Solar Planning Questions

[Ret.LEO]

Hi all,
New at this as we will buying our retirement gift to us when the wife finally calls it a day.
We want to do mostly boondocking and avoid crowded CG's like the plague.
Probably going to be either a 26' or a 31' Minnie.
Solar will be a large part of our experience.
To start with I'm thinking 4 panels on the roof for aprox 400 watts. Two 12volt AGM's, a 2800 or 3000 watt pure sine whole house inverter. We will have to have a auto gen control as we will have two Golden Retrievers with us and their safety (temp) is mandatory.
I have no problem having to fire up the gen a couple of hrs every day (or night) to stay "charged up" if needed. Our major uses will be chargeing computers, large TV, coffee pot, normal lighting etc
Am I thinking along the right path?
Anything that gets done will have to be hired out as I'm disabled.

[Sue46]

You are thinking along the right path. If the rig doesn't come with "stuff" I would look into Magum, they are a complete package though $$. We have a gen, 4 panels(165 watts each) , 4 AGM batteries(Sams Club).



I would be careful about having a dealer install all this unless you have eperience with them and are happy. A third party installer will do a much better and faster job.



If you don't know of one ask on the forum for one around you.


Happy Retirement!!!

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Ret.LEO

Am I thinking along the right path?

You are on the right path - but I question your need of such a large inverter. It may be nice to have more wattage available. But unless you're thinking you might run your AC from your inverter I think you'll find 2000w plenty of power.

If you are thinking that you'd sometimes run your AC from your inverter then you have not planned for enough solar panels or battery bank size.

A 400w solar setup with 400 ah battery bank (4-100ah AGM 12v batteries) and a 2000w PSW inverter will suit you very well. Run the microwave a little, the coffee maker, a residential fridge and all your TVs and chargers pretty well without a huge amount of generator usage. Of course, there will probably be some gen usage, but you're prepared for that.

Of course, the amount of sunshine or your ability to position to receive it will have a big impact on this.

PS. Since you're having this installed for you, your installer will probably do this automatically, but be sure to include a Battery Monitor Kit in your install. It's pretty much a necessity.

[creativepart]

RetLEO, I moved your solar planing questions out of the Adding Solar thread and into it's very own thread to give it more exposure and hopefully get all your questions answered specifically.

[al1florida]

Ret.LEO,
Here is some reading for you gain more information about of the many, many details involved in what you are planning on doing.
The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
The 12volt Side of Life Part 2
https://rv-dreams.typepad.com/rvdrea...rprise-az.html


Part about why I suggest the reading is for only having two 12V batteries, that only gives you from about 140-200AH (Amp Hours) of battery. You don't specify the size of your planned batteries so that is why the wide range of AH's.

A single pair of 12V batteries or a pair of 6V GC (Golf Cart) batteries are suitable for a 1000 watt inverter. Larger inverters have the potential to pull far to many amps for too long a time from just a pair of batteries.

4 batteries would be fine for a 2000 watt inverter and for the 2800-3000 watt you should have at least 6 batteries.

[al1florida]

Originally Posted by Ret.LEO

Hi all,
New at this as we will buying our retirement gift to us when the wife finally calls it a day.
We want to do mostly boondocking and avoid crowded CG's like the plague.
Probably going to be either a 26' or a 31' Minnie.
Solar will be a large part of our experience.
To start with I'm thinking 4 panels on the roof for aprox 400 watts. Two 12volt AGM's, a 2800 or 3000 watt pure sine whole house inverter. We will have to have a auto gen control as we will have two Golden Retrievers with us and their safety (temp) is mandatory.
I have no problem having to fire up the gen a couple of hrs every day (or night) to stay "charged up" if needed. Our major uses will be chargeing computers, large TV, coffee pot, normal lighting etc
Am I thinking along the right path?
Anything that gets done will have to be hired out as I'm disabled.

You don't mention using the microwave. The only high current device you have listed is the coffee pot. A 1000 watt inverter will drive the coffee pot and will work with only a pair of 6V Golf Cart batteries.

I'm not sure if you are thinking of running the A/C off of an inverter or not. You mention keeping your dogs safe and cool. Running A/C off of battery & inverter is not a practical thing to do. Even if you have 6 or 8 batteries you are limited to only running the A/C for 1-3 hours. Then at the end you have no reserve battery to power your lights, TV etc.
Keep in mind, that while you have "no problem running the generator for a couple of hours each day to charge batteries", your boondocking neighbors (that don't run a generator) may not be happy with your generator noise if you are parked within 200-300 yards of them. Please keep them in mind when using a generator. Yes, most motorhomes with generators are pretty quiet. However when boondocking if you neighbor can hear your generator, then the two of you are camping to close. Of course if they pulled up and parked near you, that is not your concern.

