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Old 01-09-2022, 03:12 PM   #1
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Weight confusion

So we are looking at a couple of models (Winn 2301BHS, 2306BHS, and GD 2400BH) and their specs. 2306 is likely out (too lil storage) and we are leaning towards 2301. Confusing how the two 30' TT have such differing tongue weights. I also suspect the 2301 will be more than spec'd as it has a second AC in bdrm. I have read and read and read. We went and weighed truck today with full tank, wife, kids, dogs, and just a bag tools/straps/jumper cables/etc in bed.

Truck: 2020 F150, 145WB, 3.5eco, 3.55diff. Have max tow pkg and 7000# gvwr pkg. I have added level kit and 33" tires that have a load/speed rating of 114Q and Load ID of E (10ply).

Looking at CAT weights, I'm 100# to max on front with 1100# on rear. Looks good till I look at total of 6440#. It's also confusing to say I have 7000GVWR but when you add the two axle max's, it's greater. To look at these #s, I shouldn't tow much of anything??

Looking for some "real world" experience with these units. Reading the Winn FB page most people seem to have no issues pulling the 2301 with the eco and 3.55
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Old 01-09-2022, 04:33 PM   #2
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You summarized the situation well. The GVWR on the truck is normally the limit people hit first. It seems very odd to have a huge truck with such limited legal capabilities, but that is definitely the norm. You’re doing it right... researching first. Lots of people don’t find out until after the trailer is purchased.
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Old 01-09-2022, 05:43 PM   #3
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I'm no expert but I think you're missing some numbers, especially the GCWR. The GVWR limit will have to do with cargo, people, etc. plus tongue weight. The tongue weight can be managed to a point with a good weight distributing hitch. The GCWR is the maximum combined loaded weight of the trailer and truck.

I found the following online which may help you sort things out but we're missing some information. We know your WB but is it 2wd or 4wd, Super Cab or Super Crew? I think I'd also want to recheck your axle weights at another weigh station, they don't seem consistent with the Ford document below, even allowing extra weight for your wife, kids and dogs and stuff (unless you have a lot of kids and very big dogs). You might want to try weighing it with just you on board.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...F150_Oct15.pdf

Since the above comes from Ford, the max trailer weight is going to be calculated optimistically with no payload other than a 150# driver, fuel and a 10% tongue weight. Here's another helpful link:

https://www.ntea.com/NTEA/Member_ben...k_trucks1.aspx
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Old 01-09-2022, 06:32 PM   #4
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I'm no expert but I think you're missing some numbers, especially the GCWR... but we're missing some information. We know your WB but is it 2wd or 4wd, Super Cab or Super Crew?

I think I'd also want to recheck your axle weights at another weigh station, they don't seem consistent with the Ford document below, even allowing extra weight for your wife, kids and dogs and stuff (unless you have a lot of kids and very big dogs). You might want to try weighing it with just you on board.
Sorry... I meant to add that. 4x4 and Supercrew. Based off that and whichever combined you look at for that category the tow capacity is 9.3, 10.5, or 12.5. The 3106 is 8.8 loaded so that aspect is good. It's tongue weight I'm concerned about as it applies to max payload.

The additional weight I think has to do with the tires. The 10ply tires I have on it are 69# each so that's accounting for roughly 280# of that total weight.

This was easy back when I had the F350DRW and a fiver. It was overkill for us and back when we had it we didn't get to go much. We realized how much we missed it and now we have more time but didn't want to go large.
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Old 01-09-2022, 06:40 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by backtrack15 View Post
It seems very odd to have a huge truck with such limited legal capabilities, but that is definitely the norm.
And that seems nuts to me. I "thought" I had done all the right homework BEFORE I bought the truck. I knew I do some towing (utility trailer/kubota UTV) and didn't want to screw myself when going to the half ton when I got rid of the F350DRW. Hence the max tow pkg. I guess I shoulda made sure it had max payload too which oddly... takes you to the 3.73diff. I thought diff has to do with pulling so...
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Old 01-09-2022, 07:09 PM   #6
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Ford dealers just don’t seem to order trucks with the max payload package. Those are almost always custom orders. Yours is better than most. I look at those payload stickers whenever I visit a dealer. Most 1/2-ton crew cabs are running with 1200 lbs of payload capacity. Four people in the cab can easily use half of that. Put a few things in the bed and you’re left with 300 lbs for the tongue load. That’s a sub-3000 lb trailer. It’s pretty discouraging.
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Old 01-10-2022, 08:30 AM   #7
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You should have no issue towing with that truck. That's a perfect truck for that size trailer. Just take the time to get whatever Weight Dist Hitch you buy dialed in. It's going to take several trips to the CAT to get dialed in with your normal load when towing but once you do you'll be glad you took the time to do it.

