Great read about RV Industry Quality

[lenore]

Originally Posted by macnut

As a follow up, our dealer fixed all the problems, including the water leak. Hopefully we’ll now have another couple years of trouble-free RVing. After having a few problems in the last 4 months, I have to say I’m still impressed with the schematics and info on the Winnebago site, their level of customer service even out of warranty, and also the beefed up service department of La Mesa RV in DAVIS, Ca. I’m impressed with the quality of their techs and quick turnaround on repairs and maintenance. Can’t wait to get on the road again!

I haven't been to their service department, but their communication has been terrible. We just bought our Winnebago Vita 24p and the inverter and the refrigerator have both died with the last two weeks. They said they would not be able to get us in till December, but I pushed and the best I could get was November 22. I called Corporate Winnebago and they sent me a new inverter that I installed and cleaned up the manufacturing mess. The refrigerator has blown the overload protection circuit (Residential refrigerator) and I even repair it, but am nervous as to why it blew in the first place. I am running it now until my appointment to see if it dies. Terrible that I buy a brand new sprinter chassis and cant go anywhere because I cant keep fresh food in it. Hopefully my experience with La Mesa is as good as yours when I take it in.

[cthiggy]

FWIW, La Mesa in Port St. Lucie Florida has a legendary reputation for ineptness. Unable to meet any maintenance schedules nor perform competent repairs. We purchased our last two Winnebagos from Camping World. Their sales organization is pretty good, but trying to get unscheduled repair help while on a trip is virtually impossible. Imagine: you are on a trip, hundreds of miles from home when a problem surfaces (even on a new RV). Without exception, every Camping World facility we stopped at refused to even look at the problem but graciously?? offered to schedule our vehicle in sometime in the next MONTH! This has been going on for years. You would think Camping World would recognize the problem with their Maintenance facilities and do something about adding Techs to handle unplanned service requirements. Don't hold your breath.

[lenore]

So is the general story is to repair everything yourself? Maybe the manufacturer should pay me for time and materials. Sorry guys, I know these rigs fall apart going down the road, but the third party items that failed in mine is crazy.

[cthiggy]

Speaking just for myself, Yes. I carry sufficient tools in our RV to overhaul the engine. Plus, one can often find needed repair instructions on the net. However, this does not always win the day. If one is broken down in the boonies and needs parts...... that can/will complicate the situation.

In addition, returning the vehicle to a dealer for repairs may be more time consuming than it is worth because you may have to make several trips due to poor quality.

Oddly enough, we have experienced a necessity for "on the road" repairs twice by independent techs which proved far more timely and reliable than similar experiences from dealers. If the need for help arises, check with the nearest campground for suggestions.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by lenore

So is the general story is to repair everything yourself? Maybe the manufacturer should pay me for time and materials. Sorry guys, I know these rigs fall apart going down the road, but the third party items that failed in mine is crazy.

As a new RVer you have a choice - suspend your travel plans and find a dealer that can work on your RV someday, find an independent RV Tech that can work on your RV TODAY but probably not paid for by warranty OR find a way to fix the issue yourself (or live with the issue).

Some choose to go the dealer route. They wait weeks to get in, many times wait weeks for a repair and also many times don't get their problem resolved. A current trip or a future planned trip ruined.

For most of us fixing things ourselves or living with the issue for a while until we can find a fix is the norm. If it's something we can't or don't want to do we hire an independent service person because they don't have month long waits. But we bare the cost of that ourselves.

We don't like it. We aren't happy about it. But we bought the RV to use and we learn to take matters into our own hands so that we can use it as intended.

I wish RV dealer service - especially warranty service - was the same as car dealer service. But its not. And since I can't make it so, I plan to do whatever it takes to keep my travel plans moving forward.

[AZAspect]

Originally Posted by creativepart

As a new RVer you have a choice - suspend your travel plans and find a dealer that can work on your RV someday, find an independent RV Tech that can work on your RV TODAY but probably not paid for by warranty OR find a way to fix the issue yourself (or live with the issue).

Some choose to go the dealer route. They wait weeks to get in, many times wait weeks for a repair and also many times don't get their problem resolved. A current trip or a future planned trip ruined.

For most of us fixing things ourselves or living with the issue for a while until we can find a fix is the norm. If it's something we can't or don't want to do we hire an independent service person because they don't have month long waits. But we bare the cost of that ourselves.

