No power to leveling system

[Sweeney]

Hey all,

New to the forum and also new to RVs

I recently got a new to me 99 adventurer 35c

I brought it home yesterday to prep for the season, and I cant get the leveling system to power on. In park, parking brake down, and tried both engine on/off and all key positions. I've checked all the basics of fuses and switches that I could find, the parking brake lights up on the dash when engaged so I'm assuming the switch is working, verified the plugs are seated on the board yet still nothing when I try to turn it on, no lights or noises etc. All batteries are brand new and fully charged. its a HWH leveling system, I'm not totally sure what one yet but based off my searched today I believe its a 200 series, I will confirm when I get home today. I've read somewhere that the slide and leveling system share a main relay, if that's the case the relay should be fine as the slide does work.

I plan to look more into it when I get home today from work, but was hoping to get some direction from someone who knows a little more about motorhomes then me haha.

[Morich]

Congrats to you for doing a good job of getting much of the needed info into the first post! We may not be able to help but you've given us the best shot, so we can take a look at what we can find!

This is where we are into an area where the info from Winnebago shows us what they add but not what the jack builder has done, so we get a big gap!
It is likely you can get down to better info on the jacks with doing a search for HWH and then maybe drilling down to model, etc. as the wiring does change over the years.
One big one on that is about fuses onboard the jack parts??? That's from a pretty vague memory and needs checked! Possible fuses on the large pump /tank section?

But I do a lot of looking at the Winnebago drawings, so might pass along some small info from those. You did a good job of getting info across to us, so does that mean you are using a laptop or full blown computer rather than cellphone access?
What I am finding is that I have been wasting my time with cutting and marking drawings to pass on to folks who can't see them to use when on cellphones!

From this drawing and dropping down to sheet 6 at lower left side:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...999/131000.pdf

I made this snip of the limited info from Winn that we get and did some markup for a couple points that may help read the Winn. drawings if not used to using them.
But mostly it seems to point to needing the HWH info!
Click this snip for best view if it works to read on your equipment or perhaps go direct? Not a lot here but passing on what I find!


Is this something you can read? Do you see note 1 that refers us to HWH for more info?
But it does indicate there is a slide relay, so you are correct on that.
Something to know if not used to the Winn. way is that they stamp ID on small wires to match the ID on drawings!


This may only help up to the connection to HWH but thought to pass it along.
They also mark wire size and colors.
To "decode" the wire ID we have this chart, listing " from" and "to" locations that can often lead to finding where to expect battery and ground!
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf

Looking at the ID at this plug for the slide operation, I see wire DY as what they call "jack sense switched ground"???/
Does that mean there is some form of sensing if the jacks are up or down that relates to the slide operation?
Wire EA seems to involve the power side to the slide.
Any chance of the jacks have to be done before or after the slide to make it work? Something fussy that is easily missed?

Sorry more questions than answers on that!! Maybe if you can find one plug under the dash it will lead to another that is more involved with the jacks as this is pretty much all slide wiring!

I sometimes think of RV repair as being an Easter egg hunt? We have to look under ALL the bushes to get the right stuff!

[Ray,IN]

First, determine the model# of your HWH leveleing system using this quick ID sheet.
Next run a search for that model# service manual, free downloads.
One item used to ID a system is the size and shape of the control box, it will have at least 5 fuses.
My control box just lays on the floor under the dash left of the steering column.
All HWH systems require clean tight ground connections. MIne is behind the reservoir/pump/motor/solenoids assy.

[Sweeney]

Morich, Thanks for all that, Yes I can see your drawings, I'm on a PC at work and a combo of my laptop and cellphone when at home.

Ray, I confirmed last night that I have a 200 series, plan to download and print the drawings today and look back into it some more today after work. Multiple people have mentioned a controller but the little I have looked online is seems the 200 series doesn't have a controller, I will know once I print the manual.

