Battery/Kwikee steps issue 2015 Vista 27N - Page 2

dkoldman · 05-27-2023, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne M

That was back in 2008 and no it was not mentioned as being specific or not.

Okay. About 3 years ago I had very interesting conversation with WBGO conversation. Drained batteries and parasitic draw was one of several things they made me reluctant to buy an RV. My OEM batteries could barely make it through the night with me doing the normal things. The genny would fire up every morning at 8:00 pm to recharge (AGS on Quiet time) So in my research I got to testing various things and I noticed that my battery cutoff switch seems to cutoff everything but the Cable TV booster. I never had a battery drain dead, but I called WBGO and told them my scenario and they were adamant that my coach had ZERO draw. The Rep whom I had worked with before took exception and said I should take to Dealer to see why that light was on. There was no shorepower, and the inverter was also off.

Long story short, my now known worthless dealer insisted the inverter must have had a capacitor that held a charge to run that light? Magnum Dynamics laughed and assured me that was not true. We proved it by checking voltage output when Inverter was off & on.

The point is to say that nothing had a draw and WBGO apparently went to great lengths to ensure no draws. Even the propane detector turns off when House switch is OFF.

I eventually replaced the OEM NAPA batteries while still under warranty because of corrosion, water and other issues with getting through the night with vMax 125ah tanks. I can go 2 full days doing the same thing the NAPAs could barely make it overnight. Anyway the direct cause for that TV Power cable light being on was never found but it had no draw. The light did start to shut off with Disconnect switch on it's own.

My coach is at home; so just testing I will frequently disconnect shorepower and go a couple weeks with House Battery On, and I have gone up to 2 months with House Battery OFF and still be sitting at 12.9 vdc. I know I don't need to, but I have read of so many people with drained batteries, I just have to know why many have to have solar to top off the batteries or plug in a DC charger? In my view I believe parasitic draws exists, but it is based on wiring that probably should be rewired; so there is no draw when House switch is off. I know of at least on Thor RV owner that heard my story and rewired a few things in his coach and he no longer has that dreadful so called parasitic draw.

Wayne M · 05-27-2023, 09:20 AM

DK, thanks for the write up. I don't understand many of the things on my MH but I leave it plugged in and with the disconnect switches in the on position. The 2015 has a lot of switches right next to the door so it is easy for me to push a switch. I'm just so used to switching off the step that it is no problem for me to leave it out. I'm in a covered storage facility. I have never turned the disconnect switches off to test the draw with the newer coach.

With that said, in the 2008, if I left the steps on the battery would drain down to 11,? volts in about a week and a half to two weeks and that was if plugged in. At first I turned the disconnect switches off and the MH was plugged in. Could not figure why batteries were discharging until I called Wbgo and was told to leave the switches on and the steps off.

After doing that I never had a problem with battery drain again. Go figure.

I just state that if anyone is having a battery drain problem to at least try what I have stated. If it works, great. If it doesn't, get a bigger drawing board to go back to.

wyocamper · 05-27-2023, 10:36 AM

I'm not having a battery drain problem per se, I leave the coach and chassis switches off when unplugged and on when plugged in. But I also left the steps on this winter in order to keep them retracted, and I went too long between recharges and discharged the chassis battery. I also suspect that the chassis battery was the original, so it was 8 years old anyway. I replaced the coach batteries a few years ago and they're still fine.

dkoldman · 05-27-2023, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne M

DK, thanks for the write up. I don't understand many of the things on my MH but I leave it plugged in and with the disconnect switches in the on position. The 2015 has a lot of switches right next to the door so it is easy for me to push a switch. I'm just so used to switching off the step that it is no problem for me to leave it out. I'm in a covered storage facility. I have never turned the disconnect switches off to test the draw with the newer coach.

With that said, in the 2008, if I left the steps on the battery would drain down to 11,? volts in about a week and a half to two weeks and that was if plugged in. At first I turned the disconnect switches off and the MH was plugged in. Could not figure why batteries were discharging until I called Wbgo and was told to leave the switches on and the steps off.

After doing that I never had a problem with battery drain again. Go figure.

I just state that if anyone is having a battery drain problem to at least try what I have stated. If it works, great. If it doesn't, get a bigger drawing board to go back to.

That is very clear ...

I still get a little fuzzy with the On/Off meaning.

We keep our RV is parked next to our driveway and it is next to the lane my wife uses to park her car in garage, so I fear she may hit it backing up; so I always keep the Step Auto Retract Switch ON (retracted) just so she doesn't accidentally hit it. Of course for a trip I turn it back OFF ( so it stays extended when door close), or if I am doing work in the RV, I turn it Off so it doesn't keep go in and out (staying extended). All other times 80% I guess, it is On ort retracted.

Maybe one day I will put the words "Auto Retract" above the switch to help me to remember what On and Off does. My Kwikee step has really been trouble free short the poor workmanship of wiring of the 9 pin connector by WBGO.

