2004 Itasca Sunrise 30W Water Heater failing on Electric

[ipoverord]

Good Afternoon everyone.


I have an old itasca that no longer makes hot water on electric. The rocker switch does not illuminate, although that may or may not be part of the issue. I am absolutely sure there is no breaker labeled water heater, and for the life of me can't find a breaker for it. Also there is no access port underneath I have seen discussed. Surely there is a breaker somewhere. I also have no idea how to remove the rocker switch. It does not seem to want to pop out, and I don't want to break it.


Any help would be very much appreciated.


Water heater performs normally on LP>


Thanks again.

[tderonne]

Your 120v wiring diagram may help.

EMS or not? Diagrams show a difference between them. Guessing you don't have EMS as the EMS setup has a unique breaker for the water heater. Looks like with the non-EMS setup it's paired with the microwave, and only labeled "microwave".

The light in the switch is 12 volt. It operates separately, could be burned out and not be issue, like you mention.

[ipoverord]

Thank you. Microwave makes sense. Any idea how to pull off the rocker switch to check that?

[Morich]

What type rocker switch is this? Plastic with a rectangle top to flip? Those can be a bit of bear to get out of the wall without marking it up a bit if what I'm thinking.
It may be a type that is easy to slide in and let springy clips on the back flip up to hold it.
Easy to release if you can get to the backside to press on those springy flaps? Hard to do from the front without digging into the wood, etc. it is mounted in!
Something like this maybe?
Click for larger view!


Considering the difficulty of getting this out, there are times when we can get to the rear of the water heater to check the element as an easier idea?
If you have a panel to get to the heater where the element is screwed in, there are likely two wires, one carries power in and one out of the heating element.
If you can get to those with a meter, one might check that power is getting there from the switch. If no power on either wire, then one might have to go to the switch to check??
But a failed heating element is not at all uncommon! So if you find power to the element going in, does it come out? That would indicate good if power goes to, through, and comes back out!
Then if not heating, look at the other end of that path as it has to have ground to have a good full circuit!

However if you find power going in but none on the other wire where it should come out, the heating element is open and needs replaced!

But it is also common for corrosion to collect on the wires at the rear of the heater, so wiggle and check them before doing too much of the hard stuff like digging the switch out of the wall?

NOTE? Also if you have the motoraid feature option, be aware of the relay shown on the drawing as an added point to check.

[be happy]

My water heat on my 07 Meridian stopped working when the lighted switch stopped working. The switch on mine is a two piece unit one being the switch and the other the case around it. The only replacement I was able to find was from Lichtsinn. Once I replace the switch the heater worked, it has something to do with the light is also a fuse. I would call Lichtsinn and order the switch and the casement it comes in.
https://www.lichtsinn.com/

You have a 120v breaker for the water heater. Double check your breaker panel. My heater switch is sperated from the rest of the ems stuff. I believe you can pop off the cover around the switch then unscrew.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by ipoverord

Good Afternoon everyone.


I have an old itasca that no longer makes hot water on electric. The rocker switch does not illuminate, although that may or may not be part of the issue. I am absolutely sure there is no breaker labeled water heater, and for the life of me can't find a breaker for it. Also there is no access port underneath I have seen discussed. Surely there is a breaker somewhere. I also have no idea how to remove the rocker switch. It does not seem to want to pop out, and I don't want to break it.


Any help would be very much appreciated.


Water heater performs normally on LP>


Thanks again.

ipoverord,
I just got to this thread. We recently went through much of the same with our water heater as you are. Our coach is too an '04. It's an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP. The important fact to know here is, what model/part number IS your particular water heater? There will be or should be some form of an identification tag just inside the water heater. For an example of a part number, this is ours: GCH10A-4E. The information I'm stating below is based on the fact that since your coach and ours are in the same year and make, this info *should* be accurate. Even though they are more than likely NOT the same model number. Ours is 10 gallon three way heat. Gas, 120V and *Motor-aid* Motor aid is basically a heat exchanger where heated coolant from the engine circulates around the water heater tank and pre-heats the water for heated water when you arrive at your destination.

