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Old 09-04-2023, 02:30 PM   #1
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ATS Parallax 5070 issue 2004 Adventurer 35U

I was camping this past weekend running my 5550 generator with the basement air on my 50amp 2004 Adventurer. I started smelling something and shut things down. Took some looking. Turns out one of the load wires on the ATS 5070 got hot and melted its barrier block. I pulled the ATS and removed the damaged barrier block. I ordered two replacements from Digikey. I have enough slack to strip the load wire back to clean wire. One wire on the ATS that goes back to one of the ATS relays needs replaced. The short pigtail has a O-ring terminal at the relay end. Not sure what kind of wire/gauge to replace it with an add the O-ring. Looks crimped on an maybe soldered.

I'm considering buying a ATS 503 and fix the 5070 as a spare if I can make a new pigtail. I have the dimensions on the 503. I want to verify there are no space issues. I checked the barrier block screws a year or so ago. Assume they needed tightened and that's what caused this and I missed checked them this year.
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Old 09-04-2023, 10:30 PM   #2
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I'm glad you caught it before burning down your MH and perhaps your family.
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Old 09-05-2023, 05:38 AM   #3
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My thoughts exactly. I detected the smell an quickly shuts things down. Once fixed I’m going keep very close eye on the load an routinely check the screws on the ATS.

Basement air was running for a long time an it was hot out. I’m going to see what leg on the load feed of the ATS melted. I want make sure both compressors on the basement air are ok. I’m hoping the screw was loose on that ATS leg.

From what I see the ATS 503 size would make it hard to get the wire feeds in. I’m going to look at the ATS 501. Smaller footprint.
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Old 09-06-2023, 07:44 AM   #4
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Ended up ordering an ATS503. I talked to Lichtsinn RV and they said the replacement for the ATS5070 is the ATS503. They gave me the Winny part number. 167050-01-000. Pricy $686.40 plus shipping. I found a new one in open box on ebay for just over $200. Should fit in the compartment. The long side goes in up and down.
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Old 09-13-2023, 05:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cef2lion View Post
I was camping this past weekend running my 5550 generator with the basement air on my 50amp 2004 Adventurer. I started smelling something and shut things down. Took some looking. Turns out one of the load wires on the ATS 5070 got hot and melted its barrier block. I pulled the ATS and removed the damaged barrier block. I ordered two replacements from Digikey. I have enough slack to strip the load wire back to clean wire. One wire on the ATS that goes back to one of the ATS relays needs replaced. The short pigtail has a O-ring terminal at the relay end. Not sure what kind of wire/gauge to replace it with an add the O-ring. Looks crimped on an maybe soldered.

I'm considering buying a ATS 503 and fix the 5070 as a spare if I can make a new pigtail. I have the dimensions on the 503. I want to verify there are no space issues. I checked the barrier block screws a year or so ago. Assume they needed tightened and that's what caused this and I missed checked them this year.


A few days ago I had the same problem, as you, with the same type of ATS, the 5070.

It happened while was using the air conditioning with the Quiet Diesel 7500 electric generator. I had checked the ATS a few weeks before, deoxidizing the contacts and tightening all clamps.

I'm also looking for a replacement terminal block, right on Digikey but I haven't found anything satisfactory yet.

Did you find it?

Could you send me a code or part number?

Regards!!!!!!
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Old 09-13-2023, 07:38 PM   #6
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Good to hear from you! I did find the barrier blocks on Digikey. I bought two. Exact match. Part number 364-1224.-ND. Total was under $50. I have not put it back together yet for a spare. I need to source some wire that burned on the 5070 itself. Short pigtails marked 8 gauge I think.

I did buy a ATS503 on eBay. New Open box. Seemed ok when installed. Worked on shore power which is default. Didn’t on generator. Noticed small circuit board wasn’t attached main board and stand offs broken. I sent it back a bought a new one. Not here yet.

