Power Gear Leveling System Troubleshooting

DNC · 08-31-2021, 04:59 PM

I've had this 2016 Winnebago Journey for about a year and a half and have never had any problems with the leveling system until yesterday. Yesterday I pulled into a campsite that I've camped in before and turned on the Power Gear leveling control panel and hit the "auto level" button. Everything seemed to work as normal, it began deploying the levelers but when they hit the ground they stopped.

When working properly, the front raises then it levels side to side. At the end of the process you can hear it fine tune and then stop. Yesterday it never got to that point, it just quit when the jack pads contacted the ground or shortly thereafter. I checked the reservoir fluid level and looked for leaks but all seemed normal. My coach requires the engine to be running to level; I cranked it this morning and tried it again with no results.

It has to be fairly level before it will auto level and it is fairly level at this site.

I also tried leveling it in manual mode, it raised the front a little but that's all.

Any suggestions for troubleshooting would be greatly appreciated.

Jim_HiTek · 09-01-2021, 10:45 PM

First I would check the battery voltage that is going to the controller...when the engine is running. It should be at least 12.6 volts. Even better if it's at 13.8 or more. One important test is to be measuring the voltage when the 'Lower' button is pressed. If it drops below 12.6, then start looking for a corroded or loose ground or battery connection to the Power Gear manifold and controller. If it's okay, I would shut off the Power Gear at the control pad and than remove the fuse. Let it sit for 10 minutes than replace the fuse and power it up and test. That's to reset the brain, they all have them these days.

If that didn't do it, I have an electronics degree so I'd take the control board out to inspect and perhaps test a component or two. Paying particular attention to the contacts looking for loosened contacts or corrosion. If you don't want to tackle that, then after those other tests, if you didn't find anything, like a bad ground or corroded connector to the controller, might be time to call a mobile tech.

DNC · 09-10-2021, 04:03 PM

Jim,

Thank you for some excellent advise. I verified that the lowest voltage input to the controller with the engine running is 12.7 V when the levelers are trying to lift the MH and 13.6 V when they are inactive. I removed the control pad for about 30 minutes and reinstalled it. I also verified continuity between the control pad and the controller. And, as stated in my original post, have a full hydraulic fluid tank.

I called Lippert and discussed the issue with a couple of their technicians. I was told that it is likely the controller and I should replace that first. I ordered one today $527 with tax and shipping. If that don't fix it, I was told I might need a wiring harness, but the technician said I could check the continuity between the control panel and controller to rule that out. If the controller isn't the problem, he said it would be the control panel. That's another $500+; I hope the controller fixes it. One of the techs said that it is usually the controller and a new controller should fix it. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again for your advise; it gave me the right starting place to diagnose the problem.

Jim_HiTek · 09-10-2021, 04:12 PM

Can you post a picture or three of the board? PM me if you can't post it here. I'd like to take a look at the front, back, and close ups of components too if possible.

Don't order a new one yet. Note that you can usually raise or lower the jacks without the controller with just a few push button switches. Much less expensive than that ridiculous $500+ they are asking.

Note that the control pad isn't the same as the controller which is usually a separate box near or on the manifold. That's the one you should remove power from for 10 minutes at least. (Doubtful but the control pad could house the controller...I don't know for sure).

If you find any numbers on the board itself, just put that into Google or at eBay or Amazon.

Also, someone saying, "Oh, it might be the wiring harness" is a tip off they have little idea of what they are doing.

DNC · 09-12-2021, 05:14 PM

Jim:

I didn't notice your reply until I had it all put back together and the RV garaged. I can take more photos, but thought I would post the one I took when I had it exposed. The control box is located in the belly storage compartment mounted upside down on a plate near the celling of the storage compartment (under the floor near the center of the RV).

Would it help if I take it out and take more photos? And what other photos would be helpful?

Since the unit would not level automatically if it thinks it is out of or low on hydraulic fluid, it makes sense that it might not complete the leveling process if it thinks its low on hydraulic fluid. The fluid tank has a cap with two wires attached to it. I assume this is a device to gauge how full the tank is. Seems to me that this could be faulty, but since it wouldn't level on manual either, maybe the technician figure this would not be the culprit.

I appreciate your advise. I ordered the control box before I say your response, but I'm sure I can return it if it is unopened, so I'd like to investigate further if there's more that I can do.

DNC · 09-12-2021, 05:20 PM

Jim:

Here's a photo of the control box.

