Leveling jacks taking forever!

jim1eddoc · 09-22-2013, 05:05 PM

2011 Vista 30' last trip out I timed the right rear leveler that took a little over 6 minutes before the light went out and the shrieking sound stopped. Front 2 were in less that one minute and the rear left approx 5 minutes. Anyone else have the same time lag?

1ciderdog · 09-22-2013, 05:34 PM

My jacks come up faster - as far as the screaming sound - on mine the alarm does not sound if I have the ignition key in the auxiliary position. Might try that if you haven't.

jauguston · 09-22-2013, 05:52 PM

Try spraying the shaft with a spray can of silicone. One of mine (HWH) gets slow and a spray speeds it right up.I got the spray at NAPA.

Jim

VSPA · 09-22-2013, 06:54 PM

I had a 2011 Vista 27P and never had that kind of problem.

nbounder · 09-22-2013, 08:41 PM

Me too - I spray those jacks religiously every time we break camp. So far, they always zip right up there. (I exaggerate a bit). The tip on the aux ignition position is most valuable - On more than 1 occasion I have been tempted to rip out and destroy that control panel where the beep emanates. Thanks, ciderdog!

John Hilley · 09-22-2013, 08:43 PM

I would wipe it down good with a clean cloth and then spray with silicone. It could be weak springs. It's worth a try to try to clean and lubricate it.

steved44 · 09-22-2013, 09:05 PM

The springs get weak, and cold fluid doesn't help any. We wipe ours down with silicone spray too and that helps a lot. We did have two new springs put on our front jacks last year and it made all the difference in the world.

Wayne M · 09-22-2013, 09:22 PM

Does the 2011 even have springs. My 2008 Winni does not, it is hydraulic return.

If you are hearing it screech you may have air in the system. Besides wiping the pistons down when they are extended, on level ground extend the jacks as far as they will go. Yes, this will raise the wheels off the ground, but as soon as they are extended on level surface do an "all up," this should help force some of the air out of the system. You may have to repeat but only once or twice. When the jacks are retracted check the reservoir and make sure the fluid is up to specification after each recycle of the jacks extended all the way and retracted.

Happy trails.

Wayne M · 09-22-2013, 09:28 PM

I believe your manual will state to have the engine running so that the alternator can assist in powering the hydraulic system. Same for the slides.

The only time I'll use the ALT Ignition is if they have settled and I just need to bump them a little.

Check the manual.

Yes, silicone is the preferred method but my manual also states that transmission fluid, Dexron, that is used in the hydraulic system can be used to wipe down the piston. I'll place a little dab on a cloth and wipe them down and use a dry cloth to wipe over what I have dabbed on. There will still be a residue on the piston.

Jeff and Cheryl · 09-22-2013, 09:59 PM

With the HWH system, hitting the store button opens the valve that keeps pressure on the cylinder. The jacks are retracted by springs. Running the engine will not speed up the retract. In some instances starting the engine will cause the HWH system to go into "travel" mode and the jacks may not be fully retracted. HWH advises that it will take 5 minutes or more for the system to fullly retract and shut off. This time will be longer if the weather is colder, as the fluid, bring colder, will have greater resistance. Hope this helps.

RickO · 09-23-2013, 09:06 AM

I have merged the two threads you began on this topic to comply with our forum rules about duplicate posts.

As mentioned, HWH jacks can take a while to retract and it's quite common.

I make sure I keep them clean and lubed with silicone spray... although I do think that ATF is preferred. Make sure that your jack pads haven't collected any dirt or gravel on top of them. This adds weight and makes them harder to retract.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff and Cheryl

In some instances starting the engine will cause the HWH system to go into "travel" mode and the jacks may not be fully retracted..

I didn't think it was possible for the HWH system to go into "travel mode" until all jacks were fully retracted.

That sure sounds pretty dangerous to me.

Rick

Jeff and Cheryl · 09-23-2013, 09:41 AM

Rick,
I've never tried this too see what would happen. However, when switching the key position from the left (accessory mode) to the right (start the engine) the travel light comes on. If the jacks are even a little bit down the warning buxxer goes off.