My big concern is what caused this? RV could have caught fire. The white neutral 6/3 to the circuit break box was burned off at the ATS. But why? I was running the Oman 5500 with the basement air most of the day. I did have the hot water tank on electric in the morning to shower. Found out the water heater thermostat was detached from the tank. Prior to switching water heater to electric I had it on propane as other were sleeping. I noticed it wasn’t shutting down. Heating constant. Didn’t use it after I figured that out. Then noticed the smell and shut generator off. Found the ATS issue when we got home.

Nothing showed signs of burning/melting in the breaker box or other terminals on the ATS. Points on ATS look ok. Concerned about installing the ATS503 an. Not know what the issue was. Never had an issue prior an had checked the screws on the 5070 about a year ago.
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Old 09-13-2023, 08:33 PM   #7
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Thanks to you I found 364-1224.-ND. Thank you very much!

You're right, it looks like the original. I was hoping to find a similar item but made of ceramic instead of plastic, which would be much more resistant and fireproof. Unfortunately I didn't find it.

I was also thinking if it wouldn't be useful to tin all the terminals of the cables that go to the ATS. I believe that false contacts could be avoided more easily. Or am I wrong?

It would be interesting to hear the opinion of an expert, I'm just a radio amateur who dabbles in basic electronics.

I noticed that the ATS503 costs even less than $200 on some sites, but I prefer to repair well the old ATS5070 and still keep it.

The same thing happened to me, for years I had no problems with the ATS, when I thought of checking it and tightening the terminals here was the damage, after about 3 or 4 months.

An expert electrician told me you should never settle for tightening the terminals, you should also check that the cables are secure and try pulling them several times and tightening them again.
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Old 09-13-2023, 11:55 PM   #8
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I was also thinking if it wouldn't be useful to tin all the terminals of the cables that go to the ATS. I believe that false contacts could be avoided more easily. Or am I wrong?
Properly sized ferrules designed for this purpose might be more effective:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=wire+ferr...s_ts-doa-p_1_8

73 (KJ6SVX)
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Old 09-14-2023, 06:05 AM   #9
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Are you sure the ATS you saw online was the 503? There is a 501 which costs less. I saw a 503 for sale by Walmart but the picture was of a 501. I decided on the 503 as it’s newer I think an a bit Beefier. The terminals are father apart. They are grouped different than the 5070. The 503 terminals are grouped by L1, L2 and neutral. I had to get some slack on the feed to the circuit breaker box a from the generator. My 2nd 503 is due in today. Should be quick install as I already had the 1st defective one installed and wiring adjusted. I coated the wiring leads with a special electrical paste.

On the failure. No breakers had tripped. Not sure if the 5070 terminal block failed from age a caused the wires to arc? The two big loads being used was the AC an hot water tank. No signs of issues at breaker box. White neutral at ATS is what burned/melted off.

How many actually have been checking the terminal block screws regularly? I have owned my 2004 since 2010 a didn’t check till 2019 an they were ok. Adding a photo of the damage. I have the terminal blocks to repair the 5070 but some of its wire pigtails need replaced. I have not found a source for that kind of wire. Also would like to keep there color codes.
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Old 09-14-2023, 07:18 AM   #10
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Exactly the same joke! Same point, same effects.

I am of the opinion to give the cable a good cleaning with a wire brush, use a good flux, protect everything with a colored heat-shrink sheath and then carefully tin the terminal.

It costs less and should last for years to come.

The ideal would be to find ceramic terminal blocks of the same size and use those.

I don't understand why the ATS is hermetically sealed.

Wouldn't it be better to make ventilation holes?

Or even insert an electric fan that automatically turns on after a certain temperature?

The costs would be negligible and overheating would be avoided.