I have 50 amp pedestal at home so you would think I keep plugged in all the time, but I don't. If it is plugged in, I have it switched off, and if electrical storm is coming, I physically unplug it. If I need something or will be in RV for a brief period, I am just as likely to start the generator as going back to house to flip the breaker. In my mind it is all about readiness. I want to make sure everything is doing what it is suppose to, so when it is Showtime, I am less likely to have unexpected surprises.

dkoldman · 05-27-2023, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyocamper

I'm not having a battery drain problem per se, I leave the coach and chassis switches off when unplugged and on when plugged in. But I also left the steps on this winter in order to keep them retracted, and I went too long between recharges and discharged the chassis battery. I also suspect that the chassis battery was the original, so it was 8 years old anyway. I replaced the coach batteries a few years ago and they're still fine.

How long do you estimate as too long? And you bring up good point and that is monitor the voltage on the Chassis battery. I Chassis battery is still OEM NAPA, I plan to replace this Fall when it is exactly 5 years old working or not with new Wal Mart Everstart AGM $179.

In a way this thread reminds me of talking with RVI Brake 3 when they insisted their Wireless Brakeaway Adaptor did not draw on the battery when not in use, but I don't see how, because if it is wireless it has to have power 24/7 because it never knows when a signal make come to activate the emergency brakeaway switch. I hardwired my to not take chances.

Wayne M · 05-27-2023, 12:11 PM

Gets confusing sometimes, for me.

I equate step switch on as what you described as Auto Retract/Extend. Door open, extended. Door closed, step retracted. OFF is the step stays out.

Now, I'm not sure if when in the OFF position if the step would stay retracted when the door is open. I'm thinking not, it will extend as a safety precaution. So I would assume that if retracted and in the off position voltage and current are still there/available.

In November 22 I had the service batteries replaced and the put in "ABP GE113XMF Desc: 12v starting battery 1000c." For the house batteies the put in ODX AGM31 Desc: AGM 220 AH reserve capacity, 103 AH at 20 hours. The batteries they replaced were the orignal and although not giving me any problems I thought it was time to replace them.

I'm only plugged into 120v 15 amp at the storage facility. Disconnect switches are always on, steps extended and step switch off.

I fully understand the backing up statement. DW doesn't read this thread but when the coach was in the driveway for loading/unloading, (and I had the driveway widened) she parks the her car in the garage and she turns a littel to the right for "extra get out clearance." When she backs out the car is coming out at an angle to the right. She nicked the slide cover. Fortunately it was slight and rubbing compound took care of all the scratches. I'm not going to tell about the time with her passenger side mirror, uh uh!

wyocamper · 05-27-2023, 03:04 PM

The only way I've found to keep the steps in when the door is open, like when I need to work on the batteries, is to tape a magnet over the door frame magnet, tricking the controller into thinking the screen door is closed.

dkoldman · 05-27-2023, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyocamper

The only way I've found to keep the steps in when the door is open, like when I need to work on the batteries, is to tape a magnet over the door frame magnet, tricking the controller into thinking the screen door is closed.

Thus far I have never had need for steps to be in (retracted) and the door opened?

When working on the batteries it is like a step stool, but truth be told the only thing I do in my battery compartment since the VMax Tanks is wipe down the dust. I wish the entire compartment was encased except for maybe a vent. A true FLA should never go in the modern day Motorhomes.

I will say this when RV was new, and I had the Kwikie issue with random retracting, I was always nervous when standing on the steps cleaning that dang corrosion of t he post and floor, I was afraid that any minute the steps would retract on me.

I never understood why the Chassis NAPA FLA never corroded but the House Batteries was an absolute nightmare. I know NAPA is a good brand, but I will never buy them on purpose.

Wayne M · 05-27-2023, 09:11 PM

Nope, never did find a need to keep the steps in. Putting a magnet on the door doesn't cut off the current draw. Just keeps the door closed.

Wayne M · 05-27-2023, 09:48 PM

I'm definitely gong to have to check with Lippert on the possibiity of a current draw when the switch is left on. It is a controller with an electronic current limiter. Hmm!

dkoldman · 05-28-2023, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne M

I'm definitely gong to have to check with Lippert on the possibiity of a current draw when the switch is left on. It is a controller with an electronic current limiter. Hmm!

I would love to know.

If it had any draw, it would be tiny not easy to measure that I can see. And if it did, I would question why it would be any different with switch on or off? When off, my controller has to be able read voltage 24/7 to know that it is off to stay extended. If voltage drops under 12vdc it will retract the steps before battery goes dead.

wyocamper · 05-28-2023, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne M

Nope, never did find a need to keep the steps in. Putting a magnet on the door doesn't cut off the current draw. Just keeps the door closed.

When I replaced the coach batteries a few years ago it was really hard to access the compartment under the stairs with the steps out. I figured out that I could trick the controller into thinking the door was closed so they'd stay in by sticking a magnet over the door frame magnet. Made getting the batteries in and out a whole lot easier, and has nothing whatsoever to do with current draw.

dkoldman · 05-28-2023, 04:36 PM

Wyocamper, out of all my patting on the back for Kwikie Steps, I think my motor just went out?

I was parking the RV and when I got out the steps were only halfway extended. They had been working just minutes before.