Remember to do the 3-pass method, 1st pass wtih WDH hooked up, 2nd pass with it unhooked, and 3rd with just the truck like you already did. By doing this you will see the effect of the WDH on your axles of the truck and trailer and can adjust accordingly to transfer weight in whatever direction you need.
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Old 01-10-2022, 10:07 AM   #8
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The 2301 has GVWR of 8800lbs. So, tongue is likely to be very close to 1100lbs wet. My wet tongue (not frenching ) comes in at exactly 12% of tt GVWR. Biggest concern for me was not tv GVWR, but rear GAWR. However, my WDH moves about 200lbs from rear axle to front axle, so I weigh in at just under rear GAWR and under GVWR as well.. you can juggle these numbers around a bit depending on how you set up your WDH. But, if you have the dealership install the hitch, you wonít know for sure until you weigh in, which is ok as long as you have or torque wrench to change the WDH setup on your own. Canít be sure, but it seems to me that you can tow the 2301 and be compliant.

One other thing, I found that dry tongue spec is not really close to actual dry tongue. Found that out after picking up new 2108ds and heading straight to the scales. You should ask the dealer to weigh the tongue with full propane and batteries before you take the next step.
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Old 01-10-2022, 12:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Fasttimes View Post
You should have no issue towing with that truck. That's a perfect truck for that size trailer. Just take the time to get whatever Weight Dist Hitch you buy dialed in. It's going to take several trips to the CAT to get dialed in with your normal load when towing but once you do you'll be glad you took the time to do it.

Remember to do the 3-pass method, 1st pass wtih WDH hooked up, 2nd pass with it unhooked, and 3rd with just the truck like you already did. By doing this you will see the effect of the WDH on your axles of the truck and trailer and can adjust accordingly to transfer weight in whatever direction you need.

Lol, silly me to think that the 2301BH was actually a 23' length trailer. Now that I see the specs online, yikes, that's a big trailer for the F150. You'll be right at the limit. Dry weight of 6148 and a hitch weight of 684. You'll have to pack smartly and not overlaod the front storage. Try to keep hitch weight around 800 or less.
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Old 01-16-2022, 08:28 PM   #10
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Here is what's killing you. You have a little over 1500 lbs available cargo weight on your truck. After you deduct the trailer tongue weight (should be around 12% of the loaded trailer weight) and the weight of the WDH there isn't much left for you, your family, dog and cargo.
Contrary to what some will tell you, the WDH will not reduce tongue weight.

Another thing which, in my opinion, makes your truck less suitable for towing is the lift and big tires.

Some tow ratings (not only Ford) are unrealistic when choosing a travel trailer. Those ratings might be OK with a cargo trailer that has a relatively low center of gravity and isn't like a big sail in the wind.
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrown.tx View Post
......
Truck: 2020 F150, 145WB, 3.5eco, 3.55diff. Have max tow pkg and 7000# gvwr pkg. I have added level kit and 33" tires that have a load/speed rating of 114Q and Load ID of E (10ply).

Looking at CAT weights, I'm 100# to max on front with 1100# on rear. Looks good till I look at total of 6440#. It's also confusing to say I have 7000GVWR but when you add the two axle max's, it's greater. To look at these #s, I shouldn't tow much of anything?? ....
What Trim Level is your F150?? The Yellow remaining payload stick is based on 'as built'. More Options results in less payload left.

