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Old 05-21-2019, 10:56 AM   #1
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Trojan Trillium Lithium?

I see the Trojan Trillium Lithium batts are now available. Has anyone tried them? I'm curious what else might have to be changed to use them....
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:07 PM   #2
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Hi, I moved your post out of someone else’s thread on a different topic. Hope this helps you find answers to your question.
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Old 05-23-2019, 02:25 PM   #3
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From Trojan: Trillium features automotive-grade safety components, CAN-bus communication and an integrated state-of-charge indicator. The electronic controls allow for voltage compatibility for all 12V, 24V, 36V and 48V applications including the ability to use most existing lead-acid chargers.

So if that's true I'm really interested. I need to investigate the temperature issue and if they have improved on that as well.

Ok found it:

4.10 TEMPERATURE
The recommended operating temperature range for Trillium batteries is -4F (-20C) to 140F (60C). Note that
battery life diminishes as temperature increases, while capacity increases with temperature.

I'm liking the specifications.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:15 PM   #4
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What’s the cost?

I found it $1075 for 12.8v drop in replacement.
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Old 05-29-2019, 07:38 PM   #5
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Those look promising, although hard to find. It looks like while they're designed in the US, they're not manufactured here (couldn't find where.) I also couldn't find their warranty, if any. They warranty their AGM's for 2 years, maybe these are the same.
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Old 05-30-2019, 06:29 AM   #6
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Like most lithium drop in batteries - probably made in someone's basement or a tiny warehouse in an obscure country. Not yet a mature industry at all. Give it a few years.
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Old 05-30-2019, 09:35 AM   #7
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Guys here in Colo can get them and have them on order. Still $2k for the set and my rep suggested just buying the 6v golf batteries until they have been used a bit and tested. I went with two T145 plus bats which slide right down in the OEM opening for $500. Quick and easy.
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Old 05-30-2019, 01:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayak73 View Post
Like most lithium drop in batteries - probably made in someone's basement or a tiny warehouse in an obscure country. Not yet a mature industry at all. Give it a few years.
Well not quite. Most all LiPo4 modules (cells grouped into standard banks) are made in China. In Factories, that sell to dozens of wholesalers. Battery companies buy these modules and combine them and other parts, such as BMS circuits, into drop in batteries.

The Trojan site says assembled in the US from imported materials.

This is pretty much how Lead Acid batteries are manufactured as well.

I do agree that the industry is evolving and things could change over time. But it’s likely that the place and basic methods of manufacturing will remain the same.
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:54 PM   #9
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Agree, most lithium is in China and there are just a few variants of the cells, LiFeP04, from which most are made, "assembled". So who does the assembly is key, Tesla does a good job obviously. I don't want to step on toes here because I know many members have moved to these as viable solutions and are pleased with them. In light of current situations involving our commerce with China I don't expect a whole lot of advances or price drops any time in the near future. We stopped mining lead in the USA several years back, severely restricted, so now most is imported. Indeed here in Georgia we have a Trojan factory which makes Trojan batteries, one of several scattered across the USA, using imported lead. That's a tad bit different scenario than importing the small cells which are already built and wiring them together with controls. Heck, if you are good and like to play with these things you can build your own bank of lithium to fit your own needs and space and assemble your own controls to monitor and control their operation. More importantly if you do that you will be able to isolate and pull the invariable bad cell that develops and repair the bank. Tons of articles on the net showing how and which cells are "best" or preferred. Really sharp folks can buy used Tesla banks from a few places which collect them from wrecked vehicles and build the controls etc to use in their rig. That would be a good way to get a quality assembled bank of lithium cells today. Today I have flashlights, weed eater, hedge trimmer and other devices all using lithium batteries. Actually the flashlight has the "quality" preferred cell to build these drop-in banks. One of those failed in two months for the hedge trimmer, replaced by the good company immediately. Their advice is not on the advertisement for the products.
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Owens View Post
From Trojan: Trillium features automotive-grade safety components, CAN-bus communication and an integrated state-of-charge indicator. The electronic controls allow for voltage compatibility for all 12V, 24V, 36V and 48V applications including the ability to use most existing lead-acid chargers.

So if that's true I'm really interested. I need to investigate the temperature issue and if they have improved on that as well.

Ok found it:

4.10 TEMPERATURE
The recommended operating temperature range for Trillium batteries is -4F (-20C) to 140F (60C). Note that
battery life diminishes as temperature increases, while capacity increases with temperature.

I'm liking the specifications.
If you look a little farther in the Spec Sheet you should find that the batteries must not be "charged" when the battery temp is below freezing. Using (discharging) is fine down to a little below 0*.
If you have the batteries in an enclosed compartment or in a cabinet inside your RV, outside freezing temps will have less affect. Besides most folks don't use there RV in really cold weather.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:46 PM   #11
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A good way to learn about the serious packs being introduced in RVs is to Google Search about the Winnebago Travato with 48 volt lithium battery pack and all the technology that is associated with a serious Li battery solution for RVs.