Catcoach · 09-23-2013, 09:52 AM

On my 05 Vectra I have the same problem. My manual from HWH is very specific not to use any lubricant. that being said a few weeks ago was camped next to a fellow who had just traded a coach like mine and he said he had the same issue. he sprayed the shaft with WD 40 before retracting and he felt that they were faster. Also my drivers rear is always the last to clear on the monitor. I tried the WD 40 and it seem to help some, but the reality is they take a long time to retract and of course it always seems longer when you are wanting to get on the road. Now I pull in my slides, push the store button and go about doing my other chores to get ready to travel. Seems to make my stress level go away.

RickO · 09-23-2013, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff and Cheryl

Rick,
I've never tried this too see what would happen. However, when switching the key position from the left (accessory mode) to the right (start the engine) the travel light comes on. If the jacks are even a little bit down the warning buxxer goes off.

Now you've got me thinking too.

I "think" that my green travel mode light goes off if any of the jacks aren't fully retracted but I'm going to have to check it now to be sure.

Rick

FIRE UP · 09-23-2013, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1eddoc

2011 Vista 30' last trip out I timed the right rear leveler that took a little over 6 minutes before the light went out and the shrieking sound stopped. Front 2 were in less that one minute and the rear left approx 5 minutes. Anyone else have the same time lag?

Jim,
The saga of "Slow retraction" of hydraulic levelers/jacks has been around for quite some time. Some coaches take longer, some less. There's lots of reasons. In a hydraulic system, like HWH, POWER GEAR, KWIKEE, LIPPERT, and more, powering a system by pump is considerably stronger and faster than the retraction side which, is "spring" powered only. Now, there are as usual, exceptions to the rule. There are some, all be it, very few, that are powered up, or should I say the "retract mode" too.

Even when the fluid is cold, the pump overcomes all the resistance and powers the jacks down in the same amount of time it does if the fluid is considerably warmer. But, on the retraction side, and springs are the only thing doing the work, long distances of fluid travel, cold fluid, several fittings, turns, bends in hoses, and more will slow down that retraction process due to the fact that the springs are the only "power" that's pushing that fluid back to the main reservoir.

Spraying the cylinders or, wiping them down with a lube of some sort, as you have read, may help. Those cylinders/rams have wiper rings/seals on them that removes everything that's on them anyway. One more thing, while I'm certainly no expert on the operations of them, I've read that the longer the solenoids are held in the open position, to allow for full retraction of all or, even any one particular jack/ram, the hotter it gets and, the sooner that heat will cause early demise of that or, those particular solenoids.

If I think that ours, an HWH 625 Automatic System, is taking a bit too long, I hop out and retrieve one of my leveling blocks and my shovel and use the shovel as a lever and the problem jack(s) are pushed right back up in a matter of seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff and Cheryl

With the HWH system, hitting the store button opens the valve that keeps pressure on the cylinder. The jacks are retracted by springs. Running the engine will not speed up the retract. In some instances starting the engine will cause the HWH system to go into "travel" mode and the jacks may not be fully retracted. HWH advises that it will take 5 minutes or more for the system to fullly retract and shut off. This time will be longer if the weather is colder, as the fluid, bring colder, will have greater resistance. Hope this helps.

Jeff,
I'm not sure what you mean by "keeps pressure on the cylinder" but, there is no keeping of any pressure on any cylinder when in the retraction mode. If you pressure on any cylinder, the springs could not do their job. And, you stated that in some instances, starting or running the engine will cause the HWH system to enter the "travel" mode without the jacks fully retracted". Well, I've read our ops, service and tech manual several times and the HWH systems, at least the 625 system, is designed to have several redundant counter-measures to make sure that the retraction operations are done COMPLETELY before it enters the travel mode.

I have started my rig up several times both at home and in camping conditions and, unless I manually push that "Store" mode button, that rig will not do anything to start the operations to move towards the "travel" mode. Based on the manuals, all of them, I've read nothing about warnings of possible initiation of "travel" mode if the engine is started or ran, during the retraction mode. And, as you know, at least in the HWH systems, the engine MUST be running and, the "store" button must be pushed in order for the bags to start filling and, the jacks to begin to retract, both at the same time.

I'm not arguing with you here, just stating that if your rig has entered the "Travel" mode prematurely and your jacks are not fully retracted which, should be indicated by the red LED(s) at the possible problem jack(s) on any occasion, than maybe an inspection is due. Just a suggestion here.
Scott

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickO

I have merged the two threads you began on this topic to comply with our forum rules about duplicate posts.

