Ac tripping house breaker

Steve77 · 02-07-2021, 06:21 PM

So we took our first trip in our 2301bhs trailer. We got a watchdog 30 amp surge plus EPO. We got to site and turned on both ac's and the watchdog shut us down immediately ... Error code saying trailer was drawing more than 30 amps.

Then we got home and I plugged into a 15 amp receptacle on 15 amp breaker, and the front ac is tripping the house breaker. Only thing running on the circuit. The rear ac runs fine on the 15 amp breaker.

Both ac's are 13.5. Does it sound like the front ac has a capacator problem? I should I be able to run both ac's on 30 amp and either by itself on 15amp right?

**creativepart** · 02-07-2021, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve77

?I should I be able to run both ac's on 30 amp and either by itself on 15amp right?

Two A/Cs will take about 28 amps and the few other loads you have will spoil the party. The largest “hidden” load is your converter/charger.

This will also be the case running one A/C on 15 amps.

Your A/Cs may run with a few less amps, but every time the compressor starts the load will increase. If absolutely no otherAC loads are running you might squeak by but your converter will just about always be trying to charge or maintain your batteries and service 12v loads too.

Plan on needing 20-amps for one A/C and 50-amp service for two.

Note that this doesn’t mean you don’t have some other problem, but even if you don’t have other problems you still are bumping up against the amp overload issue.

Steve77 · 02-08-2021, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

Two A/Cs will take about 28 amps and the few other loads you have will spoil the party. The largest “hidden” load is your converter/charger.

This will also be the case running one A/C on 15 amps.

Your A/Cs may run with a few less amps, but every time the compressor starts the load will increase. If absolutely no otherAC loads are running you might squeak by but your converter will just about always be trying to charge or maintain your batteries and service 12v loads too.

Plan on needing 20-amps for one A/C and 50-amp service for two.

Note that this doesn’t mean you don’t have some other problem, but even if you don’t have other problems you still are bumping up against the amp overload issue.

Makes sense. Few follow up questions. I thought I had read somewhere the trailer had a load shed system to handle this? Can I safely just use the 50 amp service with my 30 amp cord by way of adapter? If so I should have got the 50 amp surge + EPO right? Little confused why Winnebago would put two a/c's in the trailer with 30 amp if it can't handle the load?

Morich · 02-08-2021, 08:10 AM

You are very likely to be running into the situation where the AC "might" run on 15 amp but then when starting a motor draws a lot of current until it gets moving, so I would be surprised to see it work out.
The 15 amp is more designed for house loads like like and outlets. But we do often get houses where two kitchen times will trip the breaker, so it is not a strong circuit for AC. If the coffee pot and toaster will trip a breaker, think of how large the compressor in an AC is? It gets down to theory versus real life!

**creativepart** · 02-08-2021, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve77

Little confused why Winnebago would put two a/c's in the trailer with 30 amp if it can't handle the load?

50-amp WBGO motorhomes have load shedding systems, but I don’t know if their TTs do or not. If it does there should be a PCS monitor in the Tech cabinet/area.

**creativepart** · 02-08-2021, 08:30 AM

I just checked the specifications for your model and see that a second A/C is optional. But I couldn’t find any mention of a 50-amp option.

I know some older WBGO motorhomes came with 30-amp service and two A/Cs. So that seems it is possible.

Our motorhome has 50-amp service and two A/C units. When we are plugged into 30-amp service via an adapter we generally can only run one A/C at a time. And we have a power control system that manages that.

If you have a TT with 30-amp service you do not want a 50-amp EMS nor do you want to plug into 50-amp shore power via an adapter.

50-amp service is much more than 20 more amps. It is two totally separate legs of 110v 50-amp power (100-amps total) on one plug.

**creativepart** · 02-08-2021, 08:38 AM

If your TT is new this will be of no interest to you probably, but just to mention the possibility, a number of people have upgraded their RV from 30-amp to 50-amp service. An internet search will show up a number of discussions on the topic.

Steve77 · 02-08-2021, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

I just checked the specifications for your model and see that a second A/C is optional. But I couldn’t find any mention of a 50-amp option.

I know some older WBGO motorhomes came with 30-amp service and two A/Cs. So that seems it is possible.

Our motorhome has 50-amp service and two A/C units. When we are plugged into 30-amp service via an adapter we generally can only run one A/C at a time. And we have a power control system that manages that.

If you have a TT with 30-amp service you do not want a 50-amp EMS nor do you want to plug into 50-amp shore power via an adapter.

50-amp service is much more than 20 more amps. It is two totally separate legs of 110v 50-amp power (100-amps total) on one plug.

I guess the question I am left scratching my head over is....why would Winnebago sell a trailer with two AC's if they cant both run at the same time? I know some trailer's with two A/C units have a selector switch - where you have to select either/or AC - but mine does not. I guess I would expect to be able to run everything simultaneously without issue, or have to worry about it. I guess if I didn't have the watchdog the 30 amp breaker might not have tripped and we would have never been the wiser. I mean, the breaker didnt trip so.

I cant find anything now on the load shed system I thought I read the trailer had. So, could I install a soft start on the A/C's and run them together or its a crap shoot?

**creativepart** · 02-08-2021, 10:14 AM

Do you have one thermostat or two? If you have one, does it have a zone button? That's how you choose which unit to run and the temp setting for each.

About the soft start, that can work but as you said " its a crap shoot".

Steve77 · 02-08-2021, 10:57 AM

Nope, the thermostat works the main, ducted, AC. The bedroom AC is controlled by dials on the unit in the ceiling.