[IMG]http://https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/members/226031-albums411-
picture2529.html[/IMG]

DNC · 09-12-2021, 05:22 PM

Jim:

That was not a good link. Here's a link to the photo of the control box.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...031-albums411-
picture2529.htm

Dennis

Jim_HiTek · 09-12-2021, 06:57 PM

Sadly, neither of the links work.

DNC · 09-13-2021, 07:23 AM

Jim, See if this one will work. If so, I'll take some more photos and post them when I get a chance. I copied it and pasted it into my browser and it worked for me.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...albums412.html

Jim_HiTek · 09-13-2021, 10:06 AM

Yes, that picture link worked. Thanks.

Looks to be in pretty good condition. Did you try inspecting and spraying all the connection pins and sockets? It's not too late to test that.

Do you see that many of those pins have slots? Make sure they all look the same, if any are squeezed together, use a small bladed screw driver to pry the pin's bifurcations apart. On the mating connector, be sure that the 'barrel' type female connectors aren't too wide. Squeeze them together a little bit if they seem that way.

Then test. If it's still testing bad, inspect the wiring bundles as far into the frame works as you can, looking for scuffs, scraps, or tears in the insulation that might cause shorts to ground or other wires. Repair where necessary. If you haven't blow any fuses, then a short is unlikely so look for open circuits.

If still testing bad, then open that box, I see 4 Philips screws holding the cover. Remove the board. Take a picture of the board, top & bottom and post.

I did a check and that assembly isn't available at eBay or Amazon new or used ATM, but there is one here for $300: PG Control Module

Note that at that link they show a drawing of those connectors and their functions. Using that drawing, you could first use it as a guide for testing, and then if needed make up your own push button setup to control the jacks. And if that happens, then during that push button usage period you could peruse all these 3,000 RV salvage yards and pick up a used control box...note that control box model number goes back to '02! I'd say you should be able to pick one up for under $100 from a salvage yard since they're so common.

DNC · 09-14-2021, 03:55 PM

I haven't tried spraying the pins, but they are in a very clean environment; Winnebago put a protective cover over the control box. I didn't check to see if any appeared loose; The connections all seemed tight when I pulled them apart. I'll add that to my list of things to check.

The wiring bundles are all wrapped in split flexible PE conduit and fully taped. As far as testing bad, I've not found any problems but I've only tested the four wires from the touch pad to the control box and verified that they have continuity.

DNC · 09-15-2021, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim_HiTek

Can you post a picture or three of the board? PM me if you can't post it here. I'd like to take a look at the front, back, and close ups of components too if possible.

Don't order a new one yet. Note that you can usually raise or lower the jacks without the controller with just a few push button switches. Much less expensive than that ridiculous $500+ they are asking.

Note that the control pad isn't the same as the controller which is usually a separate box near or on the manifold. That's the one you should remove power from for 10 minutes at least. (Doubtful but the control pad could house the controller...I don't know for sure).

If you find any numbers on the board itself, just put that into Google or at eBay or Amazon.

Also, someone saying, "Oh, it might be the wiring harness" is a tip off they have little idea of what they are doing.

Jim:

Here's a link to my gallery with several photos of the controller and the touchpad.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...albums412.html

I opened the control box and took photos of the insides. Also flipped over the touchpad and took a photo of the backside of it.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to know that the float switch is working. I checked it open and got no continuity and closed shows continuity.

Any suggestions of how I could analyze the control box are appreciated.

Dennis

Jdhargis · 09-15-2021, 07:16 PM

Mine stopped working on our last trip. Everything seamed normal. The reservoir from the time we bought it new was always down about an inch. I got to reading the manual to it and the reservoir is supposed to be full to the top. After filling it, everything was back to normal.

BSchulz · 09-16-2021, 07:31 AM

I had the same issue and after months of troubleshooting and hair pulling found a skinned wire behind the steps that grounded out when the steps moved or the RV shifted position. New controller, new control pad new, float switch all did not help. (Recommendations from vendor)
Retaped the wire and shielded the bundle better and all is good.
Ps had the same response from the vendor. They did not take the controller back. Still have the brand new controller.

DNC · 09-18-2021, 08:29 AM

I replaced the control box to no avail. I'm not going to start replacing the other components as suggested by the Lippert technicians.

I did some more reading in their troubleshooting manual and noticed that the dump valve could cause a jack to not extend. I'm not completely sure I understand how this all works and was wondering if someone could tell me if I'm headed down the wrong path.

As I understand it, the dump valve opens to allow fluid to flow back to the reservoir, effectively dumping the fluid that has been pumped out of the reservoir back in the reservoir. The other valves, there are three on my rig, allow fluid to be pumped to the jack cylinders.

