Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-19-2021, 05:52 PM   #1
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
Trouble with steps on a 26HE

I have lost track of how many steps motors I have had to replace in my motorhome. They either start clicking when retracting or extending. We do not step on the steps until they finish moving.
Service people say it is just faulty motors. I suspect there is something wrong with the controller.
This las motor, I installed in the spring. I went to back the motorhome out of the Quonset building the other day. All you heard was the clacking sound. Open the door and the steps extended.
Any ideas??
rottenkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2021, 06:10 PM   #2
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 4,743
Really hard to be right on what's up just based on other description of noises, but why not give it a guess?
When I thing of a motor running an making a clacking noise, I jump to a bad gear, possibly nylon with one ore more teeth burred so that what you are hearing is the remaining gear tooth passing over the burred off one!

It may be that changing the motor has fixed it in the past due to putting a new gear on but then if it fails again that soon, maybe it is a second gear which is meeting and one messed up gear works on the new gear to ruin it after a year or so?

I might look at the linkage and any binding before going for another new motor. If there is repeated clacking, it seems the motor is still running!
__________________
Richard
Morich is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2021, 03:21 AM   #3
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
I should have been more specific, I replaced the entire unit. The gears are not available. That would be too easy to replace the gears. These companies make it so you have to spend big bucks. I carry a spare part with me. I have been lucky that it has happened near home. We only have 35,000 miles on the motorhome. Most people think it is new when we pull into a campground, because it is so clean.
rottenkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2021, 07:28 AM   #4
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 4,743
Okay, different idea and that pretty much leaves bad luck or alignment or simple something binding on the steps, so maybe check for free movement if you can spot anything of that sort as they should last better than that---but life should be simple but it's not at times!
__________________
Richard
Morich is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2021, 06:04 PM   #5
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
You can move them with one finger. Nothing binding.
rottenkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2021, 07:04 PM   #6
Winnebago Camper
 
Dan_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Otsego, MN
Posts: 11
Just had the same issue. Had RV in for body work ( hit a deer). When service manager picked it up, said step motor was bad and had mechanic replace it. He neglected to put the pin in the bottom of the drive gear that inserts into the gear box and keeps the gears engaged. After a few cycles it falls out of solid connection with the driven gear and it grinds and skips. After watching videos on u tube, I thought the gear was stripped and ordered a new gear box. Discovered the missing pin. New gearbox came with new drive gear and pin. Installed new gearbox anyway. All good now.
Good luck.
Dan_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 10:26 PM   #7
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,520
Sometimes when the controller is not getting a good enough connection it will not read high amperage soon enough to shut down the motor in time putting additional stress on the three sacrificial blocks between the hub and ring of the main plastic gear so that they disintegrate instead of destroying the gear. I just use some 3/8 inch ID lawn sprinkler plastic tubing with a piece of 3/8 inch rubber rod/dowel inserted in the middle to replace them and everything then works as it should. They are just round rubber/plastic rollers or perhaps dowels for lack of a better word and are just there to absorb shock and help prevent the plastic gear from stripping. They are about 9/16 inch in diameter and around 7/16 inch thick.

Someone posted a while back the model number of the power window motor you can buy at most automotive parts stores to replace the step motor for less than most RV suppliers sell the repackaged motor for.


Its very similar to this though I'm not certain if this $15 Dorman replacement gear for Fords is the one that matches 100%:

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-747-41...13619742&psc=1


The gear with the three shock absorbers can be had without the hub for around $10:
https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-747-40...031H0H5M&psc=1
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
NeilV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2021, 06:42 PM   #8
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
Great information, thanks. Now I need to figure out what year automotive motor fits my steps. I would rather pay $50 and not the $250 for the step motor I need. They are expensive in Canada, like everything else here.
rottenkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2021, 06:55 PM   #9
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
Picture

This is the motor I need, if anyone knows the correct year of automotive replace, then Thanks
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1633654950
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	4984887A-B48E-414D-BBB3-A4C99FB1E302.jpeg
Views:	26
Size:	78.6 KB
ID:	181041  
rottenkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2022, 06:11 PM   #10
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
Repaired on of my step gears. Works OK. Cheaper fix.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	01081582 1.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	247.4 KB
ID:	181793   Click image for larger version

Name:	01121583.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	197.4 KB
ID:	181794  

Click image for larger version

Name:	01121584.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	191.1 KB
ID:	181795   Click image for larger version

Name:	01121585.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	226.7 KB
ID:	181796  

rottenkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2022, 12:52 PM   #11
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 17
I've had the dreaded step problem. Started on the return leg of our last trip.
Steps would fully extend, but motor would not turn off, just keep skipping on the Nylon gear until the controller timed out. So 5 or 6 seconds of loud banging when the steps extend. NO problem with retraction.

Kwikee Revolution steps. So, bad motor/gear box..

Ordered a replacement from Amazon for $60, installed it and it worked great...

For about 10 cycles of opening and closing the door, then back to the skipping on extending the steps.