We don't like it. We aren't happy about it. But we bought the RV to use and we learn to take matters into our own hands so that we can use it as intended.

I wish RV dealer service - especially warranty service - was the same as car dealer service. But its not. And since I can't make it so, I plan to do whatever it takes to keep my travel plans moving forward.

Amen! Couldn't have said it better myself! The frustrations are there but life is too short and my time is far more valuable than to allow dealers/service departments to make it even shorter. Fortunately, I can fix most things and if I can't then I'll hire it out to the applicable mechanic.

Al

[lenore]

Thanks folks, just wondering, I had a travel trailer By R-vision for last 15 years and it was pretty much maintenance free, bought it in 2005 and just sold it. Yea I can fix everything, that is not the issue, but I guess for times sake and aggravation you folks speak wisely.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by lenore

The refrigerator has blown the overload protection circuit (Residential refrigerator) and I even repair it, but am nervous as to why it blew in the first place. I am running it now until my appointment to see if it dies.

By overload protection circuit do you mean it tripped a breaker?

If that's what happened, and you reset it, and it hasn't tripped the breaker since, what do you expect the dealer to do? The dealer will turn it on, if it works without tripping the breaker he'll say. "It's all fixed."

If it was me, I'd save myself the trouble of taking the RV in for service if I couldn't demonstrate the problem repeatedly. And, if it didn't trip the breaker again I'd not list that as a problem I'd need to have solved.

I understand that it's a new RV. And, that you had a real problem with a faulty inverter (which maybe could explain the tripped fridge breaker??) that had to be replaced. But it's best to take these things in stride. Stuff happens. Don't let it ruin the fun of using your RV.

[Old Crows]

Thanks for posting CreativePart.....



Interesting article even though it seemed to 'ramble' a bit in parts. Our View Profile is our third RV. Being a 14, it appears to have a bit better quality than it's contemporaries. That said, when you start looking at the 'details' behind the curtains and drawers, it is clear that although it's fit and finish are fine and look good to the eye, the 'guts' seem to be missing the same care and attention to detail. (When you take the time to put in a set of quality drawers.... take the same level of detail and attention to building the frame holding them. DO NOT USE cheap wood that looks like it came from the scrap heap at a big box store!!!) It's an RV so as my FiL would say.... "It is a kit. All the parts are there. You just have to assemble and adjust things." Nothing has changed since his days of RVing.



I think the decline in quality is similar to that of Boeing and the problems with the 737Max. Mfgrs are more interested in the 'bottom line' for investors and paying outrageous salaries to the CEO and Chief Minions as well as providing platinum parachutes. No penalties for screwing up proving once again the adage of "Screw up - Go up!" remains true. And in the dust storm of purchasing other companies, businesses and enhancing profits, the consumer (the guys and gals who actually make the company profitable by BUYING the stuff) are forgotten. After all, they got your money. So Pffffffft!



I'd not expect that there would be any lasting effect from increased training of workers. When you are paying absolute minimums and near zero bennies workers tend to leave. Why invest in them? The idea of 'mass production' and 'fast through put' just kills the workers. Eventually, they will also leave. So why invest in them. Besides, all that profit they made goes to over paid execs, board members and the share holders.



Then there's the issue of engineering and design. Take for example the refrigerators. Now who in the hell would lay out a design that puts a 15 cent fuse on the top of the fridge buried behind fascia and requires the shifting of the unit to access it ... if it fails???????? That's just dumb design. Sort of like building a car that has to have the engine mounts removed and the motor jacked up to replace a spark plug.



RVs are complicated beasts. A house on wheels. Stuff breaks But you shouldn't have to put things in order right after a purchase. And.... it should be covered under an effective warranty program.

[lenore]

Originally Posted by creativepart

By overload protection circuit do you mean it tripped a breaker?

If that's what happened, and you reset it, and it hasn't tripped the breaker since, what do you expect the dealer to do? The dealer will turn it on, if it works without tripping the breaker he'll say. "It's all fixed."

If it was me, I'd save myself the trouble of taking the RV in for service if I couldn't demonstrate the problem repeatedly. And, if it didn't trip the breaker again I'd not list that as a problem I'd need to have solved.