About hiring someone to install the solar panels, solar controller, inverter, and batteries. Make sure to find a quality installer and insist they use large enough wire/cable size. It only takes a few dollars to go to the next larger (smaller number) wire size, but it really increases the amount of usable power you get from the solar panels and batteries. Also be sure to have a battery monitor such as Trimetric: TriMetric Model Descriptions - Bogart Engineering


Here is a link to a website with some very pertinent info about solar & battery installs. He has some very strong opinions, but the info about a good install are right on.

HandyBob's Blog Solar & Elect



For more very detailed info about solar and batteries (probably more detail than you may want) go here: Jack Mayer RV Electrical



The bottom line to all this. It is very easy to get a system which does not perform well, but attention to detail pays many dividends.

[Ret.LEO]

Originally Posted by creativepart

RetLEO, I moved your solar planing questions out of the Adding Solar thread and into it's very own thread to give it more exposure and hopefully get all your questions answered specifically.

Thanks for the help, getting some great help here......VERY appreciated

[Ret.LEO]

Originally Posted by al1florida

You don't mention using the microwave. The only high current device you have listed is the coffee pot. A 1000 watt inverter will drive the coffee pot and will work with only a pair of 6V Golf Cart batteries.

I'm not sure if you are thinking of running the A/C off of an inverter or not. You mention keeping your dogs safe and cool. Running A/C off of battery & inverter is not a practical thing to do. Even if you have 6 or 8 batteries you are limited to only running the A/C for 1-3 hours. Then at the end you have no reserve battery to power your lights, TV etc.
Keep in mind, that while you have "no problem running the generator for a couple of hours each day to charge batteries", your boondocking neighbors (that don't run a generator) may not be happy with your generator noise if you are parked within 200-300 yards of them. Please keep them in mind when using a generator. Yes, most motorhomes with generators are pretty quiet. However when boondocking if you neighbor can hear your generator, then the two of you are camping to close. Of course if they pulled up and parked near you, that is not your concern.

About hiring someone to install the solar panels, solar controller, inverter, and batteries. Make sure to find a quality installer and insist they use large enough wire/cable size. It only takes a few dollars to go to the next larger (smaller number) wire size, but it really increases the amount of usable power you get from the solar panels and batteries. Also be sure to have a battery monitor such as Trimetric: TriMetric Model Descriptions - Bogart Engineering


Here is a link to a website with some very pertinent info about solar & battery installs. He has some very strong opinions, but the info about a good install are right on.

HandyBob's Blog Solar & Elect



For more very detailed info about solar and batteries (probably more detail than you may want) go here: Jack Mayer RV Electrical



The bottom line to all this. It is very easy to get a system which does not perform well, but attention to detail pays many dividends.

Thanks Al and Sharon, great advice and reading
My next question I was going to post was is there professional people that can be trusted to do installations? Didn't know if there was any type of certification for good installers or not. I am sure there are some good RV Dealers who do a good quality install but probably more who are not really qualified to trust with the best, safest install w/out getting ripped off.
Had also been considering a package solar system from either ZAMP or Renogy or if I would be better off using the best components from various manufacturers?
Best thing we still have time before we make the plunge on a new Class C so we have time to figure out which will be best for us.
I don't have any hopes of being able to run the AC from Solar........just way too big of investment for the limited benefit.
Thanks all!

[BobC]

You should be able to find a good, independent owner-operator RV repair shop that can handle it. After you've educated yourself you'll know what questions to ask and can ask for references.

Running the generator to run the microwave isn't an issue since the runtime is relatively short. Running it for several hours a day can be problematical if you have neighbors. Generators are pretty quiet when you're inside but outside, "downstream" of the exhaust, they can be quite irritating to other campers. If you're on your own, have at it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can keep your coach cooler while driving by running your house A/C off the generator. I haven't done this yet, but from what I've read, it's a common practice and doesn't use that much fuel. Not only will your dogs appreciate it, you're coach will be cooler once you stop. The key is to not let it get too hot in the first place.

Here's a link to running A/C on solar that may either encourage or discourage you:

https://www.gonewiththewynns.com/off...r-conditioning

You also might want to look into larger panels instead of just 100w panels. Fewer panels may or may not make more sense given your roof configuration. I purchased two 180w Grape solar panels from Home Depot.

[Morich]

The big thing I might note on the planning is that things are often rated for optimum conditions and that may not happen too often. Like getting the solar aimed and following the sun? Not a simple thing and certainly depends on where you are planning to be to find that sun! Lots of small points can cut the output. Things like clouds, we think about but then other things like dust and dirt can do some, too as well as being a bit off on the aiming. Then when we get into using batteries we will often find the ratings may be a bit better than we actually get and part of that depends on how well we take care of whatever battery we choose. Getting good batteries is a start but even the best do go down as they age.

[powercat_ras]

The type of RV you are likely going to buy will originally come with 2 group 24 RV/Marine Batteries that can store about 160 Amp-hours. To get reasonable life you will want to avoid draining them below about 50 percent. Solar typically does not charge them back to 100 percent, more like 90 percent. So this type of battery bank can do about 64 amp-hours between late afternoon and mid-morning going between 90 % and 50 %.

