Towing with Via/Reyo

[bigb]

We just returned from a 1500 mile trip towing my 3,700 lb Jeep TJ with our 2011 Via (Sprinter chassis). I know a lot of people tow Jeeps with these, and others tow lighter 2300 or less lb cars like Chevy Sparks, Fiat 500s, Nissan Versas and Smart cars.
On the flats we had no problems but climbing some of the long grades we were down to 30-40 and on some 7-8% grades when a passing lane was available I slowed to 20-25 to let the oil cool down. Coolant never went above 228F and came down quickly, transmission never went over 205F and usually stayed around 183F (I added a transmission cooler before the trip) but the engine oil went to 260F and a couple of times to 267F. The Sprinter runs high oil temps anyway and most people don't know it because they don't monitor it, and only the newer VS30 Sprinter has a dash gauge showing oil temps and it is not a true gauge anyway. We never once ran the dash air instead running the coach air and generator.
Coming down the steep grades with my NSA Ready Brute with the Ready Brake I was not too pleased. I don't think the Ready Brake is ideal for a motorhome that has marginal braking at best (no engine/exhaust brake available for Sprinter) towing a vehicle that weighs a third of what the motorhome weighs in the mountainous West, which is where 100% of our travels are. Coming into the Salt River Canyon the front pads got hot enough to set the alarms on the TPMS and I'm sure they were smoking, and we could smell them. I was going as slow as I dared and near the bottom I had to brake down to under 10 MPH for a flatbed moving a D-9 with a line of cars behind it. To make the surge brake activate it requires quite a hard braking action even though I had the sling cable as tight as I dared with barely 2" of slack.
Need to make some decisions now, first of all I will probably consider a different braking system. I can still use the Ready Brute tow bar without the Ready Brake by just replacing the brake part with a $89 part.
Secondly I may consider a toad in the 2300 lb range, or perhaps go back to no toad at all and just rent one at the destination.
I really love the Jeep and I spent a lot of money on it, it has less than 12,000 miles on a new engine, transmission, clutch and cooling system and it looks like new inside and out although it is a 2000. But if it's going to kill my motorhome I'll have to either accept the fact that the motorhome might be short lived or give up the heavy toad.
I think most of the Sprinter based motorhomes that are towing a heavy Jeep have low enough miles that no problems have popped up yet, and most people don't realize the stress it is putting on the little 3 liter diesel which is severely choked by all the emissions it has.

I would love to hear from other Sprinter based RV owners who tow in the Western mountains and deserts.

[Eagle5]

Hi Brian,
Very impressive heat build-ups you are observing there; especially with the brakes. I have a 3,000 pound boat that I tow, but mostly on fairly mellow grades. I sold my 1972 Jeep CJ-5 back in 1987, but there were a few times that I wish I had kept it.
Could you get-by without a Toad at all?
Eagle5

[creativepart]

I suggest doing some searching at www.Sprinter-Source.com/forum. They have a RV section and maybe you’ll find other Sprinter RVers towing a heavy Jeep toad.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i...-conversions.4

Taking the motorhome and toad down steep grades is always a concern. I don’t know your experience level with this task. There is a right way and a wrong way. Doing it wrong can be deadly.

Also, if you’ve heated your disks that much perhaps think about having your brake fluid flushed now. Brake fluid attracts water from the air and heavy breaking can lead to enough heat to boil your brake fluid which releases that water and can cause your brakes to fail.

Ideally, your brake fluid should be completely changed out every two years due to water absorption.

Lastly does your brake pedal pulsate when you brake now? If it does the brake disks have likely warped form the high heat. And also brake pads can become glazed and loose effectiveness, as well.

As an added cause, consider that perhaps your Vias’s braking system maybe wasn’t in top condition even before adding that heavy toad into the equation.

The good thing is you made it down the mountain without a catastrophic brake failure.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by creativepart

I suggest doing some searching at www.Sprinter-Source.com/forum. They have a RV section and maybe you’ll find other Sprinter RVers towing a heavy Jeep toad.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i...-conversions.4

Taking the motorhome and toad down steep grades is always a concern. I don’t know your experience level with this task. There is a right way and a wrong way. Doing it wrong can be deadly.

