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Old 05-21-2023, 07:33 PM   #1
Winnie-Wise
 
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Battery/Kwikee steps issue 2015 Vista 27N

My chassis batter died and I replaced it today. It's been having issues holding a charge and I think it might have been the original battery. For the past few months I've had to keep it plugged in for the steps to work. It's been unplugged for a week or so, and today it wouldn't start. The battery showed 6.9v, so I pulled it and bought a replacement. Now the steps don't extend at all, I don't even hear the step motor trying. The battery is good and the coach starts just fine now, but no steps. What am I missing? Thanks for any suggestions.
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Old 05-21-2023, 10:08 PM   #2
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My previous Winnebago had a problem with the battery draining. I spoke with the factory technician and was told that the trickle charge cannot keep up with the power drain if the steps are left in the "On" position. Once I started leaving the step switch in the "Off" position I never had another problem with the battery. With the step switch in the on position there is a constant current drain.

As for not working, first thing is to check the wire from the motor going to chassis ground. Notorious problem of breaking and corrosion.

Check the connector for 12v DC. Check the magnetic door switch for continuity when open and when closed. I don't remember if the continuity is shunted when open or when closed.

Others should be along soon with some other ideas. Worse case scenario is buy a new one on Amazon for from $35 to $80. Make sure the part numbers match what you have. If you don't hve the part number from the motor match the pictures to what you have.
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Old 05-22-2023, 11:08 AM   #3
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Just as a side view? One thing that we can miss and let it drag the chassis battery down is the light under the steps!
Light bulbs do run things down and when it is daylight, it is super easy to forget that when the steps are out, that bulb may be on but not bright enough to spot!

As a more direct way to look for the trouble, there are some really good troubleshooting manuals online for the steps. One thing I've learned is that they are WAY more complex than many other things on the rV, so I have to have a manual to begin to sort any trouble!
I'm very slow to start changing parts as there are so many other easy fixes if we just look at the right points. Things like corroded power or corroded grounds, are much, much more common than failed motors.
But that is where the right manual will show you where to find the battery and ground connections on the steps. Have you found a label on the steps to ID which model for best checking for manuals?
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Old 05-22-2023, 04:14 PM   #4
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Thanks for the tips. I haven't really looked at anything yet, by the time I got home and got the new battery installed it was getting late and I had to get dinner started. I just got home from work and am going to go out now and see what I can find out.

I leave the switch in the On position in order to keep the steps retracted, and plugged in to shore power periodically. Where it's parked for storage having the steps out makes it difficult to get past it. I'd like to find a way to keep the steps stored without having them powered up, but I haven't figured it out yet.
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Old 05-22-2023, 04:28 PM   #5
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All those small points are hard to figure and it seems they are almost neuotic about wanting the steps to be out every time you move and in every time you start the engine.
My last RV had batteries under the steps to inside and when working batteries, I wanted them to stay in. It took a while to figure how to keeep the right size magnet sticking to the door switch. Some were too strong and bent the reed switch and others got knocked off too easy so the steps flew out to bang my shins!

Right now I am kind of relieved to NOT have an RV and just read about other folks troubles!

No more batteries to watch and far fewer skinned shins!
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Old 05-22-2023, 10:52 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by wyocamper View Post
Thanks for the tips. I haven't really looked at anything yet, by the time I got home and got the new battery installed it was getting late and I had to get dinner started. I just got home from work and am going to go out now and see what I can find out.

I leave the switch in the On position in order to keep the steps retracted, and plugged in to shore power periodically. Where it's parked for storage having the steps out makes it difficult to get past it. I'd like to find a way to keep the steps stored without having them powered up, but I haven't figured it out yet.
On my previous RV I used a stick to reach the switch. I closed the screen door which caused the steps to go in then reached in with the stick and turned the switch to the off position.

On my present RV the step switch is right by the bottom of the door opening and I can reach in and turn it off but I do so with the step out. My coach is in storage and I have not had a problem with the step being out in the 6 years I have owned this RV.

If you cannot keep your battery up and have to leave the step out, I'm assuming here you are plugged into at least 110 (assume) consider adding a battery minder to your service battery to keep it charged.

With Winnebago bot the house switch and the chassis switch disconnects have to be on in order to charge the batteries. The house batteries charge first the the trickle charger charges the chassis batteries.

