Coach battery not charging 2007 View

[RichP]

I have a 2007 View. The coach batteries aren’t charging while driving. Chassis battery charges normally. No voltage at the battery disconnect relay post where the generator cable is connected. The cable goes through the bottom of the relay box along with the coach battery cable . How is the generator cable routed and is it fused?

[Morich]

This is not likely to be on the generator side of things as that is 110 coming back and the 12volt is more likely the problem when not charging.
There is a generator cable on the left side of the coach battery disconnect but it is how the 12volts gets to the generator to crank/start.
when looking at that disconnect relay, there should be a silver can looking gizmo called a mode solenoid and that is what connect the chassis battery (with alternator) on the left side to the coach battery cable on the right side.
Click this snip for better view!


I've marked the path for chassis battery in green and coach battery in red.
the blue marks the wiring that controls this solenoid. There is a switch near the dash called various names like boost, aux, etc.
When we hold this dash switch or when the ignition is hot like when the engine is running, 12volts comes down to the solenoid on LR. ground is also brought down on FM but ground is also found at the mounting screw where FM is tied down. Double grounding!
When there is 12volts on the small lug with LR, it goes through the solenoid coil and to the ground. That closes the big contacts from one big lug to the other to connect the two battery groups together. That charges the coach as we drive!
Coach battery also goes to the disconnect relay and if it is closed, on to the coach fuses and the generator starter solenoid!


but the common problem is the solenoid takes a lot of abuse from arcing every time we start the engine and they tend to burn and corrode the contacts!
You CAN do some testing before saying this IS the problem.
If you have a helper push the dash switch or start the engine, these contacts are heavy enough to hear or feel the solenoid move. Thump! If you have a meter on the right side big lug, it should be showing the coach battery voltage. When you hear/feel the thump, that coach battery should change and match the left side where chassis battery is connected.
Rev the engine and both left and right voltages should jump up and down with the engine RPM. That shows they are connected together!

However, one other point can get involved as this battery cable going to the coach batteries has to be good, clean, and connected! Keep in mind we can put it in here but if the cable is dirty, it may not get to the battery post at the other end!

Hint?
If the breaker panel is in the way, rather than fighting to get it out, you might save some trouble if you run a long wire in to make contacts with the large lugs to see if it is trouble with the solenoid or maybe just dirty cables stopping it getting to the battery. You might save some major hassle getting the breakers out of the way??

[Decuct CoCo]

I've had the same problem with chassis battery not charging from generator and house batteries not being charged from engine alternator when driving..

My solution was to install a Battery Isolation manager aka BIM..
As luck would have it one was offered for free through Amazon Vine account..
It's bi-directional, in that which ever source charge rises above 13.3v all batteries are charged
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CQTQ3H7N

It's 1/6th the price of Precision Circuits' Battery Guard AutoSelect that is touted on this and other RV forums..
https://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com...lation-manager

[RichP]

OK. I assumed the one marked generator was to the engine generator/alternator. I’ll need to check again tomorrow to see if I’m getting a charging voltage when the engine is running. Both solenoids are working. I just fixed the yellow lead that connects to the fuse on the disconnect one. Thanks for the guidance.

Originally Posted by Morich

This is not likely to be on the generator side of things as that is 110 coming back and the 12volt is more likely the problem when not charging.
There is a generator cable on the left side of the coach battery disconnect but it is how the 12volts gets to the generator to crank/start.
when looking at that disconnect relay, there should be a silver can looking gizmo called a mode solenoid and that is what connect the chassis battery (with alternator) on the left side to the coach battery cable on the right side.
Click this snip for better view!
Attachment 188480

I've marked the path for chassis battery in green and coach battery in red.
the blue marks the wiring that controls this solenoid. There is a switch near the dash called various names like boost, aux, etc.
When we hold this dash switch or when the ignition is hot like when the engine is running, 12volts comes down to the solenoid on LR. ground is also brought down on FM but ground is also found at the mounting screw where FM is tied down. Double grounding!
When there is 12volts on the small lug with LR, it goes through the solenoid coil and to the ground. That closes the big contacts from one big lug to the other to connect the two battery groups together. That charges the coach as we drive!
Coach battery also goes to the disconnect relay and if it is closed, on to the coach fuses and the generator starter solenoid!


but the common problem is the solenoid takes a lot of abuse from arcing every time we start the engine and they tend to burn and corrode the contacts!
You CAN do some testing before saying this IS the problem.
If you have a helper push the dash switch or start the engine, these contacts are heavy enough to hear or feel the solenoid move. Thump! If you have a meter on the right side big lug, it should be showing the coach battery voltage. When you hear/feel the thump, that coach battery should change and match the left side where chassis battery is connected.
Rev the engine and both left and right voltages should jump up and down with the engine RPM. That shows they are connected together!

However, one other point can get involved as this battery cable going to the coach batteries has to be good, clean, and connected! Keep in mind we can put it in here but if the cable is dirty, it may not get to the battery post at the other end!