Also, if you’ve heated your disks that much perhaps think about having your brake fluid flushed now. Brake fluid attracts water from the air and heavy breaking can lead to enough heat to boil your brake fluid which releases that water and can cause your brakes to fail.

Ideally, your brake fluid should be completely changed out every two years due to water absorption.

Lastly does your brake pedal pulsate when you brake now? If it does the brake disks have likely warped form the high heat. And also brake pads can become glazed and loose effectiveness, as well.

As an added cause, consider that perhaps your Vias’s braking system maybe wasn’t in top condition even before adding that heavy toad into the equation.

The good thing is you made it down the mountain without a catastrophic brake failure.

I do have extensive experience in mountain driving having lived in the West since I was of driving age, never had issues before even towing 8,000 lbs with my Superduty but this is the first vehicle I've owned that has no real engine braking. It was barely manageable without the toad but adding the toad made it worse as I don't believe the Ready Brake gives enough braking for my application. A 40 foot diesel pusher with a Ready Brake is likely not to even notice, but the Jeep weighs a third of what my Via weighs and I really need that supplemental braking when descending and that is where it let me down, it requires way to hard of braking on the motorhome to engage the Ready Brake. If I reduce speed to under 10-15 MPH and use first or second gear it helps but speed still builds and has to be snubbed off, plus I get a line of cars behind me and to pull off repeatedly to let then pass means more extra hard braking which is what basically happened when we came around a bend and the D-9 was in front of us.
Prior to this my brakes were at 90%, my rotor runout was within spec and I power flushed my system two years ago and again this year. I also had Mercedes check the brakes when they did my AEM and they reported the same as I had measured myself.
I was concerned that I had got them too hot but they seem to work fine after cooling and no pulsating from hot spots or warpage so I think I'm OK there. Flushing the fluid is no big deal for me as I have the equipment. I always use new fluid from metal cans and do not save open containers.
My main issue is with the Ready Brake. I am going to try a Demco Stay-In-Play Duo which was recommended by another person on another forum who tows a Jeep with Sprinter based RV although they have not travelled some of the steeper grades I have to deal with. Another option is unhooking the Jeep and having my wife drive it on the grades but this won't help when I travel solo.
Last resort is to get a much lighter toad, unfortunately I really wanted the Jeep for travelling the dirt roads in NM while I explore the abandoned villages where my ancestors lived.
I suppose I could descend at 5-10 MPH like the D9 but I imagine those behind me would not be too happy, I don't want to start a road rage incident.

[bigb]

After looking at a Fiat 500 weighing 2500 lbs (neat little car, and cheap as dirt) we have decided to keep the Jeep for now and unhook before we get to any major grades and the wife will follow behind. Even though we have room, we really don't want a 6TH vehicle and I can't bear to part with any of the 5 we have now.
I may look into a better braking system as that is the big problem with the Ready Brake not really helping on the way down. We don't really have problems coming down grades on straight highways with high speed limits, it's the winding, low speed grades that kills me trying to hold the speed down with the gears, the Sprinter is just not able to do that without a lot of help from the brakes.
Thanks for the suggestions.

[creativepart]

We had a Fiat 500 we bought as a 3rd car for a Toad when we first got a motorhome. It towed great and was fun to drive for a while but longer drives at our destination got old. Plus paying insurance, registration etc on a 3rd car we didn't use much got even older.

They are dirt cheap. Depreciation on them is huge. We bought one a couple of years old for less than 1/2 the cost of new. Kept it for two years and sold it for what we bought it for because it had the tow bar already installed and the buyer needed a toad.

[SpudNYC]

We drove a 2011 Reyo 23k miles all over the west with a Smart Car toad. The Sprinter did have an engine brake but the only way it would kick in was using cruise control. When we were on a descent, I’d set the cruise to 5 mph or so slower than I intended to go and the engine brake would kick in. The motor hit some high rpms and at first I thought it could not be right but, it always worked VERY well and kept me off the brakes for the most part. Also, it was fun to watch the estimated mileage skyrocket I think I hit 120 mpg on one long slope out of the Rockies.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by SpudNYC

We drove a 2011 Reyo 23k miles all over the west with a Smart Car toad. The Sprinter did have an engine brake but the only way it would kick in was using cruise control. When we were on a descent, I’d set the cruise to 5 mph or so slower than I intended to go and the engine brake would kick in. The motor hit some high rpms and at first I thought it could not be right but, it always worked VERY well and kept me off the brakes for the most part. Also, it was fun to watch the estimated mileage skyrocket I think I hit 120 mpg on one long slope out of the Rockies.