That is based on my model so call Winnebago service and ask questions. It's free.
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Old 05-23-2023, 07:22 AM   #7
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For those who want to "trick" the door switch to make it think the door is closed, try a small magnet placed on the sensor to replace the one on the door which would normally move the reed switch as the door is closed.
One word of warningis too avoid using a really strong magnet as the redd inside the switch is a really delicate thing and it can be bent if using too much magnet.
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Old 05-23-2023, 09:17 AM   #8
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Richard, I'm thinking (bad thing) that if the door was tricked that the constant current that is still there will cause the current limiting electrnics to put a drain on the service battery. Your thoughts!

When I was having the problem with the 2008 MH, Winnebago specifically told me to turn the steps "off," when in storage to prevent drain. I did that and never had a low battery again.
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Old 05-23-2023, 10:39 AM   #9
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Richard, I'm thinking (bad thing) that if the door was tricked that the constant current that is still there will cause the current limiting electrnics to put a drain on the service battery. Your thoughts!

When I was having the problem with the 2008 MH, Winnebago specifically told me to turn the steps "off," when in storage to prevent drain. I did that and never had a low battery again.
I recommend going with what they are telling you versus what I have on the steps! A big point is that I have never fully understood how and what they do! My "homemade solution was to keep the stesp in while I wanted to work cleaning the batteries and may not be the bets for full time.

My purpose may not fit for what others want as my idea was simply to keep the door open and NOT have the steps out as they were in the way! Step switch on or off, I could not keep them in if the door was open , so the magnet to fool it worked for my purpose at the time.
I never got around to looking for any drawings or inside info on how they were set to do so many things like in or out with different setups.

Not a field I'm comfortable with recomending too far!!
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Old 05-23-2023, 07:05 PM   #10
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Some mis-information has been suggested.

The Kwikee Products Service Training Manual has a trouble-shooting tree to help diagnose problems then has the remedies following. It also helps you identify your step model number.

Kwikee steps are always "hot", the controller powers the motor and changes its direction by switching the ground, of which there are two. The steps require 12.6VDC to operate, so it the battery is not fully-charged or the engine running or on shore power, they may not work.


The controller senses increased amp-draw to turn the motor on/off, so if you haven't been lubing the step joints they may be so stiff the controller will not turn on 12V to the motor.



That said; I doubt your steps have a problem. They never worked after you moved the battery wiring, that was the only change. Retrace your past actions and look for a wire you missed re-connecting
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Old 05-23-2023, 09:34 PM   #11
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I had a chance to look yesterday, the two wire plug to the motor was tight and the contacts were clean. I didn't find a ground on the motor and only realized later that it's on the controller. I'll look again this weekend. The steps didn't come out when I opened the door to access the battery compartment, which makes sense as the battery was discharged. They didn't come out when I connected the new battery either though.

I pulled the terminal clamps off the old chassis battery then put them back on the new one, there aren't any loose wires I can see, just the two wires that connect to the positive clamp.I didn't disconnect those, just loosened the clamp to pull it off the post. I got home late today and didn't have time to work on it, hoping the rain holds off long enough for me to get back underneath it this week or weekend. I read a thread about resetting the controller so I'll try that as well as smacking the motor with a hammer. I did download the service manual yesterday but haven't had a chance to go through it yet. I'll try to do that this week.

Thanks
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Old 05-24-2023, 10:56 AM   #12
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Richard, I understand and your solution for you at the time was a magnet to "fool" the controller. Works perfectly for getting to the compartment. My hydraulic tank is under the step but I'm fortunate enough to be able to work with the steps out. Might give the magnet a try next time for just a little easier access.

Ray, good info on "how it works." With the constant draw on the steps by the current limiting electronics there is definitely a constant draw.

Winnebago told me that with all the other peripheral electronics that when the step is added the trickle charger just can't keep up and turning the step switch off solves that.

I saw one other place that someone put a toggle switch to the controller somewhere by the step and they kill the power and eliminate the draw. They did that because the step switch was out of reach
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Old 05-24-2023, 11:47 AM   #13
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Richard, I understand and your solution for you at the time was a magnet to "fool" the controller. Works perfectly for getting to the compartment. My hydraulic tank is under the step but I'm fortunate enough to be able to work with the steps out. Might give the magnet a try next time for just a little easier access.

Ray, good info on "how it works." With the constant draw on the steps by the current limiting electronics there is definitely a constant draw.

Winnebago told me that with all the other peripheral electronics that when the step is added the trickle charger just can't keep up and turning the step switch off solves that.