So I returned that motor and had them send a warranty replacement. That one didn't work out of the gate. Same issue on extending the steps. The motor doesn't turn off and gear skips until the controller times out.

Talked with Lippert, they said maybe the controller was bad, so I ordered a new controller and installed it. Also cleaned the areas where the ground wires connect for good measure.

No go, still have the issue. It is only when the steps extend that the controller doesn't turn off the motor when it first hits the full extension. Retraction works fine.

Have lubed the steps, and with the motor out they move freely.

So just in case ordered an OEM motor from Lippert. But same issue.

Talked with our local RV shop and they say that they often have to go though multiple motors to get one that works, and then some people have to replace the motor every year or so while others may go for 5 years or more.

In talking with Lippert they indicated that they have a hard coded current draw that they look for to turn off the motor. The problem in this case is that the gear skips so the motor never hits that current threshold.

My understanding is that in the automotive use of the power window motor/gearbox that the controller in that case monitors the current and looks for a percentage increase in current instead of a hard coded limit to detect when it should turn off the motor (or reverse travel).

Note I checked two of the failing motors and the Nylon gear was NOT stripped.

I have a theory on what is happening, but have not fully verified this.

The theory is that the way the Nylon gear is formed that if there is enough tolerance variants that when the worm gear is turning in the direction to drive the steps out that it is possible for the Nylon gear to skip.

Then when the worm gear turns in the opposite direction to retract the steps the issue doesn't happen.

At least that is how it is working in my case with a total of 4 different motors.

Here's how I fixed it:

I designed a secondary controller that uses a limit switch to detect when the steps are fully extended. When that sensor is tripped my controller removes power from the drive motor. I grab 12V power from the +12V motor lead (when the steps are extending) provided by the original controller.

Since my secondary controller is only powered when the steps are extending there's to battery drain when idle. And when my controller is not active the original controller works normally when retracting the steps.

I'm using a magnetic sensor for detecting the steps are fully out. If I need to handle a similar issue with the retraction I will update the design to accommodate that.

There is an added benefit to this update in that the chance of the Nylon gear getting chewed up is significantly reduced since I immediately turn off the motor when the steps are out and locked.

And since the operation of the original controller is not changed it should still react to any issue with the steps hitting an object while extended (assuming that the Nylon gear doesn't skip of course).

We will be road testing this on an extended trip next month, but it seems to be a solid fix, at least in my case.
burt6274 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2022, 02:56 AM   #12
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
Thanks for your solution. I wondered why automotive windows do not have the same problem. The same step motor was used on certain Ford products. Do you have pictures to post of your solution?
rottenkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2022, 11:53 AM   #13
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 17
I'm working on a set of photos, but want to finish the first road test.

I designed the controller so that everything pretty much plugs in so you don't need to cut any existing wires for the motor. That was done with a short extension cable that plugs in between the motor and the existing controller. Then off that extension I grab +12V from the line that is hot when the motor drives the steps out. That +12V powers my controller, which includes a high current relay.

The relay has it's normally closed contacts connected in that +12V line so that when my controller is off the motor receives 12V power as usual. Then when my controller is powered up it's waiting for the steps out sensor to trigger. Once that happens the relay energizes and that kills the power to the motor.

The original controller times out (about 10 seconds from when the steps start to extend, and that removes power from my controller (and of course the motor).. When the steps retract of course the +12V line is now ground so my controller never powers up and the relay stays de-energized providing power to the motor.

I plan on doing a full write up with photos, etc. If there was enough interest I might also put together a kit including a PCB.

I'm also going to do some more testing with my old Lippert controller and my original motor to verify my theory on what is happening in the failure case.

Of course there can be other failures such as actual motor failures (bad brushes, etc.) and actual wear on the Nylon gear and this solution won't address those.
burt6274 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2022, 02:50 PM   #14
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 17
To rottenkid just wanted to say thanks for the reply.

After wrestling with this problem with 4 motors (plus I forgot to mention that I replaced the Nylon gear in the original motor for good measure, so that's like 5 new motors) I was getting pretty frustrated until I spoke with our local RV repair shop.

So then I decided that I would engineer a better solution. So we'll see if things hold up over the next few weeks of travel including a long trip down to Gulf Shores.

Thanks again for the reply.

Burt
burt6274 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2022, 07:57 AM   #15
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 17
Adding a couple of photos of the prototype step fix controller.
Hopefully these will all be viewable since this is the first time I've tried linking photos from my secure cloud, if not then I'll have to do an alternate way to show them

First is a picture of milling the printed circuit board for the prototype:


Next is the PCB after finished milling and drilling but before being cut out.


This on is the prototype packaged before installation:


This one is the prototype controller installed in the battery compartment. The fiberglass insulation was a temporary solution to keep the connectors from rattling against objects in the compartment.