A couple things I do know. I am not getting 12v ACC power to the board on wire 6120, the troubleshooting guide for the HWH 200 series simply says to trace wire back and repair.

I am also having an issue with the ACC power to my radio

While trying to see if these were related, I found that the ACC wire for the radio and the 6120 wire for the HWH system do have continuity, and for some reason when the radio switch is on aux the radio fuse blows under the dash. what's odd is when the switch is on main, the fuse does not blow, its only when switched to aux, however there is no ACC power to the radio in either position

I called it a night there, I will be trying to make a little more sense of the winnie drawings over the next few days to try and see where the jack power (6120) is tied into the RV as well as try to see what could be causing the fuse to blow. I may also explore physically tracing 6120 back this evening, until I can get a friend who can read these drawings efficiently with me.

[Morich]

good deal on being able to see drawings and that makes it possible to pass info better!
Also it sounds like you are in better position than many for looking at the online info!

One small point that may help to consider is the way we can use the wire ID chart, as we can work it in "reverse" at times!
Rather than have an ID and look up what it does, we can also hit "CTRL and F" at the same time to bring a dropdown for a search term.
If we want to look for wire ID for the radio, we can then scan down the list to sort for the wire ID that looks like it might go to the radio power switch on the dash!
This is something of hunt and peck but it lets us do quicker work at times when we need to find things.
With 29 total hits for "radio" I dropped the wire ID going to speakers as not likely what I wanted.
Cut down to four wire ID (GT,LS,WN,WP) I find I can often run down the lines going from one page of the drawings to the next page, searching for those ID!
Sometimes I find it helps, sometimes it is easier to go for spotting the plugs by their location, but just another way to search the the "golden egg" that I'm hunting!

This drawing sheet 4 at about F8, I find the radio power switch and think this is the one which chooses coach or chassis battery as a possible place to start chasing the power for radio. Maybe a check of wire LS at that point?
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...999/131000.pdf

NOTE: Consider my ideas to be just that! Ideas to be followed or discarded as they are not reliable until checked on the RV!
One thing about internet info? It is really easy to get rid of it as we don't even have to wad it up! My trash can overflows!

[Ray,IN]

Good luck with your easter egg hunt. Richard is an expert with Winnebago drawing searches. I hope you find the radio short when on Aux power, I do think you're right, the problems are connected.
It might even be a loose/corroded connection_somewhere. Don't forget the other half, the ground half.

[Sweeney]

Not much of an update today as I only got to spend about 30 mins on it last night.

I did however dig out some tools and using a power probe I was able to manually power on the Leveling system and verify it does in fact work, so that's refreshing.

Today at work I printed out the drawings and started doing some highlighter tracing, although I do have the original copies in the coach, its nice to lay them out and trace with a highlighter.

There was an aftermarket XM antenna I started deleting last night, going to finish that up and start doing some tests tonight, however I don't suspect ill get very far as we are going out to dinner tonight, I have plans Thursday evening as well, but I have set Friday evening aside to solely troubleshoot the RV so hopefully I will have a solid update then, fingers crossed maybe even a solution.

[Morich]

Suggestions for when and if it feels right?

There is a big solenoid called a mode solenoid. It is what connects the chassis and coach battery together. When we have RV engine running as a way to get some charge from alternator to coach batteries.
The other way is an "aux start" switch near the driver and when it is pushed it sends power to the coil of the solenoid to close big contacts on coach and chassis battery tying them together for a "jump start" if chassis battery is weak!

I don't have a layout of the switch contacts for the radio switch but I "feel" it uses the same power as the Aux start switch!
Two ways to test the fuse powering these two things, radio on coach power and the aux start switch to move the solenoid! You might look at the fuse and it seems to be under the dash pod.
OR if you are in a quiet spot and push the aux switch, do you hear the solenoid thump as it operates? It is a heavy duty thing and often will make an audible thump each time you press the aux switch!

Idea is if the solenoid moves, no need to look at the fuse they share!