I bench tested the dump valve and it doesn't appear to be working as it should as described in Lippert's troubleshooting guide.

After reinstalling the dump valve that appears to be defective, I tried leveling it again. This time the pump began to run as normal then it started making a noise which I don't quite know how to describe; sounded like it might be trying to pump air and fluid and it would not lower the levelers.

I think I need to install a new dump valve, but would like opinions as to whether a bad dump valve would cause the problem. Again, the problem is that the cylinders extend to the ground but will not lift the rig.

DNC · 09-22-2021, 08:29 PM

I didn't receive any comments concerning replacing the dump valve but decided to replace the valve since it didn't respond to >13 volts when I bench tested it. I bench tested the new valve and it seems to be working as described in the troubleshooting guide.

After replacing the dump valve, I turned on the system at the keypad but shortly after powering it up it went off and the "low voltage" light came on. After reading in the trouble shooting guide about potential causes of low voltage and the touch pad not coming on, I check to see if there was >12 volts at the pump solenoid. There was no power at the pump solenoid coming from the batteries.

I was able to find a wiring diagram for my rig that showed a 200 A fuse between the batteries and the pump solenoid. I located and removed the fuse to find that it had blown. I bought a new fuse at a local auto parts store. After installing the new fuse, the touchpad powered up, went through its diagnostics and seemed to work normally. I tried leveling in manual mode but immediately quit because the pump or pump motor was making a noise. Sounded like marbles being chopped up in a blender.

I figure the motor or the pump is bad, but thought I'd ask if anyone out there has heard a similar sound coming from their pump and if it resulted in purchasing a new pump, motor, or both.

I'm now thinking that the initial failure was in the dump valve and that the motor may have been damaged by me repeatedly trying to level the coach with the dump valve open pumping fluid back into the tank. Any opinions or suggestions are appreciated.

DNC · 11-02-2021, 06:59 PM

I finally got my leveling system working. To recap, the initial problem was that the levelers would go to the ground but would not lift the coach. Lippert said to start diagnosing the problem by replacing the control box; if that didn't work replace the wiring harness; if that didn't work replace the keypad. I replaced the control box which didn't fix the problem, but I stopped short of replacing wiring harness and keypad because they seemed to be working fine.

After doing a lot of thinking and reading I decided to bench test the dump valve and learned that it was malfunctioning. I replaced the dump valve only to find that the pump motor was making a lot of noise and it blew the 200 amp fuse going to the pump motor. I purchased a new motor. When I installed it it sounded like it was in a bind and blew the fuse. I removed and reinstalled it taking care to make sure the coupling between the motor and the pump was properly aligned.

Its working fine now. So the initial problem was the dump valve and the motor apparently got too hot when I kept trying to level it when the dump valve was not working. I ended up spending $500 on a control box from Lippert that I don't need, but I'll hang onto it; I may need it in the future.

Wyatt · 11-13-2021, 06:58 PM

Even though you were sort of on your own on this one, I appreciate you taking the time to update us all. Now I know what to do and not do if I have a similar issue. Thanks!

DNC · 11-14-2021, 02:15 PM

Wyatt, thanks for the kind words. I've benefitted greatly from responses to issues raised on this forum.

I have an update; the system seemed to be working fine, but the right rear piston has stopped lifting the coach. I put it in zero mode and was trying to level the coach so that I could set the auto-level but it wouldn't raise the right rear. It goes to the ground, but doesn't have the force needed to lift the corner. The front and rear left levelers are working fine.

I thought it might be a bad valve, so I swapped the valves going to the rear levelers to no avail. I'm hoping the problem is air in the line and that I can bleed it. Got tired of working on it the other day so I haven't tried to bleed it yet.

I'll post the answer when I find out what's causing that one corner not to lift.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or advise from folks who have had this issue.

Wyatt · 12-01-2021, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNC

Wyatt, thanks for the kind words. I've benefitted greatly from responses to issues raised on this forum.

I have an update; the system seemed to be working fine, but the right rear piston has stopped lifting the coach. I put it in zero mode and was trying to level the coach so that I could set the auto-level but it wouldn't raise the right rear. It goes to the ground, but doesn't have the force needed to lift the corner. The front and rear left levelers are working fine.

I thought it might be a bad valve, so I swapped the valves going to the rear levelers to no avail. I'm hoping the problem is air in the line and that I can bleed it. Got tired of working on it the other day so I haven't tried to bleed it yet.

I'll post the answer when I find out what's causing that one corner not to lift.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or advise from folks who have had this issue.

I’m on that page with you. I’ve never had to troubleshoot mine so I’m not much help, but I’d try what you’re suggesting…