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Old 12-17-2022, 11:36 AM   #1
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Join Date: Dec 2022
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2016 Winnie Drop 1780 Exterior Panel Separation

Hoping someone can suggest a fix for my camper. As seen in photos, the rear exterior panel has come out from under the right angle trim piece at the bottom of the camper. I can get a few fingers in this opening and can't feel or see any structure to glue or attach the panel back where it should be. The last photo is looking up from the ground into the opening. There is no evidence of leakage from the rear window and it's dry behind the panel - at least where I can feel. I've tried tucking the panel back under the trim piece, but it almost seems like the panel has moved upwards and there's very little overlap. Any help is appreciated.


Thanks, Dave
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Old 12-17-2022, 02:24 PM   #2
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I have almost the same unit. The slack happens because the panels do expand and contract unfortunately. You will find that the surface of the trailer will seem to move up and down and not be perfectly flat. If the bump at the point is along the seam to the floor as it appears to be where the trailer sides connect to the plywood then that connection is sealed usually with some form of caulking.
The amount that the outer wall panel has moved is considerable it seems in your situation. I would try using a very high grade flexible caulking that can be built up to seal the gap definitely not use screws through the outer wall to try to screw it down.

We have a small gap that I resealed along the side and it seems fine. I would also check inside the rear pass through which has the outer wall coming down to the floor and should be visible to see if there is a gap there as well.
As long as the gap does not get bigger it should not pose a problem IMO.

If the outer plastic shell is delaminating from the insulation layer as it appears then I would ask what material can be used to fill the gap and adhere to both surfaces and keep the gap from getting bigger most likely the same gap filling type of glue used to adhere bath polystyrene walls in construction. PL 400 I believe but it is better to check online to find out what material is best suited and will not dissolve the surfaces you need to re adhere and fill.
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Old 12-17-2022, 02:50 PM   #3
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Thanks for the response. The outer panel seems to be separating from a thin piece of luan-like material. I will look into a suitable adhesive to deal with that and a caulk to seal the panel/trim joint from the weather.
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Old 12-17-2022, 04:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashman View Post
Thanks for the response. The outer panel seems to be separating from a thin piece of luan-like material. I will look into a suitable adhesive to deal with that and a caulk to seal the panel/trim joint from the weather.
RV high grade clear silicone works to adhere the panel to the plastic channel that it is the bottom attachment. The panel is edged to accept the channel which is attached to the trailer frame. It is tricky to get the panel edge back into the channel. So high strength temporary tape is best to hold the panel and the channel together while the glue welds the panel back down to the inner surface. Then a thin layer of RV grade silicone can be applied to the outer joint.
The factory done joints do come apart because of flexing of the outer shell over time and the repair necessary is not that difficult. That is why a flexible RV silicone is needed and it will over time need maintenance and replacement of the thin layers, especially around the top joints and the windows. If checked every season and kept up the trailer will be excellent I find. Same as maintaining the seal rubbers on the slide out with the right silicone rubber spray and the slide-out rail gears and gear bars with a white silicone grease spray after cleaning.
We check the slide-out gears regularly and maintain it diligently and have had no problems, others that ignore this crucial maintenance item have issues with the slide-out leaking or worse binding and requiring difficult and expensive repairs.

One funny little thing that happened was when our grand daughter left a doll on the bed and it got into the space between the slide out and the trailer wall. The doll suffered a horrible fate but fortunately the slide out motor sensed the heavier load and did not burn out a gear. The lesson was to always check for obstructions when sliding both in and out!

All the best repairing and properly maintaining these units is not that bad it is far better doing it yourself than having a dealer do it especially in Canada to say the least. They all want you to trade it in so they can make big bucks by reselling them at more than what they cost new in the case of this size trailer. Crazy but this size and design of travel trailer has gone absolutely stupid in price in the last 3 years so it is well worth doing the detail work to keep them up to snuff, which in our case included changing the low spec lippert axle which bent and redoing messed up factory running gear wiring.
Ours is one of the first 1780s imported into Canada and it had some shoddy work done.
We also had new blind valances made because the old ones were far too heavy and fell off going down the road. Which was a bit of a joke and a PITA but with decent repair they are now far better than new.
We also changed over to a sprung axle setup with far better tire clearance and a much better 5000 lb rated cross bar than the one that came from the factory.
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Old 12-18-2022, 08:24 AM   #5
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Campers do seem to provide an endless source of things to do. Our Winnie is much better built than our prior camper, which had a rubber roof that liked to leak. A few things on the Winnie have worn out, but nothing significant has broken. I did install a 4 inch lift for the body - which solved our tire and ground clearance issues.
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Old 12-18-2022, 09:39 PM   #6
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Exclamation

We also installed the factory 3 1/2 inch lift kit from E-Trailer and unfortunately the axle had already started bend excessively on the slide out side before we bought the trailer used 4 years ago. Before the lift kit it was impossible to even get on a ferry here in BC without having the trailer hang up on the ramp! I had to carry a 6 inch drop hitch and change out from level just to park it up our drive way or get it on and off a ferry or into some camp sites it was that ridiculously low from the factory.

When we bought it we knew about the tear drop axle bend issues because we could have bought an RPod that need an axle change for far less money but side walls and windows were not in very good shape as the owners had not paid attention to the details and had given up trying to get the axle changed by Forest River Inc. When we bought our 1780 Winnie Drop we did get it fairly cheap and knowing about the lippert axle issues were prepared to replace the axle eventually. But the need to change came sooner than we had hoped. So last season there was nothing for it but to change the cross bar out to a more robust one in our situation. As you can see in the picture below the axle change became an absolutely necessary upgrade and it was rubbing on the slide out side even before the lift kit was applied. When we changed the axle out there was not even room to get a finger in between the side wall of the tire and the side wall of the trailer and it rubbed if twisted by torque on the side walls even with skinny 205 8 ply st tires of the same width as the cheap load range C trailer king branded ones from the factory.