What you describe is the transmission downshifting to help control speed, not an engine brake. I have been doing this manually but I heard from someone else that the cruise control took care of it on their newer Sprinter 7 speed. I had not thought to try cruise control at low speeds like 15/20 MPH and not sure if it would even work at that low speed. You are the first person I have heard saying the 5 speed will also do this, I will try it next time. The only problem on the really steep grades with low speeds is pushing the brake when the speed builds too high cancels the CC. Thanks for the input and I will try that for sure.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by creativepart

We had a Fiat 500 we bought as a 3rd car for a Toad when we first got a motorhome. It towed great and was fun to drive for a while but longer drives at our destination got old. Plus paying insurance, registration etc on a 3rd car we didn't use much got even older.

They are dirt cheap. Depreciation on them is huge. We bought one a couple of years old for less than 1/2 the cost of new. Kept it for two years and sold it for what we bought it for because it had the tow bar already installed and the buyer needed a toad.

I wonder if the difference between towing a 2500 lb Fiat and a 3700 lb Jeep is very noticeable?

[Lov2roam]

We, the wife and I have driven all over Colorado, Utah, Montana, etc towing a Jeep 2 door sport and never really had a problem. The wife has even gone down 6% grades with a little coaching without issues. We use the ready brake system also and when we have to use the brakes it seems to help. The grades may be worse farther West but we have not had an issue. I also don’t worry about what is behind me if what is in front of me is driving slower. We will unhook on truly steep passes, which is simple with the ready brake and re-hook when we are over the pass. Downshifting and stabbing the brakes seems to work quite well. I kinda wonder if you’re over thinking this and if a lighter toad or different braking system would really make a difference. It could be that the majority of passes you are traveling are in excess of 7%, and if so, perhaps a lighter toad or unhooking would ease your concerns.

[bigb]

Lov2roam You give me hope as you are using the same exact setup as I am. Really the only issues were the Salt River Canyon and Death Valley. The Death Valley grade (Towne Pass) was over 8% for 5 miles and what makes the Salt River Canyon so difficult is it's low speeds and switchbacks as you near the bottom. Also, the Ready Brake does not always engage on sharp curves and there are plenty in the canyon.

I remember when I was younger and we had a house in Pinetop my stepdad was coming thru the canyon one night and on the CB radio he heard a woman in distress saying her brakes weren't working. It turned out it was a U-haul truck with another family member following in a car, the truck went over the edge and there were 2 fatalities. I think about that every time I travel that canyon.

The other issue is the extreme oil temps, I don't know if you monitor yours but they reach close to 270F on the climbs. Many oils begin thermal breakdown at those temps. Certainly a reason to do oil changes far more often than the 20,000 mile interval. Funny thing is when my Sprinter was built the recommendation was 10,000 miles then they changed it to 20,000. EPA driven IMHO. My last 2 oil changes I've gone just under 6,000.

Here is what the Mountain Directory West has to say about the Salt River Canyon.

[Lov2roam]

Yeah, I just picked mine up from our service center after a service A at 13,000 miles, brake check, etc. I also had the radiator flushed and the transmission fluid and filter changed. Expensive yes, but I don’t like surprises and want to keep the coach in tip top shape.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by Lov2roam

Yeah, I just picked mine up from our service center after a service A at 13,000 miles, brake check, etc. I also had the radiator flushed and the transmission fluid and filter changed. Expensive yes, but I don’t like surprises and want to keep the coach in tip top shape.

How many miles on yours?

[LOG]

Creativepart,

Let me get this straight.
Fiat 500 depreciation is hugh.
You bought one, kept it two years, and sold it for what you bought it for.
And the cost you had was a tow bar.