I saw one other place that someone put a toggle switch to the controller somewhere by the step and they kill the power and eliminate the draw. They did that because the step switch was out of reach
Did WBGO say if that draw was coach specific? I have never experienced that with switch either way?

Not sure if OP has called Kwikee directly but they are very helpful with real humans answering the phone. He is either getting power to the controller or it is dead.

I had issue with my steps randomly retracting when it should have stayed extended. Kwikee insisted it was with coach, but Dealer could not find an issue and even charged me to check out. 2 months later I found on my own as 9 pin connector off the 12v bus was barely touching so vibration of the coach could lose the 12v it needed to tell controller to stay extended. I have not been back to the Dealer since.
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Old 05-24-2023, 08:42 PM   #14
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I got to take another look today after work and found the 4-wire harness from the battery compartment. There is 12v on the harness, but I forgot to take my headlamp under there and couldn't really see but I assume on the red wire. The light is working, but that's about as far as I got before a thunderstorm moved in. I ordered the 2 wire and 4 wire harnesses from Amazon and will follow the Kwikee step troubleshooting manual to determine if it's the motor or control unit.

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws...cd_0001636.pdf
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Old 05-25-2023, 08:52 AM   #15
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It's a bummer to have more tools but I have noticed that the best techs use the best tools!
It's hard to do a good job cooking a turkey on a camp stove, even harder without a stove, so I think you are moving in the right direction!
Good luck on the chase!
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Old 05-26-2023, 05:38 PM   #16
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This is the part I ordered from Amazon, which was delivered today:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Here's what was actually in the package they delivered:
https://www.amazon.com/GOLDTOE-Ultra...s%2C136&sr=8-5


So much for working on the steps this weekend. Oh well, thanks Amazon
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Old 05-26-2023, 06:43 PM   #17
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I have tried those socks, they don't work. I would send back

I am kind of lost on your problem, but seeing the picture gives me vivid memory of my issue. The first thing Kwikee had me check was those 4 wires and they confirmed 100% all was good on their side. (they ultimately were right; but Dealer did not agree)

I had 12vdc on the pin the amazon picture calls Battery+
I checked with the steps switch on and off and I could the voltage change. That switch if I recall is NOT the power, but telling the controller if you want Auto Extend ON or OFF. I call it that way to not confuse myself because the Switch as labeled is not intuitive to me.

Anyway, in my case at any random moment and extended period of time that voltage on Battery+ would drop to 7.0vdc or so. It had nothing to do with battery because the 12vdc bus would be at 13.2vdc.

So eventually I became a Mini-Morich and got my 12vdc Electrical drawing and found a WBFO connector somewhere behind the breaker panel coming of the 12vdc buss. I verified that same pin had the low voltage 7.0vdc coming out, but 13.2 coming in. I pull the 9 pin connector apart and presto; I found my problem.

I had to work to reseed firmly one of those pins. I have not had an issue since. I got a thread and pictures somewhere. If I find; I will link.

I think your issue may be similar, but with one of the others wires that actually control the power for motor? I would be very surprised if it is actually an issue with the 4 pin connector you ordered.

Edit here is link to the pictures and my fix.
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3917971
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Old 05-26-2023, 07:09 PM   #18
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The 4 pin and 2 pin harnesses are for testing, per the Kwikee troubleshooting manual I linked earlier. The primary purpose is to isolate the problem to either the motor or controller. I don't suspect a problem with the connector either.
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Old 05-26-2023, 08:13 PM   #19
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The 4 pin and 2 pin harnesses are for testing, per the Kwikee troubleshooting manual I linked earlier. The primary purpose is to isolate the problem to either the motor or controller. I don't suspect a problem with the connector either.

Got it it. I almost forgot when I was troubleshooting with them on the phone, long before the actual fix; while following the steps they were giving me on the phone, my steps got stuck extended. No matter what we did they would NOT retract. The RV was still under warranty, so Kwikee rushed me a new controller. While waiting on new controller one morning I noticed it had retracted by itself I put the new controller in the RV as spare part . At that point I was convinced it was issue with RV and Kwikee was Gold. I never had additional harnesses for testing though, thus my confusion. Sounds like your controller may have got zapped during the battery change out. But they have test to confirm 100% whether controller or motor.

Good luck
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Old 05-26-2023, 09:59 PM   #20
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Did WBGO say if that draw was coach specific? I have never experienced that with switch either way?

[...]

That was back in 2008 and no it was not mentioned as being specific or not.
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