And the final shot is of the sensor I added to tell my controller when the steps are fully extended:


More details later next month after we have road tested the prototype.
burt6274 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2022, 08:32 AM   #16
Site Team
 
creativepart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spring Branch, TX
Posts: 5,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by burt6274 View Post
Adding a couple of photos of the prototype step fix controller.
Hopefully these will all be viewable since this is the first time I've tried linking photos from my secure cloud, if not then I'll have to do an alternate way to show them
You must use a public photo host to embed images. It would be much much better to attach your photos directly to your post rather than keep them on some other photo host.
__________________
2017 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2016 Lincoln MKX Toad
creativepart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2022, 03:02 PM   #17
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 17
Thanks, I didn't see an option to embed the photos, other than a link to where they reside. I'll see where else I could upload them to that would work when I get a chance.
burt6274 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2022, 05:43 PM   #18
Site Team
 
creativepart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spring Branch, TX
Posts: 5,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by burt6274 View Post
Thanks, I didn't see an option to embed the photos, other than a link to where they reside. I'll see where else I could upload them to that would work when I get a chance.
The instructions are in the Forum Admin/News/Member Concerns forum.

Here there are for you:

How to add photos to a post

The photo should reside on your computer, tablet or phone. If you have a photo at Google or Dropbox or similar cloud location download it (Right click Save Photo As) to your computer, tablet or phone FIRST.

Here's how to post a photo inside an existing thread that you are replying to:

Click scroll down to bottom of a thread to the Quick Reply editor box.
  • At the bottom of the Quick Reply box, click "go advanced" and then scroll down.
  • Click "Manage attachments" A separate window will pop up.
  • Click "browse" Then select the file to be uploaded from your computer, tablet or phone's photo gallery. You may select several photos to upload at the same time by repeating the last step.
  • Click "Upload" After pics have loaded close the pop-up window
  • Click "submit reply" to mount the text of your message - photos will automatically appear at the bottom of your post.

IF you are starting a new thread then you can skip the whole "Go Advanced" instruction because when starting a new thread you are already in the Advanced Editor. So, in this case you just scroll down to the "Manage Attachments" button in the Advanced Editor.

How to embed an image stored on another site:

NOTE: Google Photos is not an acceptable image host to embed photos from. The photo will show up for you but not for other people.

You can do this by using image tags. Upload the image to a service like imageshack and then copy the URL of the image and put that between [IMG] tags. That will work well, as long as the host site stays in business and doesn't disable your image for overuse of bandwidth etc. Please note that Photobucket images are not allowed and you will recieve an error message if you try to embed one of these images.

You can also paste in the location of a photo stored here in a photo gallery.

To do this: Paste the url of the image into your post. Then add the following code on either side of the url (with no extra spaces):

[IMG]url here[/IMG]

The image will appear where the url was in your text.
__________________
2017 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2016 Lincoln MKX Toad
creativepart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2022, 07:36 AM   #19
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 17
Been tied up on a bunch of other projects, so just getting back here. Going to try to add the photos in per the instructions.

Milling the PCB for the prototype.
The prototype before mounting in the motor home.
The prototype mounted in the battery compartment.
The sensor added to detect when the steps are fully extended and locked.

Note: The fiberglass insulation was just there to prevent the connectors hitting anything in the battery box and making noise. I've since dressed the added cables to resolve that issue.

We'll be road testing this on a long trip in a couple of weeks.

In addition to the electronics I 3D printed a mounting plate and bracket to allow mounting the actual reed switch sensor. The mounting plate and bracket can be adjusted to align the sensor with the magnet added to the step arm.

This arrangement works quite well, and relieves the strain on the Nylon gear when the steps are fully extended. In the worst case if there is a failure with the added controller , say the sensor gets out of alignment, the steps revert to the normal mode where it relies on the stall current to turn off the motor power (or the Lippert controller times out).

In the absolute worst case if the sensor were to falsely report the steps being extended that would turn off the motor power before the steps extend. While unlikely that is something I'll work on detecting and handling on the next iteration of the prototype.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MillProto030622.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	109.5 KB
ID:	182402   Click image for larger version

Name:	PrototypeStepFixSensor.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	88.7 KB
ID:	182403  

Click image for larger version

Name:	PrototypeStepFix_030522.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	86.7 KB
ID:	182404   Click image for larger version

Name:	PrototypeStepFix2_030722.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	118.4 KB
ID:	182405  

burt6274 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
steps


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2013 Winnebago Vista 26HE question Draco_M Winnebago Class A Motorhomes 168 08-05-2020 08:35 PM
Door latch on Vista 26HE rottenkid Winnebago Class A Motorhomes 8 09-08-2014 02:32 PM
Black Tank smell in 2013 Sunstar 26HE Rossi6998 Winnebago Class A Motorhomes 19 08-16-2014 11:07 AM
1st MH.. Vista 26HE or Minnie Winnie 25B mdo Winnebago Class B Motorhomes 10 06-01-2014 05:10 PM
Slideout Room Controller on a 26HE Oldtrooper General Maintenance and Repair 12 10-14-2013 07:36 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Winnebago Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×