I have a 2019 F150 XLT, 3.5 ecoboost, 4x4 Supercrew, 6.5 bed, 3.31 rear, 157"wb, and my 'as built' pay load is #1810.
Cat Scale my truck only with 2 people, 36 gal of fuel and some bins of travel items is #5900 (Front #3380, Rear #2520)
I have to assume your lower as built payload (1540) is due to your truck is a higher trim level with more options. And any accessories you've added takes away from the #1540.
I Tow a TT (SOB) that Scales at #5540 on trailer axles and #940 tongue weight (#6480 total) and my F150 handles it easily. When Hitched, ready for travel my Truck comes in at #6840 (my GVWR is #7050) Ft axle #3220, R Axle #3520.
-Russ
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Old 01-17-2022, 07:23 AM   #12
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A WDH is not designed to reduce tongue weight. It’s is designed to shift a portion of that weight from the rear axle to the front axle. It does this by simulating your tv and tt have a single frame by essentially adding frame members to stiffen the junction between the two. My WDH effectively shifts about 200 lbs to the front axle of my tv. Without it, I would be overweight on Rear GAWR. However, it does nothing to change tv GVWR. So you still have to be mindful to stay below that. I disagree with prior posters that your tv is unsuitable for the 2301, but even with a good WDH, it will be right on the edge of its limits depending on how you load the bed of the truck. Only you can decide if it’s close enough to make you uncomfortable.
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:06 AM   #13
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I did a lot of research early on to select a truck that was suitable for different trailers. We have four people in the family, with the two kids being G12 and B15. I came to the conclusion that I really needed a 3/4 ton truck for travel trailers ~30 feet. I needed a 1-ton SRW for fifth-wheels with a ~2000# pin weight and a dually for anything bigger. It seemed a properly optioned F150 would work very well for most trailers 25 ft and shorter.
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Old 01-18-2022, 07:45 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by backtrack15 View Post
I did a lot of research early on to select a truck that was suitable for different trailers. We have four people in the family, with the two kids being G12 and B15. I came to the conclusion that I really needed a 3/4 ton truck for travel trailers ~30 feet. I needed a 1-ton SRW for fifth-wheels with a ~2000# pin weight and a dually for anything bigger. It seemed a properly optioned F150 would work very well for most trailers 25 ft and shorter.
This checks out. I have a 2022 F-150 Lariat on order (crew cab, 4x4, 2.7 eco). Max payload is 1,760lb. I would say the largest trailer I'd want/be able to legally pull is my 2100BH.

Curb weight: 4,838
GVWR: 6,600
GCWR: 12,900
Payload: 1,760
Towing Capacity: 7,700

Estimated Payload ~900 (4 people and a very liberal amount of gear estimate, as well as full fuel) + 500lb tongue = 1,450lb. Leaves me about 310 lb of payload.

GVWR on my 2100BH is 5,500 lb so the towing capacity isn't a problem, but the payload can be a limiting factor.
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Old 01-19-2022, 06:37 AM   #15
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This checks out. I have a 2022 F-150 Lariat on order (crew cab, 4x4, 2.7 eco). Max payload is 1,760lb. I would say the largest trailer I'd want/be able to legally pull is my 2100BH.

GVWR on my 2100BH is 5,500 lb so the towing capacity isn't a problem, but the payload can be a limiting factor.
I dunno,
Youíve got a good amount of reserve capacity with that rig, which is excellent. But I tow my 2108ds comfortably with only 1,340lb payload. Near the limit? Yes, but mid-size pickups can do the job safely.
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Old 01-19-2022, 07:00 AM   #16
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I dunno,
Youíve got a good amount of reserve capacity with that rig, which is excellent. But I tow my 2108ds comfortably with only 1,340lb payload. Near the limit? Yes, but mid-size pickups can do the job safely.
They absolutely can, especially if youíre single or a couple. They just would not work for me with my family of four.
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Old 01-19-2022, 07:19 AM   #17
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They absolutely can, especially if youíre single or a couple. They just would not work for me with my family of four.
So right. Especially with a 200lb dog on board.
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Old 01-19-2022, 07:31 AM   #18
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So right. Especially with a 200lb dog on board.
Sheís 52 lbs and Iíll do you a favor and not mention your post to her.
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