As mentioned, HWH jacks can take a while to retract and it's quite common.

I make sure I keep them clean and lubed with silicone spray... although I do think that ATF is preferred. Make sure that your jack pads haven't collected any dirt or gravel on top of them. This adds weight and makes them harder to retract.

I didn't think it was possible for the HWH system to go into "travel mode" until all jacks were fully retracted.

That sure sounds pretty dangerous to me.

Rick

Rick,
It IS dangerous and I explained it above. Plus, even if one is not cognizant of the fact that the jacks have not fully retracted, pushes the parking brake button to release the brakes, there's safety measure built into that too that will redundantly tell the jack system to retract and enter the "Store" mode. The Store mode must be fully complete and, all the red LEDs must be out before the system can activate the travel mode. And like stated above, the HWH systems have many built in features to eliminate that possibility. But, as anything man made now days, I suppose that even the most tactical safety measures can goof up now and then.
Scott

Jeff and Cheryl · 09-23-2013, 05:43 PM

Fire Up,
Leaving the impression that I thought the pressure in the lines was closed when the retract button is activated was not my intent. Rather, the retract button releases this pressure and this allows the springs to pull the jack pads into the up position.
The red lights indicating a jack down condition would be a dead give away to look for problems. As has been mentioned previously, the DS rear jack can be a problem from time to time. Slow retraction and the most likely to come unretracted by about 2 inches. Previous threads on this have indicated that as the fluid warms during the day it expands. Since that jack is the farthest from the reserve tank the line to it has the most fluid, more fluid equals more heat expansion, which then pushes the ram out a little.

FIRE UP · 09-24-2013, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff and Cheryl

Fire Up,
Leaving the impression that I thought the pressure in the lines was closed when the retract button is activated was not my intent. Rather, the retract button releases this pressure and this allows the springs to pull the jack pads into the up position.
The red lights indicating a jack down condition would be a dead give away to look for problems. As has been mentioned previously, the DS rear jack can be a problem from time to time. Slow retraction and the most likely to come unretracted by about 2 inches. Previous threads on this have indicated that as the fluid warms during the day it expands. Since that jack is the farthest from the reserve tank the line to it has the most fluid, more fluid equals more heat expansion, which then pushes the ram out a little.

Jeff,
Roger that Sir. HWH has that covered too. If any expansion is encountered, the second that a jack starts to travel downward due to that expansion, and, triggers one of the LEDs, the computer is notified and, the appropriate solenoid valve is opened to allow that pressure to subside. If, the pressure continues to either rise, or is not drained off, I believe in a 30 second period, then the alarm system it put into effect.

Yes, I too have had the DS jack be a bit stubborn, along with it's sister, the PS one too. If at home, I have an appropriate sized block and a 2"x2" x 4' lever handy near by for just such an occasion. Our jacks have been pretty darn dependable as far as the retraction issues are concerned. But, every once in a while, one or more will throw a temper tantrum and decide it's not going to go up all the way.
Scott

David K · 09-24-2013, 07:05 PM

As a bit of clarification here on this post. Two years ago, HWH finally came out and said to use WD40 as the lubricant on the extended jacks --- they said DO NOT USE Silicone as it will destroy the seals. They said to use the WD40 and DO NOT WIPE IT OFF -- let the seals do the wiping as the jacks are retracting. This was a change as in the past they had said to not use anything. Also, if it is the HWH hydraulic leveling system, the hydraulic system is not running as stated above but, when you start up the system and tell it to "store" the jacks, a valve is opened and the springs retract the jacks forcing the hydraulic fluid back into the storage tank. You should leave the system on until it turns itself off which allows all fluid to be back into the tank. Just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

jim1eddoc · 09-26-2013, 11:24 AM

thanks one and all. Guess i'll not sorry about the 6 min. delay with the rear jacks and find something to read while I sit and wait.
JIm

jauguston · 09-27-2013, 09:43 AM

When I purchased our coach used all of the jacks were slow-two had to be levered up to get them all the way up. I contacted a local hydraulic repair shop and asked if they worked on HWH RV jacks. They said yes they do a lot of them and have found the reason most are slow retracting. They have two phenolic bushings inside them and the hydraulic fluid makes them swell up and bind the shaft. They put the bushings in their lathe and take a small amount of material out of the inside of the bushings thus freeing up the binding. They did all four of mine and they retract promptly now.

Jim