Hint?
If the breaker panel is in the way, rather than fighting to get it out, you might save some trouble if you run a long wire in to make contacts with the large lugs to see if it is trouble with the solenoid or maybe just dirty cables stopping it getting to the battery. You might save some major hassle getting the breakers out of the way??

[Morich]

A bit of explanation on the generator may help. The 12 volt cable going to it ends on the starter solenoid on the generator as that lets it crank. Much the same as the RV engine has a solenoid on the starter.
But the output wiring which is the 110AC the generator produces goes to the back of the load center on many RV and into a converter.
You may want to look at the drawings for your specific RV here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ram/Wiring.htm

Three different models but I suspect they are all near the same on this part.
The big heavy cord plugs into Ac at the post or I think you will have an outlet to plug in to get generator power?
That cord goes to the load center on the left side where you have the main breakers which then feed the smaller sub breakers for AC. There is also a breaker that feeds both the frig and converter. Second from right, I believe?
Inside this box the wiring splits going to the frig and also to the converter built into the back of this equipment.
That converter uses AC to make the DC. Some goes to the fuses for various parts and the excess goes to the batteries to charge them.
Click this snip to get a better view or go direct for the big picture of the load center.


The breaker for the frig also controls the input to the converter but they are often just tied together inside and not always obvious if we don't watch the labels!

Good luck on the chase as it can get funky to follow if not used to looking at it for a long time!

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by Decuct CoCo

I've had the same problem with chassis battery not charging from generator and house batteries not being charged from engine alternator when driving..

My solution was to install a Battery Isolation manager aka BIM..
As luck would have it one was offered for free through Amazon Vine account..
It's bi-directional, in that which ever source charge rises above 13.3v all batteries are charged
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CQTQ3H7N

It's 1/6th the price of Precision Circuits' Battery Guard AutoSelect that is touted on this and other RV forums..
https://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com...lation-manager

Those are two different items performing different electrical functions, re-read the descriptions. The circuit breaker from Amazon is just that, a re-settable circuit breaker.
The Precision Circuits unit is: https://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com...nager-RevF.pdf

[RichP]

I still don’t follow how the diesel engine/alternator charges the coach batteries while driving. I’m getting 14V on one side of the battery mode solenoid, but that only connects to the coach battery when the dashboard boost switch is depressed. What is the path for the alternator to charge the coach battery?

Originally Posted by Morich

A bit of explanation on the generator may help. The 12 volt cable going to it ends on the starter solenoid on the generator as that lets it crank. Much the same as the RV engine has a solenoid on the starter.
But the output wiring which is the 110AC the generator produces goes to the back of the load center on many RV and into a converter.
You may want to look at the drawings for your specific RV here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ram/Wiring.htm

Three different models but I suspect they are all near the same on this part.
The big heavy cord plugs into Ac at the post or I think you will have an outlet to plug in to get generator power?
That cord goes to the load center on the left side where you have the main breakers which then feed the smaller sub breakers for AC. There is also a breaker that feeds both the frig and converter. Second from right, I believe?
Inside this box the wiring splits going to the frig and also to the converter built into the back of this equipment.
That converter uses AC to make the DC. Some goes to the fuses for various parts and the excess goes to the batteries to charge them.
Click this snip to get a better view or go direct for the big picture of the load center.
Attachment 188482

The breaker for the frig also controls the input to the converter but they are often just tied together inside and not always obvious if we don't watch the labels!

Good luck on the chase as it can get funky to follow if not used to looking at it for a long time!

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by RichP

I still don’t follow how the diesel engine/alternator charges the coach batteries while driving. I’m getting 14V on one side of the battery mode solenoid, but that only connects to the coach battery when the dashboard boost switch is depressed. What is the path for the alternator to charge the coach battery?

There is supposed to be an isolation solenoid that activates when the alternator is putting out power to charge the coach batteries, then the switch is used to activate the solenoid when the engine is off. It sounds like the solenoid is bad, possibly the wrong one, or miswired. Have the coach batteries ever charged from the alternator?

Aaron

[Morich]

Check back to the drawing in post #2 as it shows that part. There is a wire LR that has two ways to get power. One is when we push a dash switch and hold it OR when the ignition is on, power is also on LR, assuming all is correct.
So that means if pushing the dash switch makes the solenoid close, it should also close when you start the engine.
Same path on wire LR for both situations!

Playing the game of "what if" we could say that there is a break in the path from ignition hot to where it joints the wire LR which comes off the dash switch and that WOULD stop the coach being connected as LR would not get 12Volts on that small lug LR!

Odd things can happen and it is possible so a check is in order.
Some of these suggested tests will depend on what is easy and what is too much trouble to do the test, so your choice on how to go from there!
If you can get to the solenoid without a lot of trouble (like taking a breaker panel out!) You can test the wire LR is getting power when the engine runs?
When you get power on LR, you should expect the left and right big lugs to read the same voltage as they should be connected inside the solenoid!

Another way to go is to start with a jumper from the left big lug ( Chassis ) to the small center lug. This puts power from the chassis side connection directly on the wire LR and we expect to hear the solenoid "clunk" and the two batteries to connect!