If I'm wrong tell me.
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Old 09-14-2023, 08:10 AM   #11
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Good read on the ATS5070

ATS5070 Generator Automatic Transfer Switch
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Old 09-14-2023, 08:52 AM   #12
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I was curious, did some digging, and found several references, mainly on other forums, advising against tinning:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tinn...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Old 09-14-2023, 01:15 PM   #13
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Picture of the ATS503 internals.
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Old 09-14-2023, 01:24 PM   #14
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Several point may clear some of the questions.
One is the fire hazard and venting. The design is not open to keep any fire danger down!
If there were vents, that would let dust, dirt, bugs in and also let any small fire get out! So sealed is better as the chances of the wire heat from current is figured in and will not start a fire due to fuses/breakers to cut power when it reached a dangerous level!

But the current flow is not likely what caused the insulation, etc to melt. What is more likely is the arcing from a connection which was not solid. That arcing is much like an arc welder and no wires and few connections will stand up to an arc welder!
Consider what arc welders can do to hard metals like steel and you can see that the easier melting/softer copper, etc will not hold up if heated to that point!

And that also brings in why solder is not a good idea on wiring. It is made of a combo of different metals which do melt at lower temps like lead! That leaves the idea of putting a metal like solder at a point which may heat as a really bad idea.

If you do any solder work, you may have noticed that you heat the solder and let it run between the strands of copper without that copper melting?

If we put solder on the copper ends, it does feel like it is more solid but when the idea is to keep a solid connection even if heated, the solder will melt and run before other parts. When that happens the end becomes smaller and the mechanical part of the connection is more likely to fail!
It becomes a death spiral as the heat at a somewhat loose connection melts the solder. That melting makes the connection even less secure and it heats even more until it really begins to arc enough to burn the copper itself out of reach of the arcing!

Notice how one wire is damaged much more than the others? That is often the one which was arcing the longest or worst! Notice the good thing is that the insulation itself did not support combustion and did not work it's way out of the safety of the metal box. There was nothing inside the box like paper or wasp nests to actually support a fire, so burning down the RV is not likely to happen as long as the box is closed and tight!

Why do the wires work loose? Several points can be a factor.

One is how much unsupported/ attached wire is involved. Keeping the wire that has to be loose to put in the screw attachments short is important. When we drive we put a lot of stress on any wires that are not well attached and the longer that loose wire, the more it can flop up and down! Every time it moves it deforms the end slightly and at some point it is no longer connected really solidly!
Think of the wire as being pulled on every time we hit a bump and the longer the loose run, the stronger the pull?
Short runs of wire make it harder to repair if it fails but short runs are more likely to last longer, so keep it short.

Then it is also likely that most wires we repair are not going to be torqued down to specs! DIY often skips some of those small points!!
Long wires, bumpy roads, screws not at correct torque and lots of years later, things can go wrong!

After twenty years, the gremlins do find a way!
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Old 09-14-2023, 04:17 PM   #15
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Installed the 503. Working as expected on shore and generator. Going to watch it close an keep after the terminals going forward.
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Old 09-16-2023, 05:58 PM   #16
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Great contributions! Thank you all.
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Old 09-17-2023, 10:37 AM   #17
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To add a bit to what I was saying about solder at the wire ends?

While I am against using solder, that doesn't mean we have to run totally new wire from the transfer switch to wherever the other end of the wire might be!
The point is to not use a metal that melts so easy or so soft it gets reshaped at the point where we screw it down.
Lead, silver, and some of the other metals mixed in to make a good solder that melts easy with a soldering iron is not what we want to make it resist any heat. We want tougher metals where it needs to be tough and strong!

If we have trouble and the end is melted off a wire like in the pictures in this post, there can be short runs of wires and those would be logical to replace the whole wire.
But if one of those wires would mean replacing a wire embedded in the RV and 12 feet long, there we might look at other options.

There will be some which are far better to cut the damaged section off as far back as practical and simply add one or two feet of new wire to replace the damaged.
It's a judgement deal but a new short section is fine. But we should also go with some type of good connectors where we splice this new to the old.
Maybe go for a few dollars more on the repair and get industrial grade crimp connectors, just not the cheap and easy one?

Sometimes it gets down to being cheap can be really expensive if we cut the corners too sharp!
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