OK I found the video I was talking about. This video is on Winnebago's website under the Minnie section - so its produced by Winnebago. At 1:30 he starts talking about the energy management system, and specifically says you will be able to run both AC's together, on 30 amp service.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZFi...ature=emb_logo

But, where that energy management system is I have no idea. Maybe it is built into the circuit breaker box and out of sight? We looked at lots of 2021 trailers, and not all of them had what he is talking about in this video - flush floors, heated basement storage, heating ducts out of middle of floor, etc. so I am wondering if maybe I dont have the "energy management system" on the trailer.

Steve77 · 02-08-2021, 03:37 PM

Well I called Winnebago, and the lady I spoke with took my VIN and confirmed I do have the emergency management system in the trailer and should be able to run both AC's on 30 amp service. She was going to send me a wiring diagram but I didn't receive it yet.

But, if it looks anything like the photos / video's I've been able to see online of Winnebago's energy management system it should be a prominent display inside. I do not see it anywhere. So I am thinking maybe they forgot to add it?

Rick 99037 · 02-15-2021, 08:26 AM

I our homes, in years past; we had fuses. They were unforgiving, and popped quickly when they exceeded their rating.
When circuit breakers replaced fuses, we gained a bit of forgiveness. Modest overloads slowly heated the breaker, and so they didn't trip right away. I suspect your breakers could, and have handled the startup amperage load that goes over 30 amps for a short period, but the 30 amp Watchdog just gives no such grace.
As to plugging into home power, my MH has a single AC. (That isn't quite enough for my 30 footer on a hot day,) I've found I can run it by itself, but if I set the fridge from gas to electric, it takes about 30 seconds to trip the house 15 amp breaker. If I run over and plug it into a 20 amp outlet I can do both. But don't forget other devices may be on the same house breaker, and so they to count for total amps drawn. I also have a Watchdog, but got it last fall, and haven't really used it camping yet. But with my single AC, I expect no problems with it kicking off.
Oh a warning note. Ohms law says reduced voltage increases amperage, so if you were in a campground where the local transformer pulled down due to heavy load, the voltage would go down, increasing amperage draw for the same load, and so tripping the Watchdog if it was close to the 30 amp mark.

Steve77 · 02-15-2021, 10:57 AM

Thanks everyone.

OK so I had a 30 amp receptacle installed in my driveway this morning, by an electrician.

When I plug trailer in, with Watchdog EPO running and monitoring on my phone, here is what i show:

With nothing on, the amp draw is half an amp.

With one AC steady on cooling its 15 amps. When I turn the other one on its 29.5 amps - and runs for a while but eventually goes over 30.5 amps and the watchdog shuts it down. That is with nothing else on, everything switched off. Just the two AC's.

Winnebago told me the AC's max amp draws should be 12.6 on the 13,500 and 12.9 on the 15,000. For a total of 25.5. That's not a lot of wiggle room but if those are the max amp draws I should be fine. Winnebago is insisting I should be able to run everything but the microwave all at once under 30 amps. I am betting they are figuring on the fridge and water heater being on gas when they say this, and thats fine...

The "energy management system" is apparently a transfer switch built into the breaker box that transfers power from the microwave to the AC if it needs it. Basically, it shuts the microwave off. Only the microwave apparently. That is the extent of the EMS.

So either A) they are incorrect in those being the max amp draws (and me being able to run everything on 30 amps), or B) both of my AC's are drawing more amps than they should, or C)my watchdog is wrong.

I have an appointment with the dealership, but I know its going to be a run around with them saying the AC's are fine, yada yada.

imnprsd · 02-20-2021, 02:30 AM

I had to google your model and came up with this: 2021 Winnebago Minnie 2301BHS. Is that right? ...I'm not familiar with your power grid, but since you are just about ready to go seek help from the dealer, maybe I can help?

How many ACs do you have? 1 or 2 ? What type?

Do you have an inverter and batteries?

Converter? If so unplug these items and then try to start your ACs.

Do you have a transfer switch? My guess is "no" since I don't see a generator listed in other Minnie's for sale.

That being the case, I would suggest you check your circuit panel for a lose neutral most likely, but it could be the black wire on the AC circuit breaker. ...You also need to check your grounds and be sure nothing is loose.

If you don't find one, then swap out your breaker with another one of the same value (if you have one) and see it it trips or holds. I.e., you need to confirm the breaker is okay.

IMO, you are looking for anything that would cause resistance to the current to your AC or out of your AC on the neutral return line.

Note: These screws are supposed to be torqued, but what you are looking for is any lug you can turn 1/4+. (DON'T GO LOOKING OR TURNING POWER SCREWS WITH THE POWER PLUGED IN!)

If you confirm all your circuits are normal, then maybe your AC start circuit needs a look see. You can search for more information on this. And you will find there are "Hard Start Kits" owners use to help start your AC compressor. ($15-$60 + labor.) You can also search on YouTube for what is involved with this upgrade.

People who have trouble starting their ACs with a small generator have to install a Soft Start Kit to optimize "in-rush" current so they don't trip a breaker, but this may be too much information for now. ($280-$350 + labor)

Morich · 02-20-2021, 08:06 AM

When you speak of everything else being off, it is easy to miss some small points that "may" still be drawing current. One of the major problems we hear about when storing RV is that the battery runs down---even when they have everything turned off. WRONG!

One possible clue is when you mention with nothing on there is a half amp draw? I think that is telling us that not everything is actually off and there may be things like CO2 or propane detectors, gas solenoids, etc. still drawing power. Anything like a microwave or radios with leds still live or presets to keep alive?

Those sneaky things we never need to look at are stealing power full time, even when we turn them off. One way to run up the electrical bill at home is to leave the cell phone charger plugged in! So easy to just grab the phone and go-- if we don't mind paying the bill for keeping the charger electronics alive.