But one of the more frequent problems with this solenoid is burned/corroded contacts and they can be hit and miss on making a good connection! This is just a metal rod inside a coil of wire which makes an electro magnet when powered. On the end of that metal rod is a large metal piece that is much like a large washer. That washer can jump up and land on good spots or it can rotate just a bit and land on corroded spots and not make contact.
Drives one crazy intermitant thing!
If you put 14 in on left, add power from some source, dash or direct, that power should show up on the right big lug when they connect together well!



If you do not get 12volts at the solenoid center lug when engine is running, that puts it into the chassis ignition wires and we get no info on those as chassis folks hold tight to that info.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by RichP

I still don’t follow how the diesel engine/alternator charges the coach batteries while driving. I’m getting 14V on one side of the battery mode solenoid, but that only connects to the coach battery when the dashboard boost switch is depressed. What is the path for the alternator to charge the coach battery?

Like Aaron says the battery isolation solenoid performs both functions. If yours is original it's a good chance it's done. Winnebago used an inexpensive Trombetta brand but most will agree that the Cole-Hersee 24213 is superior https://www.amazon.com/Cole-Hersee-2.../dp/B005K2429I rated at 200 amps continuous and with silver tungsten contacts.

[Morich]

the idea of which brand solenoid gives you the best value is always a point to consider.
But it pays to look before leaping and that comes with taking a look first!
Folks say your OEM solenoid was cheap and it only lasted 15+ years and say you should pay around $75 to get a better one that will last longer? Maybe you want one that lasts 30-40 years? That might make it last until the RV is nearly 45-50 years old?

But on the other hand if a $20 will last another 15 years, is that enough for you to feel good about it? For me, I certainly DO NOT plan to take it to the grave with me, so the 15 year one fits me better as it is such a simple item!
If I'm around when I'm 95, I'm okay with having somebody change it because I damn sure will not be driving!



This is what you get inside either one, so you get to choose which is the better value for you!
If you have a three post currently with both LR and FM wires and want to change to four post, just move the FM wire to the second small lug instead of under the mounting screw!

[bigb]

The Trombetta is $54 so $18 more for the Cole Hersee with much higher rating and better contacts. One must also consider the usage, maybe the RV sat un-used a lot while maybe the new owner is using regularly. Also maybe the switch to Lithium may be in the future meaning higher charging amps. You don't really need the BIS if you get a DC-DC charger but some, like me, may choose to leave it in place and feed the DC-DC from the output of the BIS plus retain your boost function. Or maybe not even get a DC-DC charger. Without the DC-DC the BIS can see up to 80 amps of charge current and with a DC-DC still 20-60 amps depending on which unit, and if you choose to keep the BIS in the circuit.
With the OP having a 2007 View likely on a 2006 chassis which is considered the best Sprinter ever made by many it will probably last quite a long time. My Trombetta lasted 11 years AFAIK, unless a PO changed it. At the time I was running FLA.

[bigb]

My preceding post was not meant to poo-poo Richard's observation, just to suggest that all things be considered. Another issue that has been a huge pain for me in the last decade or so is the ever cheapening of the same product as manufacturers constantly try and save money, so the same item you buy today with the same well known name may not be the same product and may not be made in the same factory.

A good example is the auto parts industry, it used to be that you could have some assurance buying the OEM factory part but now even those can be a crap shoot. Not so great for Joe Consumer who just spent 4 hours changing a water pump only to have it fail days later.

Names like Timken and Dorman used to mean something, not so much anymore. (Timken offers choices of bearings made in countries all over the world with corresponding prices, the China ones are about half the cost of the Mexico versions)

[RichP]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

There is supposed to be an isolation solenoid that activates when the alternator is putting out power to charge the coach batteries, then the switch is used to activate the solenoid when the engine is off. It sounds like the solenoid is bad, possibly the wrong one, or miswired. Have the coach batteries ever charged from the alternator?

Aaron

That was it. Bad solenoid. Owned this thing since it was new and always thought the three post relay was only activated by pushing the dash switch. Learn something new everyday. New relay coming today.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by RichP

That was it. Bad solenoid. Owned this thing since it was new and always thought the three post relay was only activated by pushing the dash switch. Learn something new everyday. New relay coming today.

Glad to see it got figured out. I have been messing with a wide variety of equipment over the years. It took a while, but I finally learned to look at the simple stuff first then work my way down the line.

Aaron

[Morich]

One of the problems in dealing with RV is that there are many cases where an item is called by several different names and Winnebago is just as prone to doing this as any.
when you mentioned "isolation solenoid" it took me a bit to sort out that we were both talking about the same item as the name I picked up from the online info is "mode solenoid"!
Even the name of the dash switch has varied so often that it is hard to tell a person to look for any specific name on the switch on their dash as it may be so far different than the year before!
Even the terms like solenoid and relay for the two items side by side can vary so much that it throws doubt into the game!
Getting past the language difficulties can be the first hard part!

I just looked at one definition of solenoid and get this bit of info that may explain the difference? But not a place I'm going when trying to explain where to find and fix it!

Click this snip to get a better view!