But that fuse is possibly easy enough to get to and check? Does your Dash pod over the speedometer, etc. lift up to expose a group
of fuses?
There are different layouts for Ford, Chevy or other chassis but looking much the same for this purpose.
If you see a fuse panel ( odd looking, maybe?) like this under the dash pod, this might be a fuse to test?

Click this snip for best view!


Note that coach battery disconnect has to be ON!!!

When getting that round tuit!

[TigeDuner]

Hey guys,
I had a 2001 35U (sold last month) and had a similar issue with our jacks. I found several fuses just inside the front grill next to the jack/slide pump. These fuses were each located in individual in-line fuse holders. One was so bad that the blades on the fuse were pointed and almost completely corroded away. I assume this was from moisture that got in the fuse holder. I changed the fuse holder and fuse and all was good. I am not sure how different our two models are, but it is worth a check.

Best of luck,

TD

[Sweeney]

Small update,

I'm no longer blowing a fuse when I switch to AUX for radio power, and the radio does in fact turn on now. I am not 100% sure what was the fix for that, I did a few wiring cleanups/fixes all at once, there was a common positive terminal hanging freely under the steps that I was worried was shorting to the frame so I fixed that, and then cleaned up the radio harness by removing a XM antenna receiver, and at some point the cigar lighter was tapped into the radio ACC so I removed that as well.

However with the switch in Main, there is still no power to the radio ACC wire or the leveling system, I took my power probe and sent 12v to the 6120 wire(leveling jack power wire) and the radio powered on, so I'm fairly certain that the 2 issues are related.

I'm running out of time as we are going on a small trip 4/19-4/21 so I ran a temporary wire from radio ACC to the leveling board and it now works when the switch is in AUX, I was able to put the coach up on the jacks Saturday and make sure they work for our upcoming trip.

Something else happened on Saturday too, While I was cleaning up all my tools Saturday I had decided to listen to music, so I switched radio power to AUX and about 15mins in, it sounded like I was losing signal to the radio station, so I switched to Bluetooth, and it still sounded like that, then shortly after I lost all sound, the radio was still powered on, and you could see that the song was playing on the radio screen, but I had no sound. I verified the coach batteries didn't die, and then even started the engine and verified that I was charging at the batteries, yet still no sound, Almost like the amp for the speakers has its own battery and it died, I'm also not even sure if there even is an amp for these speakers, on the diagram it looks like its direct from the radio to the speaker, so maybe the radio is just going bad? so I'm unsure what to do about that at the moment, Seems like I will have my work cut out for me when we get back from this trip.

MoRich, everything you have been posting has felt right and pointed me in some sort of direction, so thanks, I apologize for not acknowledging that, your info is greatly appreciated. Friday, I had 2 friends over helping, both who understand electrical systems and diagrams on a much higher level then me, and they were on the same track as you, looking at the same areas you mentioned, so you are on to something.

TigeDuner, I checked those fuses, That was a similar issue for someone else that I found while googling, now that I have power to the board, the leveling system works as it should, It seems like this has turned more into I don't have ACC 12v radio power issue now.

[Sweeney]

Originally Posted by Morich

Suggestions for when and if it feels right?

There is a big solenoid called a mode solenoid. It is what connects the chassis and coach battery together. When we have RV engine running as a way to get some charge from alternator to coach batteries.
The other way is an "aux start" switch near the driver and when it is pushed it sends power to the coil of the solenoid to close big contacts on coach and chassis battery tying them together for a "jump start" if chassis battery is weak!

I don't have a layout of the switch contacts for the radio switch but I "feel" it uses the same power as the Aux start switch!
Two ways to test the fuse powering these two things, radio on coach power and the aux start switch to move the solenoid! You might look at the fuse and it seems to be under the dash pod.
OR if you are in a quiet spot and push the aux switch, do you hear the solenoid thump as it operates? It is a heavy duty thing and often will make an audible thump each time you press the aux switch!