So I then noticed I could push the steps in or pull back out but it was as if it was not on the gears. But looking underneath the sprocket was still on the gears but the shaft would free spin with my movement. When I stand clear and turn Auto Retract on, you could hear it trying to retract but it is as is the shaft is not on the motor? I don't know if that is possible? I assume the shaft is part of the motor.

Ironically, so as to not cause a problem with draining on battery, I have the Auto Retract switch to OFF and manually have steps fully extended with door close. If I go inside and start the engine, I will hear the motor trying to retract.

Most likely root cause.
One of the bolts had fallen off ( come loose) I found it in the driveway. I suspect it may have created to much force on motor to extend / retract and some how damaged something.

I don't want to highjack your thread, but thought it coincidental and noteworthy. Any idea of what the motors costs? I think I will need one.

dkoldman · 05-28-2023, 06:37 PM

So I called my Mobile Tech and told him what happened. Not gonna wait to talk to Lippert / Kwikie, I ordered a new motor 300-1457 off Amazon and should have it tomorrow. Maybe Mobile Tech can fix Tues or Wednesday?

I could probably replace the motor myself, but it has been a while since the mobile tech has had to do anything; so I like to use him as much as possible to keep the relationship active. May have him look at roof seams while he is here.

Ray,IN · 05-28-2023, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne M

Gets confusing sometimes, for me.

I equate step switch on as what you described as Auto Retract/Extend. Door open, extended. Door closed, step retracted. OFF is the step stays out.

Now, I'm not sure if when in the OFF position if the step would stay retracted when the door is open. I'm thinking not, it will extend as a safety precaution. So I would assume that if retracted and in the off position voltage and current are still there/available.

In November 22 I had the service batteries replaced and the put in "ABP GE113XMF Desc: 12v starting battery 1000c." For the house batteies the put in ODX AGM31 Desc: AGM 220 AH reserve capacity, 103 AH at 20 hours. The batteries they replaced were the orignal and although not giving me any problems I thought it was time to replace them.

I'm only plugged into 120v 15 amp at the storage facility. Disconnect switches are always on, steps extended and step switch off.

I fully understand the backing up statement. DW doesn't read this thread but when the coach was in the driveway for loading/unloading, (and I had the driveway widened) she parks the her car in the garage and she turns a littel to the right for "extra get out clearance." When she backs out the car is coming out at an angle to the right. She nicked the slide cover. Fortunately it was slight and rubbing compound took care of all the scratches. I'm not going to tell about the time with her passenger side mirror, uh uh!

To prevent the steps from extending; with steps retracted, turn the switch on before opening the door. MIne is that way anyhow.

In my mind, when the key is off and the steps follow the door the switch is on, when they remain extended until the key is turned on the switch is off.

Wayne M · 05-28-2023, 08:25 PM

Ray, in my coach ir the switch is on or off the steps will extend when the door is opened. If the switch is off and the door is closed it will remain extended unles the ignition is turned on.

Wayne M · 05-28-2023, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkoldman

[...]

I don't want to highjack your thread, but thought it coincidental and noteworthy. Any idea of what the motors costs? I think I will need one.

Amazon, search for Kwikee step motor. From $29 on up.

WillowRider · 05-28-2023, 10:53 PM

Morich mentioned the reed switch. This is what was causing my problem (2021 View 24D (2020 M-B 3500XD Sprinter Chassis). I'll spare all the insanely incompetent local Winnebago dealer's service tech's wasted efforts attempting to fix, but the symptoms are remarkably similar to yours. The reed switch has two parts, one on the door, the other in the door frame. They must be close enough to each other for the magnet to properly engage the electrical parts. My solution was to put a 1/4" spacer behind the switch part oh the door. This lessened the gap between the two switch parts. I have not had the same problem with the steps since. Just a thought ...

cthiggy · 05-29-2023, 10:28 AM

What a coincidence. I have been going through the same issue on our 2020 MB Winnebago Navion for the last eight (8) months.

First, the Revolution Step was intermittent, then stopped working altogether. Ordered and replaced the Step motor after which the steps worked three or four times then stopped working again.

Last month, was able to inject 12VDC from an automobile battery directly into the Step motor with no movement. Reversed the polarity with same results. Pulled the Step motor and returned it for a warranty replacement. Waiting for new motor.

At this stage of the game, I am considering junking the entire Kwikee Revolution Step System and going with a "manual" step system IF there is one with similar mounting brackets. Is there anyone on this forum who has done that??

Inquiring minds would like to know.
cthiggy

wyocamper · 05-29-2023, 10:44 AM

Funny thing happened today. I bought the 2 and 4 way harnesses for testing, and a spool of wire and some alligator and battery clamps to connect to the battery. Went out this morning to test the motor using the 2-way harness, I opened the door, dropped the wires down from the battery compartment and hooked them to the battery. I closed the door and got ready to slide under the coach but realized I forgot the harness. I opened the door to grab it and the steps came out. Tested several times and lubed all the hinges, they seem to be working fine now. For now I'll leave them turned off lol.

The coach has been plugged in to shore power for a couple of days, the only thing I can think of is that the new battery wasn't fully charged when I brought it home from Walmart last week. I wasn't especially looking forward to replacing either the motor or controller, so I'm happy. Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions.