is designed for a door cutout you still have to follow the lines so to speak and not cut away too much structure or there will be a greater potential for failure or collapse especially when the stresses of a collision are involved. Add to that the stresses of seat belts bolted to the floor and then threaded over the back edge of the seat panel and you now have the forces multiplied and concentrated into small areas.

Some doors do have lips or offsets but this is traditionaly a dust seal and not a structural component of the design. There also has to be an easement or clearance gap between the lip and face frames to allow the door/drawer to operate smoothly without binding. This allows for movement of the frames before they bind up on the doors or drawer fronts which can then break the glue bond holding the frames together. The door or drawer will usually pop open then taking it out of the picture as a structural member.

The three foot long drawers under the dinette are not a Shangrala and can/do require regular repairs to keep them on their tracks and in working order. The separation of the joinery at the drawer opening has also been a problem that I have had to repair on my own and have helped others fix also. The BenchMark described in the link below looks like it would eliminate these problems with more steel and less weak areas:

http://www.winnebagoind.com/products.../benchmark.php

I also have read about a lot of people doing things without thinking them through and many times they get away with it but when it finally catches up with them it can be quite devastating. I had one guy who did not like the inconvenience of using the secondary locking bolts on our 15 hp spindle shaper and got away with it for quite some time until that one day when he sent one of the two eight by six inch custom profiled knives made from quarter inch thick tool steel flying through one hundred feet of workspace before imbedding itself in the three quarter inch thick backing of a cedar china case we were bulding for a restaraunt. The knife penatrated three inches through the back and the force knocked the twelve foot high case over onto the workman who thankfully ended up inside the case without any injuries. This one ended up ok and there were between twenty and thirty potential victims present when this happened but sadly this is not always the case.

When we customise our motor homes we do have to be responsible (I know you are not endorsing irresponsible behavior) and think of not only our own immediate convenience but also the safety of our families and passengers.

On this one the reasonable thing is to contact Winnies customer service rep and if the mod is allowable get them to send a measured drawing showing where and what size to cut the opening along with the details on any structural enhancements that would be required to support the modification.

First and foremost, like you said and this is what I am endorsing, "Be Safe!"

[Dsouthw524]

If you choose to use doors, you might find that the doors are available from Rockler wood worker's store. They have vendors that will even make custom doors to fit.

Personally, we have had both the door and drawer setup and the lift up panel. We find that the drawers waste quite a bit of space.

[ichn2go]

Neil, I don't want to pursue what happens when a blade comes of a cutting device..
To each his own and I like the drawers only because I have two hands to load whatever in them. I did not like to have to hold the seat up to load the area so I never used under the seat for storage. Yes there are solutions to this also, but I had my coach to enjoy not to continualy find solutions. Everyone uses their coach in their own way. It did provide more space over the drawers but I had other areas that were empty so space was not a issue.

As we all know anything is possible and when you say it won't happen it usually does.Pros and Cons to everything..You stay well and have a Happy New Year

[ctcamper]

I'm in the process of adding easy access to that hard to reach area under the dinette seats of my access.
My adventurer had the drawers and I ended up rebuilding the mounts and slides as the plastic glides the factory used would break. Plus the drawers were very small to accommodate the added room needed for seatbelts.

I do not use the bench as a travel seat so the seatbelts are not something I will be using, which will allow me to maximize space as much as possible. A drawer will still not completely utilize all area availible but it will be better than not using it because it's so hard to get at with the moving around of cushions etc...
Taking a look at the construction of the bench, Front panel is made of a 1 x 3 across the top, a 3/4 square on the bottom and two peices of 1x2 inbetween the top and bottom peices attached with outside staples. A very thin , maybe 2mm panel,with a vinyl wood veneer on it,is attached to cover the open space. not sturdy by any means and easily moved around by slight hand pressure. The end cap is a single peice of a particle type board. If one was worried about the integrity of the end cap, you could cut the hole it it and frame the inside with 1 x 2 boards and end up with a stronger piece than the factory. The back of the bench is made the same way as the front piece - thin ply over a minimal frame.

I was looking at two ways to add storage - One to add doors to the front panel under the table and end cap and two: to make drawers.
I have decided the drawers would be the way to go. I mainly want an area to store tee shirts, shorts and misc clothing since the coach is lacking on enough drawers to do that. Nothing really heavy. Maybe my llbean screen room also.
Without the need for seatbelts I will be able to construct a drawer 8 inches high, and at least 19 1/2 wide, and 42 deep. Not exact measurements yet -- might have to make it around 19 3/4 or so wide depending on the slide framework.
At a later date I can always turn the drawer fronts into hinged doors if the drawer doesn't work out.
So far the intended plan is as follows, subject to modification as needed or if problems crop up

I just ordered these rollers which I will use in place of a slide:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/pa...614,43617&ap=1

I will be running a 1 by 4 down both sides to serve as the roller base. I am going with a roller about every 5 inches I think. A piece of lauan for the bottoms over the seatbelts and seatbelt attachment bolts might be needed so the drawer doesn't catch or hit the seatbelts. I may or may not remove them until I sell the coach.
The drawer will be made from 1/2 inch furniture grade birch ply from home depot and a lauan bottom with 3/4 inch ( oak or poplar) frame underneath to support the lauan and keep the fairly large drawer rigid. I got a new table saw for Christmas so I can put that to good use.

I have yet to work out how I'll keep the drawer in place. Small barrel bolt or roller clasp or hasp ... I haven't gotten that far ahead

I'll do one side to start and build the drawer first. I may even take a scrap piece of ply to cut out a temp end peice to test before cutting into the stock piece.

I have heard others have used heavy duty roller slides with success but I was looking to keep the cost down as much as possible. I can use that extra couple of hundred in gas

[Komvee]

Very nice ctcaamper - Keep us posted on the progress!