If you go new or nearly new then you should get a RV with LED lighting, this greatly reduces the solar power needs. If you get a RV without LED lighting change every light you will use more than a few minutes a day to LED.

You should consider two 160 watt panels to start with a good MPPT charge controller, this will be able to replenish the 64 amp-hours on days with sun.

The 3,000 watt pure sine wave inverter with a remote on/off switch is a good size if you want to wire your RV to operate all convenience outlets in your RV and the microwave oven outlet. It will be able to handle the startup surge of the microwave oven. It must be located VERY close to the batteries and cabled with 0 gauge cables.

The simplest way to cable the 120 VAC side of the inverter would be to cable it to a 30 Amp RV outlet and just plug the RV shore cable into the inverter, and then manually flip off several of the circuit breakers when operating off the inverter: The AC, Refrigerator, (assuming you get an RV with a propane refrigerator), and Converter are the ones you flip off. You also manually make sure to never switch on the AC heater for the hot water heater when on the inverter.

There are lots of upgrades over and above this ...

The best first incremental upgrade is a Battery Monitor that uses a shunt and monitors exactly how much charge is in your battery bank. I use the Victron BMV-700.

Upgrade the Winnebago OEM NAPA RV/Marine batteries to Golf Cart (make sure they will fit), or AGM, or Lithium

Connect the inverter AC output to the RV using several transfer switches so you don't have to mess with the manual breaker flip off methods.

[Steve_n_Sam]

Does anyone have recommendations for a good solar installer in the Goodyear, AZ area?

[Ret.LEO]

Originally Posted by BobC

You should be able to find a good, independent owner-operator RV repair shop that can handle it. After you've educated yourself you'll know what questions to ask and can ask for references.

Running the generator to run the microwave isn't an issue since the runtime is relatively short. Running it for several hours a day can be problematical if you have neighbors. Generators are pretty quiet when you're inside but outside, "downstream" of the exhaust, they can be quite irritating to other campers. If you're on your own, have at it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can keep your coach cooler while driving by running your house A/C off the generator. I haven't done this yet, but from what I've read, it's a common practice and doesn't use that much fuel. Not only will your dogs appreciate it, you're coach will be cooler once you stop. The key is to not let it get too hot in the first place.

Here's a link to running A/C on solar that may either encourage or discourage you:

https://www.gonewiththewynns.com/off...r-conditioning

You also might want to look into larger panels instead of just 100w panels. Fewer panels may or may not make more sense given your roof configuration. I purchased two 180w Grape solar panels from Home Depot.

All good suggestions. Especially not letting it get too hot before doing (trying) something about it. Better to stay ahead of it as much as possible.
We're looking at between 27ft-32ft so we should have pretty good real estate available on top. The only other addition would be a Winegard T4 in motion satellite for DISH.

Fully agreed about being conscientious about running the gen. Gotta keep the neighbors happy ..............when we have them

[Ret.LEO]

If I'm understanding (sort of) two 6 volt golf cart batteries would last long under load than two AGM's but the advantage of the AGM's is they could be put inside the Coach itself where the two Golf Cart batteries being a wet cell would have to be in a outside compartment. I'm thinking best would be the batteries in one compartment and the inverter in the compartment directly next to it to keep as short of wire run as possible between the batteries and the inverter

[powercat_ras]

Originally Posted by Ret.LEO

If I'm understanding (sort of) two 6 volt golf cart batteries would last long under load than two AGM's but the advantage of the AGM's is they could be put inside the Coach itself where the two Golf Cart batteries being a wet cell would have to be in a outside compartment. I'm thinking best would be the batteries in one compartment and the inverter in the compartment directly next to it to keep as short of wire run as possible between the batteries and the inverter

Yes. 6V golf cart batteries are taller, but have the same length and width so if you can handle the height , they can go under the step where the OEM coach batteries were. 6V golf cart batteries fit under the step of my Vista where the NAPA OEM batteries were.

[Sue46]

D and R in glendale
623.842.1265

Good installer of all rv related
Very good at solar. Knows his stuff.

[creativepart]

This guy winters in AZ and he will come to you:

Precision RV - Specializing in RV Solar Power Systems and Repair

He has a good reputation, as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4ZgMHqf9_s

[Pianotuna]

This series of articles may help:https://freecampsites.net/adding-solar/


If you really intend to run the roof air go to LI batteries so long as you don't camp below -20 c (-4f)

[Pianotuna]

six volt gc batteries under large loads do exhibit more voltage drop that 12 volt jars. gc are not always the best choice

[BobC]

There are also true, deep cycle 12V batteries, which I understand have some advantages over 6V golf cart batteries. Both are advantageous compared to the typical 12V batteries installed in most RVs which are hybrid deep cycle/starting marine style batteries.