Now we have the clearance to put on even wider profile tires than the stock 205s that came with the trailer. We did not put on 6 bolt 12 inch drums as some have done in the same situation however. But at least we now have the option to change to even higher 225 wide 8 ply st tires if we choose to do so. The trailer came with 205 14" load range c which as it turns out are not rated to take the full gross weight rating. So for safety reasons we put on 205 14" load range D tires which did not cause issues as they rubbed on the side walls going around corners until the axle bent slightly more a year and a half later.
Changing out the axle does not change the ratings on the trailer because that rating is based upon the hitch rating and the certification so changing to a heavier cross bar does not increase the way we load the trailer or expect to drive it down the road.

If we had left the load range C stock tires on or changed to new ones the lower side wall rating might very well have caused the tires to fail going down the road. Putting the lift on helped for a while but only one and a half seasons until the axle bend became too serious and caused the tire on the slide out side to rub going around corners or especially over driver side slanted spots on roads to camp sites.

If you start to have less than a full one inch clearance between the side wall of the tire and the fiberglass wall of the trailer I strongly suggest that you check the axle for bend and negative camber especially on the slide out side. If side wall rubbing happens at all then change the axle to achieve better clearance and load safety margins. This problem is a serious oversight and needs to be inspected regularly as the axle ages even under normal usage. The lippert 3500lb diamond shaped torsion axle with over 11 inches of space from the axle connection to the center of the tire is not adequate for the application over time and will bend far too easily. However changing it out is well worth expense plus the change out is a correction of what can become a very serious safety issue with tear drop trailers that are gross rated at over the axle rating.

Forest River's Rpods of the same design and axle rating spec were just as bad and have caused exactly the same issues as did other brands of the same weight with only a 3500 lb single axle this issue is industry wide. It is not caused by people "overloading" their units it is caused by having an inadequate safety margin on a cross member load that overhangs the trailer frame connection. The 11 plus inch distance between the center of the tire and the frame connection overloads the cross bar beyond the rating and over time causes the cross bar to bend especially on the kitchen and appliance side which is over 200 lbs heavier than the passenger side of the trailer. It is a design fault that is easily corrected on these trailers. Some Rpod owners have had their axle replaced several times before they realized that it is necessary to use a higher rated cross bar with that much overhang past the trailer frame to the tire.

I am tempted to buy another 1780 or similar RPod, fix the axle problem and flip it for big bucks because that is what the dealerships do when someone asks them about why their axle bent and decides that the small amount that the dealer offers them on a trade in is a good deal! The difference is they just order up another cheap 3500 lb axle and put it on to hide the fault from the new owners if the old owner does not have kittens and put in a written complaint with transport Canada(here in Canada that is) As it is we could easily sell ours right now for more than we have spent on the trailer and be selling a safer trailer than when it came off the dealer lot in Oregon in 2017!
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Old 12-19-2022, 01:07 PM   #7
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That's very interesting as we have tire rubs on both sides and very small clearances. The trailer is on jack stands for the winter, so while the axle does not appear to be bent, there's currently no load on the tires. What did you pay for the axle swap, ballpark, if you don't mind saying?
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Old 12-19-2022, 06:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashman View Post
That's very interesting as we have tire rubs on both sides and very small clearances. The trailer is on jack stands for the winter, so while the axle does not appear to be bent, there's currently no load on the tires. What did you pay for the axle swap, ballpark, if you don't mind saying?
about 2000 US or 2700 Canadian. But we also changed the entire system with new brakes, drums, bearings. The works. We had considered having a new torsion axle made, but with the manufacturing lead times and having to special order it we opted to change to a sprung axle instead with a much heavier cross tube and re-enforcement of the mount system by welding on a new attachment system. So the costs were just slightly over 3000 Canadian all in.

We used the best trailer shop here in Victoria that have had good experience and knew all about the problems with low spec factory single axles as they have done a fair numbers of replacement jobs on these trailers over the years for reasons of bend in the cross member.

The tires now have plenty of clearance to the side walls of the trailer and are much easier to repair if problems occur in the future.

Others on this site have had their single axle upgraded to a heavier cross member and over the years. This thread explains how to get a custom made higher load rated one from the Dexter corporation and the steps necessary to size it correctly and get new spacing brackets to make the axle align correctly Torsion axle upgrade process explanation.
This is a link to the manufacturers product necessary it is the 4100 to 6000 lb axle that is the best choice and will require a change from the stock 5 bolt pattern 10 inch brake drum to the 12 inch 6 bolt which also means a change in tire size.
We had an axle built a heavier cross bar but the same ten inch 5 bolt brake drums so we did not need to change out our wheel size but we could still change to 15 inch 5 bolt wheels in future when the tires need changing.

There is an added benefit if you do change over to 12 inch six bolts and that is the bigger brake drum and shoe size which will give longer brake shoe life and greater stopping power to the trailer brakes but the cost of the change over increases if you go for the larger drum size.

Our solution required beefing up frame so we spent on that aspect to make certain that the frame to axle connection outer distance was slightly wider thus giving more strength to the tube overhang to the tire with a shorter length of pipe from the trailer frame connection to the brake drum as well as having a new 5000 lb rated cross tube with the proper camber. Now the springs give the extra lift instead of a lift kit.
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Old 12-21-2022, 08:01 AM   #9
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Thanks for the information. This gives me something to do over the winter
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