I understand that it's a new RV. And, that you had a real problem with a faulty inverter (which maybe could explain the tripped fridge breaker??) that had to be replaced. But it's best to take these things in stride. Stuff happens. Don't let it ruin the fun of using your RV.

There is a overload protector that is a one time fail and a start relay in a residential refrigerator. The Start relay turned out being good, but the overload protector is probably just a slow fail fuse that blew. I had to order it from Amazon and when I put it in with the start relay the compressor came to life. But like anything with a fuseable link, what made it blow the first time. You have to take the compressor cover off to get to this fuseable link. So normally an appliance repairman would be doing this. I am running it now until the appointment to see what happens. I already see the weak point of compressor refrigerators not designed for motorhomes is that the compressor is being bounced around when going down the road. I believe Winnebago installed this to save money on their end because the refrigerator can be had for less than $200. Maybe not a good deal for the consumer in the long run.

[lenore]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

Thanks for posting CreativePart.....



Interesting article even though it seemed to 'ramble' a bit in parts. Our View Profile is our third RV. Being a 14, it appears to have a bit better quality than it's contemporaries. That said, when you start looking at the 'details' behind the curtains and drawers, it is clear that although it's fit and finish are fine and look good to the eye, the 'guts' seem to be missing the same care and attention to detail. (When you take the time to put in a set of quality drawers.... take the same level of detail and attention to building the frame holding them. DO NOT USE cheap wood that looks like it came from the scrap heap at a big box store!!!) It's an RV so as my FiL would say.... "It is a kit. All the parts are there. You just have to assemble and adjust things." Nothing has changed since his days of RVing.



I think the decline in quality is similar to that of Boeing and the problems with the 737Max. Mfgrs are more interested in the 'bottom line' for investors and paying outrageous salaries to the CEO and Chief Minions as well as providing platinum parachutes. No penalties for screwing up proving once again the adage of "Screw up - Go up!" remains true. And in the dust storm of purchasing other companies, businesses and enhancing profits, the consumer (the guys and gals who actually make the company profitable by BUYING the stuff) are forgotten. After all, they got your money. So Pffffffft!



I'd not expect that there would be any lasting effect from increased training of workers. When you are paying absolute minimums and near zero bennies workers tend to leave. Why invest in them? The idea of 'mass production' and 'fast through put' just kills the workers. Eventually, they will also leave. So why invest in them. Besides, all that profit they made goes to over paid execs, board members and the share holders.



Then there's the issue of engineering and design. Take for example the refrigerators. Now who in the hell would lay out a design that puts a 15 cent fuse on the top of the fridge buried behind fascia and requires the shifting of the unit to access it ... if it fails???????? That's just dumb design. Sort of like building a car that has to have the engine mounts removed and the motor jacked up to replace a spark plug.



RVs are complicated beasts. A house on wheels. Stuff breaks But you shouldn't have to put things in order right after a purchase. And.... it should be covered under an effective warranty program.

Agreed, but so be it in my situation.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by lenore

There is a overload protector that is a one time fail and a start relay in a residential refrigerator.

Yikes that is more of an issue. Good thing you found it. Do you think the inverter failure could have played a roll in this?
We have a large residential 3-door fridge in our Class A. We love it compared to our previous RV fridges. In 2 1/2 years and 25,000 miles of bumpy roads we've had no issues. Fingers crossed. (I probably should never have put that thought in writting )

[lenore]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Yikes that is more of an issue. Good thing you found it. Do you think the inverter failure could have played a roll in this?
We have a large residential 3-door fridge in our Class A. We love it compared to our previous RV fridges. In 2 1/2 years and 25,000 miles of bumpy roads we've had no issues. Fingers crossed. (I probably should never have put that thought in writting )

Well that is good news, maybe I am gun shy about the compressor not taking the bumps, Now you make me feel better, maybe that little 7.4 cubic foot refrigerator will work fine now. I did provide a new access panel behind it so that it does not have to be drug out to get to the compressor and relay. So at least modification one is ready for service.

[Sun_Seeker]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

Thanks for posting CreativePart.....