First off, the lighted switch for controlling your 120V side of your water heater is ALL 12V. There is NO 120v at that switch. That switch simply conducts 12V power through it and routs that power do the front side of the water heater p/c board. And, there is an LED light INSIDE that switch that informs you that that switch is now in the ON position. There is NO FUSE in that LED SWITCH!!!! It is simply an LED, PERIOD.

If that LED fails, primarily ONLY the LED has failed, not the switch. The switch *should* continued to provide 12V power to the PC/control board in the front of the water heater. Now, once that control board in the front of the water heater receives a signal from that switch, the PC board will route that 12V power to two different directions. It will run power to the ECO switch which is in the front of the water heater. That ECO is an Emergency Cut Off switch. It's job is to handle over heating of the water, just in case the T-stat fails.

The second direction that PC board routes that 12v power is to the back of the water heater where there is a combination relay. It's a combination relay because, it's controlled by 12VDC but it's relaying 120VAC from the circuit breaker inside the coach, to the 120V/AC heating element in the back side of the water heater. And THAT'S how the basic system works. Again, this info is based on how ours operates which, should be very, very close to how yours operates only yours quite possibly is a different part number.

Now, to remove that lighted water heater switch from the wall, well, as stated, can be a bit of a bear to remove it without potentially causing some scratches. The sides of many of those types of switches have a form of a *barb* on them that once the switch is pushed into it's hole, the barbs spring out and do their job of tightly holding the switch to the wall or backing plate, whichever is there. Those switches are made to be installed, NOT REMOVED.

But, as you're finding out, you may need to remove it to do some analysis. You can however, do some diagnostics right at that PC/control board at the water heater. You can check right there to see if flipping that switch is in fact, presenting 12V to the board. Before I go on, I need you to say which model number of water heater you have. Otherwise, I might be instructing some things that might not apply.
Scott

[Brooks]

Any chance the heater was turned on before there was water in the tank the elements burn out extremely fast /

[Ray,IN]

Disconnet the 120V wires from the heating element, then test the element for resistance. If it is infinity/open the element is bad.
However that has nothing to do with whether the switch is good//bad. Yes there is a circuit breaker controlling that 120V circuit, it is a circuit breaker inside the main breaker panel for your RV. The water heater element is a separate dedicated 120V circuit.
Also your 2004 Winnebago MH has an EMS=energy management system. When on 30A shore power the EMS will load-shed to keep from tripping the shore power pedestal breaker.
You will have a Powerline monitor panel inside the coach, if the water heater has been dropped off-line electricity to the element is stopped and the light is lit by the water heater listing.
Cut all power inside the coach, like microwave and other large draws to see if the WH light goes out on the Powerline panel. When the light goes out, that switch on the WH should work, barring other failures.

[ipoverord]

I can't thank everyone enough for your input. I have replaced the 12 volt wall switch for the electric side and it looks normal (led lit). It is connected the breaker with the Microwave shared on the 20 amp. Resetting the breaker has no affect. Propane still works normally. by reading the suggestions, I need to check the relay that opens up 110 to the element, and the element itself. I have had no luck finding the relay, and the element must be on the back. The box the water heater is in does not have any entry openings that would allow me to get to the back and the compartment entry from the front has a little room but now way I could get in there and look at the back. Any suggestions on the Location of the relay, and do I have to pull the water heater to replace the element? Man not looking forward to that.
The Water Heater Model is GCH6A-10E (6Gal).


Thanks again

[Morich]

With the correct model number we can then go online to find reliable troubleshooting and parts info!
This is the parts layout for your item as model info given:
https://techsupport.pdxrvwholesale.com/?s=GCH6A-10E+

I did not do a deep dive at this time but it is normal on this site to find a good troubleshooting section. Perhaps, under the tech service manuals tab?
Item 24 is the element that needs checked and it does show on the back side. However, I am sure the wiring comes to the front if you check the manual for test steps for testing it. But it may also be other parts, so I go with their flow charts!

I trust their info far better than I trust my mind and ability to remember what each item needs to do a good job of sorting trouble! The guy that remembers things that deep may have trouble remembering where he lives!