Idea is if the solenoid moves, no need to look at the fuse they share!

But that fuse is possibly easy enough to get to and check? Does your Dash pod over the speedometer, etc. lift up to expose a group
of fuses?
There are different layouts for Ford, Chevy or other chassis but looking much the same for this purpose.
If you see a fuse panel ( odd looking, maybe?) like this under the dash pod, this might be a fuse to test?

Click this snip for best view!
Attachment 188732

Note that coach battery disconnect has to be ON!!!

When getting that round tuit!

I can hear the thunk when hitting the switch, so it sounds like its working, I know exactly where those fuses are, that was one of the ones that was blowing in the beginning, all fuses are good, and they also have voltage in the panel.

[Morich]

Chasing the radio power a bit further and with the info that the solenoid moves when the dash switch is pushed!

Big point is that the power to move the solenoid and get it to thump comes from a wire LR, a small wire at center lug of solenoid!
LR feeds power to move solenoid! Power on LR goes through the solenoid coil inside and to the mounting screw for ground! It thumps!


So another drawing shows why I feel that is important.
Power from the fuse for wire LS is the fuse you have verified but it goes two different places and two switches!

The power wire LS comes to a 9 pin connecter as marked in blue here. Then it goes to the switch which makes the solenoid thump. That tells us power is good from the fuse to and through this connector!
But it also goes to the radio power switch!
Idea being that if it gets to the aux start switch, it should also be getting to the radio power switch at two points!

This radio power switch has some spare contacts that are not used but acts as a double pole, double throw switch. That means two poles or wires get connected to two sets of two different poles or wires?
Pushed one way, Wire WN gets connected to LS and GT also gets connected to LS on the left side of this drawing. I think this is where the coach battery power is connected to the radio but fails to get to the radio!

But when we flip the toggle the other way, WN and GT get connected to LD and MK and the radio works on the chassis battery if I am following what you are finding!

I'm in doubt about how this is actually working as battery and ground but that is where testing is needed to verify what I think up to this point!
Looking at the chart of wire ID, I'm not sure what they mean accessory power and memory power?
I would not have expected them to put 12Volt on both lugs from LS?
If/when you get to that point, maybe you can figure out what is not right?
I'm lost as to why it shows putting battery on two lugs and the way this drawing shows seems kind of strange!
The plug on second picture above meets this next plug!



But this is the last plug where the Winn. wiring meets the radio wiring plug!


There is something wrong and I feel it is in these switches and plugs but I can't get it straight without testing to find where something is not getting across at some point!

I feel it's in this area but not able to point any closer!
I'm not an audio/ video guy and hate it as I'm so unable to test much of it. That also leaves me guessing about the memory accessory power definitions!
Vague ideas but few facts as I like chasing battery and ground better!!
Best of luck and I'll say a little prayer!

[Sweeney]

This is good, gives me some more ideas to test. I like how you draw on these drawings, because I was reading these wrong and in my last tests was chasing power at the connector on sheet 2 H12, but what your saying about power coming in from LS makes more sense.

Also, I can probably explain a little on memory power and accessory power for radios.

Memory(yellow) is a constant 12v power source that is not switched, and this in turn holds the clock time, radio presets, settings etc.

Accessory power(red) is what actually powers the radio when (in standard cars) the key is set to ACC and or ON

I don't know when Ill have the time to poke around more, but Ill be sure to update when I do.

Have you been able to find where the Leveling system (wire 6120) actually ties into the coach?

[Morich]

I like to find the source/fuse and chase it out from there as Winnebago does change the wire Id at each item it works through like a switch, etc.
In this case, I went to the radio plug where the Winnebago ID let me go to the ID chart and sort out things like the speakers to avoid them and gradually get down closer to what I felt I needed for power. Mostly simply because I found the radio before I found where the power came from!

One more bit of info that may be needed is what chassis is your Rv on? Ford, Chevy, Freightliner?