Interesting article even though it seemed to 'ramble' a bit in parts. Our View Profile is our third RV. Being a 14, it appears to have a bit better quality than it's contemporaries. That said, when you start looking at the 'details' behind the curtains and drawers, it is clear that although it's fit and finish are fine and look good to the eye, the 'guts' seem to be missing the same care and attention to detail. (When you take the time to put in a set of quality drawers.... take the same level of detail and attention to building the frame holding them. DO NOT USE cheap wood that looks like it came from the scrap heap at a big box store!!!) It's an RV so as my FiL would say.... "It is a kit. All the parts are there. You just have to assemble and adjust things." Nothing has changed since his days of RVing.



I think the decline in quality is similar to that of Boeing and the problems with the 737Max. Mfgrs are more interested in the 'bottom line' for investors and paying outrageous salaries to the CEO and Chief Minions as well as providing platinum parachutes. No penalties for screwing up proving once again the adage of "Screw up - Go up!" remains true. And in the dust storm of purchasing other companies, businesses and enhancing profits, the consumer (the guys and gals who actually make the company profitable by BUYING the stuff) are forgotten. After all, they got your money. So Pffffffft!



I'd not expect that there would be any lasting effect from increased training of workers. When you are paying absolute minimums and near zero bennies workers tend to leave. Why invest in them? The idea of 'mass production' and 'fast through put' just kills the workers. Eventually, they will also leave. So why invest in them. Besides, all that profit they made goes to over paid execs, board members and the share holders.



Then there's the issue of engineering and design. Take for example the refrigerators. Now who in the hell would lay out a design that puts a 15 cent fuse on the top of the fridge buried behind fascia and requires the shifting of the unit to access it ... if it fails???????? That's just dumb design. Sort of like building a car that has to have the engine mounts removed and the motor jacked up to replace a spark plug.



RVs are complicated beasts. A house on wheels. Stuff breaks But you shouldn't have to put things in order right after a purchase. And.... it should be covered under an effective warranty program.

---------------------------------------------------------


Excellent post...right to the matter! BTW...do you remember the Shelby 500 HP Mustang? You needed to remove all the engine supports and then lift-jack up the entire engine to access the spark plugs. To one that could afford to buy one...they probably also muttered...."Pffffffftttt..." ....LOL! The world as it turns....

[Sun_Seeker]

Originally Posted by creativepart

This article rings totally true to me:
https://www.curbed.com/2019/9/18/208...s-poor-quality

Just thought to add another element of buying any form of RV:

To any prospective purchaser of any type of RV/TT, from any manufacturer:

...while you might find a dealer out of county, out of State/Province, that will lob off another one to three thousand dollars off the asking price, over your most nearest dealer to where you live, will camp, will store...etc, .... you need to know, or dwell on this---->...ANY dealer, that knows where you live, (and will...) and sees that you purchased your RV and/or Travel Trailer, from another dealer, and worse yet...from one either next county, or out of state, will...when you bring it in for warranty, or regular general maintenance, WILL, not break their cubes, to get you in, 'right away', for Service, even if an emergency, or threatening lack-of-use-until-warranty and/or out-of-warranty repair is in play,...and you could seriously wait weeks to MONTHS lost in the Camping Season, before any warranty or out-of-warranty repair will be effected.

Just ask anybody around these forums, and if they are honest, will tell you that. Dealers will take care of their own 'have sold the owner, the RV/TT' customers BEFORE any others! And nobody could blame them for that practice, and is a good method of rewarding customers that bought off their lot, as well as reinforcing the 'need' to 'scratch my back, will scratch yours' dealer/customer post-sale relations.

This is my personal take: ...sometimes, you need to look at the total picture, as in who do you expect to take care of your warranty and general maintenance/repair....your most closest, convenient dealer/business/ to where you live/operate,---> or the one hundreds of miles away from your home-base-of-usage, where you closed on that 'killer' purchase price?

Many TT/RV purchasers, new into RV/TT'ing, or even long-in-the-tooth, have fallen into the still-in-warranty/ out-of-warranty, service bottomless well...because they didn't buy from the dealer they most want to drop in on...for that very service...

Something one might want to think about...before you decide to buy from any one dealer that sells the TT you are interested in. One of the best 'investments' concerning RV/TT's you can MAKE...is in creating a great 'working' relationship with the dealer that will be offering warranty and/or general maintenance/repair towards your RV/TT. It's not ONLY about 'how much I saved'.....that makes into a wise purchasing decision....especially with RV/TT's (that is a given!), that take a beating going down the road,...and the manufacturing of the units, that--->can come with warranty needed repair, current model year, new, and SITTING ON THE DEALER LOT!