There are a lot of problems with trying to drop in a Li battery solution into an existing RV that was designed to use flooded lead acid or AGM lead acid batteries. Those who just drop in a Li battery have problems that can be solved by changing out converter charger, the battery isolation manager, and solar charge controller , but many don't even realize it.
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:58 PM   #12
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Randy,
You are correct but many are doing it now. If I went that way in our View I would definitely start with a disconnect from chassis POS to the Trombetta/Cole Hersee. That way I would not burn up the alternator if I started the rig with the lithium pack way down - it's like a short, no resistance, but I could always turn it on to use the boost switch if the chassis battery was down. Move the Trik-L-Start to the chassis POS side of the cutoff switch - still works.

Most solar controllers now support lithium, mine does. The converter/charger will probably recharge the lithium pack too fast. The Relion 300AH preferred charge rate is 50amps so my PD9245 will work, for a while. Yes, you can blast em up to full charge really fast but that will indeed shorten life cycles. Put in a smaller appropriate lithium charger next to inverter. The only other thing I would do is insulate them and put a tiny heater pad to turn on below 32F if I wanted to charge them. Really if you want the max utility of the lithium just accept a shorter life cycle and recharge them fast but to me that's a lot of green that turned brown really fast.
Right now Battle Born looks pretty good, Relion as well. There's some marketing hype about that 48V pack WGO is using, like "run your AirConditioning" etc., well...not very darned long you won't. Math is still math for a 13.5 or 15k unit. Not considering the air conditioner thing I think it looks pretty good for a cool weather, no generator possibility. Hot weather I think I would still look for the power pole camp.
Seriously like mentioned before, the unit lithium cells all come from just a few places like - in China - the big deal is who put them together best and who has the BMS that will really last 10 years. Battle Born feels good enough to warranty 10 years. Relion has a lot of sizes and shapes to pick from in varying AH capacity. I would stay with 300AH just to actually enjoy being in the rig dry camping.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:26 AM   #13
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just after my last post I came across an article about the surplus of used lithium from electric cars and buses. It was focused on industry requirements on recycle of those mostly but spin off articles were linked to show how the "super charge" many need to use is shortening the life cycle of those high dollar packs to 3 years or less. Those who drive more miles per day using the vehicle need to hit the supercharge plug often. This shortens the life cycle which is resulting in a huge supply of rebuilt/surplus lithium. I suppose it will become another hot topic someday as EV use grows but it could lead to a great new market for recycle use for things like RV and solar storage. Most of the cells in those big packs will still have many useful cycles left in them, just pull out the bad ones and build up a new pack and balance it - new life.
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayak73 View Post
Randy,
You are correct but many are doing it now. If I went that way in our View I would definitely start with a disconnect from chassis POS to the Trombetta/Cole Hersee. That way I would not burn up the alternator if I started the rig with the lithium pack way down - it's like a short, no resistance, but I could always turn it on to use the boost switch if the chassis battery was down. Move the Trik-L-Start to the chassis POS side of the cutoff switch - still works.

Most solar controllers now support lithium, mine does. The converter/charger will probably recharge the lithium pack too fast. The Relion 300AH preferred charge rate is 50amps so my PD9245 will work, for a while. Yes, you can blast em up to full charge really fast but that will indeed shorten life cycles. Put in a smaller appropriate lithium charger next to inverter. The only other thing I would do is insulate them and put a tiny heater pad to turn on below 32F if I wanted to charge them. Really if you want the max utility of the lithium just accept a shorter life cycle and recharge them fast but to me that's a lot of green that turned brown really fast.
Right now Battle Born looks pretty good, Relion as well. There's some marketing hype about that 48V pack WGO is using, like "run your AirConditioning" etc., well...not very darned long you won't. Math is still math for a 13.5 or 15k unit. Not considering the air conditioner thing I think it looks pretty good for a cool weather, no generator possibility. Hot weather I think I would still look for the power pole camp.
Seriously like mentioned before, the unit lithium cells all come from just a few places like - in China - the big deal is who put them together best and who has the BMS that will really last 10 years. Battle Born feels good enough to warranty 10 years. Relion has a lot of sizes and shapes to pick from in varying AH capacity. I would stay with 300AH just to actually enjoy being in the rig dry camping.
It is going to be difficult to really "blast" lithium LiFePO4 batteries. First they will do fine on a 1C charge, but I would stay with .5C. If you put 2 100AH lithium's in an RV that is 200AH, you are really going to have a lot of solar to hit them with 200amps. Even at .5C that is 100amps. If you put in a 100amp charger running off of generator or shore power you can hit them pretty hard.
Do you have a reference that states you can't charge lithium at .5C? What I have seen is 1C is fine. https://batteryuniversity.com/index....of_lithium_ion In the link you need to scroll down to LiFePO4.

About freezing weather. It is battery temp that counts not the outside air. As long as the battery is above 32* you are fine. Lithium really lends itself to being installed inside the RV. Under the dinette or in a cabinet, and have the inverter/charger & solar controller installed right next to the battery. Now you have no long wire runs to loose power or needing extra heavy wire.

I guess now it is not just a drop in, but if anyone plans on doing quite a bit of dry camping it is better to do a quality install.

About running an air conditioner off of lithium, if you have the $$ and battery space you can install enough you can run a standard RV A/C for 3-4 hours, or if you really go big 8-10 hours. HOWEVER the real problem is how do you get all the power back into the batteries. In an off grid house with lots of roof space you can install enough solar, but RV's are limited.
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