Have done no looking at the jacks questions! Simple minded pursuit of one problem at a time! Let me do some looking on that! Sounds like you need to go play for a while and maybe it looks better after a rest!

When in crisis and your brain begins to smoke, go have a cup of coffee!

[Morich]

Very few connections showing on the Winnebago drawings. Likely they thin of the jacks as a chassis item rather than a coach item and they are less prone to showing us much on chassis?
But this plug does seem to be direct power of some sort to the jacks and pretty straight off what I think is a fuse panel. Odd looking, so I'm not sure it is actually fuses or what it is I'm seeing!
It may be that I am looking at the wrong chassis as well, so just wondering if you know of anything that looks like this drawing! It has a flasher for turn signals if that would be a way to spot it?



Hunting and pecking but that 14 gauge purple wire should be feeding quite a load so maybe feeding lots of power to the jack pump?
As I said, it's an odd way to draw it for a fuse but maybe it makes sense if you see something like it?
It runs numerous other places on the drawings if it looks like it fits what you have?

No rush on this end, just if and when it feels right to take a look again!

[Sweeney]

I am on a Ford chassis

And yes, a break from more then just this is needed, although I'm sure ill end up tinkering with it at the campground this weekend haha.

I know where that fuse block is, however, its different on the Ford chassis, from what I can tell on the HWH 200 series wiring diagram, there is only 3 connections from that system into the coach, one is directly to the battery, one is to the parking brake switch, and one is the 6120 wire in question that is a remote power wire labeled "ACC switch power"

[Morich]

I will send what little confusing info I'm finding and let you get to it as it feels right!

I'm not really finding the good stuff that would show where the Winn and ford wiring actually meets the HWH wiring and not info on that specific wire! I did find two likely looking power feeds that "might" help as one seems to be full time and the other off the ignition.
This drawing and on sheet 2 (s2 and S2 F2) for what they call frame 2 as the second page of sheet 2! They do it as if we laid the sheet out with frame 1 next to frame 2, etc.!
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...999/131000.pdf
If we can find a fuse/breaker box that has mostly chassis items in it and often a different spot than coach items? On front engine gas, it is often out front above the radiator?
If you can find this fuse, it may need a check? Is this saying power comes from the Ford wiring to the Winn here or is that backwards?
This wire seems one to check as it seems to show direct off power?
!



If power comes in from Ford on KE, it then goes to the Winnebago fuse here.


Power in on KE and out on WN? Or reversed?
The only mention of connections to jacks I am finding is this. It shows KE and LD as two different power feeds. so might be a problem with one or the other but without finding what connects to the wire you mention, I have no info!

[Sweeney]

First trip of the year was a blast, we ran into quite a few issues and now have a list of things to fix/go over on the RV. My Wife and Son absolutely loved the trip and we already booked a second trip the end of next month, so I have 40 days to fix a number of things.

We have a couple water leaks, one at the toilet, and one at the kitchen faucet, the AC units were not kicking on but were humming, and the slide out awning ripped bad enough that I had to cut it the rest of the way off during the trip.

This thread was originally started for help with my electrical issue on the leveling system, so I wont be posting much during those repairs and prep for the next trip, plus, this is much more in my element and I can handle the repairs and modifications pretty easily. Once I get these issues fixed and have time, I will get back to working on the root cause of the wiring issue. I'm hoping I have some time to at least run a few tests before the next trip.

[Morich]

Sometimes we look back at a trip and it boils down to, "at least we didn't get hurt!"
So many scary things that almost caught us that we have talked that we should have started writing a book way back!

You've got a real bear involved with your problem, just due to the way three companies are involved. Chassis info is hard to get from those folks, jacks are a bit easier but terribly hard to find how to match their info to the really small amount we get from Winn.

That last post above seems to be as close as I can find to a point where HWH and Winn wiring meet.
I'm hoping maybe you can find that point and see it meet the HWH wire you've mentioned, but that is as much hope as anything else!!
Sometimes we can get lucky?