Post edit: Case in point...I purchased my 2018 Micro Minnie 1706FB as a used trailer, one model year old, at a local dealer, from my residence. Three weeks after the purchase, my entire Queen bed frame as built by the OEM, totally failed, and dropped down 4 inches into the Storage Locker below. On the way home from that camping trip weekend, I dropped into the selling dealer...and he directly, booked me into the Service Department, for a simply fabulous repair and remediation of the situation. I will never have another chance of bed frame failure, out upon the camping trail...and they apologized with profuseness, for what happened...and took me in, right away, the next morning for repair.

...and to the poster who said that he thinks most of the wood for any of the cabinet and bed frames are one grade above scrap wood, or the dimensions, that would be packaging for such things like a humidifier...yep...just ask my wife and I, as we heard a horrendous cracking/snapping sound while sleeping in our front side Queen Bed, and we sank 4 inches lower into the open space of the Storage Locker, just below the bed frame. Now..all is supported by the selling dealer custom build, by 2x4 framing, and 2x4 support posts under the front wall bulkhead, and the trailer side interior. No pass-through was lost in the Storage Locker.

That is a 'living example' of just what I am typing about...I supported their local dealership by purchasing...and THEY supported me (wonderfully!) as their purchasing customer.

I believe that if you own an RV...having, nurturing, and maintaining a great dealer/owner interaction, is as much important, as ,how much 'coin', you feel you saved, by not buying from the true dealer location, that you'd prefer to seek service and repair from. The way I see it, anyway.... I have had personal experience, through life, that that motivating force only...is seeking Fool's Gold..and in the purchase of my first TT ( I have owned three prior to this 2018 Micro Minnie 1706FB) , I learned that lesson early, and made mental and buying/procurement- correction. (smile).

Cheers,

Sun Seeker

[creativepart]

Sorry Sun Seeker, can’t agree. Your experience with your dealer is great. Ours and the legions of other RV buyers that get horrible service and long delays from their purchasing dealership know it’s not necessarily so.

It depends entirely on the dealership and their staffing, their sales, the demand for service and the abilities of their technicians.

[lenore]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Sorry Sun Seeker, can’t agree. Your experience with your dealer is great. Ours and the legions of other RV buyers that get horrible service and long delays from their purchasing dealership know it’s not necessarily so.

It depends entirely on the dealership and their staffing, their sales, the demand for service and the abilities of their technicians.

I am sure it depends like you said where you are. The lack of communication has been my first negative with my dealer, will return with comments after first visit with my coach.

[Sun_Seeker]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Sorry Sun Seeker, can’t agree. Your experience with your dealer is great. Ours and the legions of other RV buyers that get horrible service and long delays from their purchasing dealership know it’s not necessarily so.

It depends entirely on the dealership and their staffing, their sales, the demand for service and the abilities of their technicians.

Yes, that is unfortunate CreativePart, but I still stand by my comment, that you should first and foremost, choose in your buying decision, 'tier'...where you want to base your service out of, rather than the up-front cost of the unit. Bad service, customer indifference , will LONG, in bitterness, replace the 'sweetness' of that 'killer' price reduction, tens, to hundred miles away from your home base.

That was the brunt of my opinion. While I was shopping (and snooping!) around the four or five dealerships close to my home base, I scoured the Net for any critiques or thumb's up's...of each dealership, and settled upon the one, with the best user-customer interaction comments and ratings. I was most certainly not disappointed, by the thoughtfulness and care that I was shown, post purchase. My OEM bed frame collapsed and failed...couldn't use the trailer...the very next day after coming home from the camping trip...24 hours later,...and it was (the queen bed frame) re-built like a Sherman Tank!

Yes, I still stand, that future dealer service and interaction, is worth way more, then merely buying where the lowest asking or negotiating price for the RV/TT can be found. I did that in the past myself...got burned, myself...and learned by my second TT acquisition. From there on...no further regrets in TT ownership/service of such. I buy...my tow vehicle, and TT, based on future service to each, and not...necessarily, the lowest $$$ bottom line. Been there, did that...no-more!

Cheers,