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by ipoverord

I can't thank everyone enough for your input. I have replaced the 12 volt wall switch for the electric side and it looks normal (led lit). It is connected the breaker with the Microwave shared on the 20 amp. Resetting the breaker has no affect. Propane still works normally. by reading the suggestions, I need to check the relay that opens up 110 to the element, and the element itself. I have had no luck finding the relay, and the element must be on the back. The box the water heater is in does not have any entry openings that would allow me to get to the back and the compartment entry from the front has a little room but now way I could get in there and look at the back. Any suggestions on the Location of the relay, and do I have to pull the water heater to replace the element? Man not looking forward to that.
The Water Heater Model is GCH6A-10E (6Gal).


Thanks again

iporverord,
Your CGH6A-10E is or should be, almost identical to the CGH10A-4E that we have with a small difference of 4 gallons. The "10A" is a ten gallon and the 6A is a 6 gallon water heater. But, almost all the operation is identical including the wiring to and from it. For starters, there is NO 120V AC anywhere in the front wiring inside that opening of your water heater. ALL that wiring you see in and out of it and connecting to that PC/control board is 12 VOLTS! You stated that the new LED lit switch you installed is connected to the same breaker that your micro wave is. Well, not really so. It is and it isn't. As I stated earlier in the my earlier post here, that LED lit switch is purely 12V.

It conducts 12V through that switch down to the water heater. When you open the door to that water heater, you'll see the control board on the right side. Plugged into it will be TWO white plastic plugs. One of them will have four pins but only three wires are there. The other plug will have 6 pins on it and uses all of them. If you take a look at this PDF document, and scroll down to page 24, you'll see your exact wiring schematic and plugs I'm speaking of.

file:///C:/Users/TRUCK/Downloads/Atwood-Water-Heaters.pdf

All the analyzing can be done with either a 12V test light or a Volt Ohm Meter. The test light is easier to handle and gives quicker results. But both will give the same answers. One just tells results by lighting the light while the other one tells of voltage at each test point. Your choice on this Parter.


If you use a 12V test light, do yourself a favor and sharpen the tip to a finer point than what it came with. You'll need it to be a finer point because, you'll be probing the back side of all those wire entry points on the white plastic plugs. The tip of that 12V test light needs to be small enough to probe inside the entry and touch the pins. Always make sure the aligator clip/clamp on the 12V test light is connected to a well known working GROUND!

There is power (12VDC) going INTO that control board and 12VDC coming out of it at the various pins on those white plugs. This is why it's sort-a critical to know what each wire does.

Now, if you want to simply cut to the chase here and go right to your potential issue(s), there are two back-pin checks you need to perform pertaining to the 120VAC operation of that heater. The WHITE wire entering the top plug (4-pin) is the wire coming from the new LED lit switch you recently installed. If you flip that switch to the ON position, you should see the red LED light up, correct?

Now, if you go to the water heater, using a 12V test light, and the aligator clip on a known good ground, probe the entry point for that WHITE wire on that top plug. If your test light lights up, you have power to the control board, good! Now, there is a YELLOW wire coming from the 6-pin plug below. That Yellow wire is the 12V wire coming from the control board that directs 12V power to the relay ON THE BACK OF THE WATER HEATER! If you probe that entry point for that YELLOW wire, and your test light lights up, you know you have 12V power coming from the control board and being sent to the relay. You know that part of the 120VAC operation is GOOD!

Now comes the tricky/hard part. You need to access that relay on the back side of the water heater. Where that YELLOW wire connects to the relay, you should also see your 12V test light light up. If you don't, you have a broken lead from the front of the water heater to the rear. If you do see it light up, you've got 12V power to that relay.

Now, you have to change testing parameters. You HAVE to use your VOM for this next test. And it will be set to A/C voltage. You should see 120VAC on one side of that relay. When the switch if flipped in the inside of the coach, through the yellow wire and to that relay, that should trip the relay and send 120VAC power through that relay to the 120V heating element. You need to check the other side of the relay to make sure, the relay is tripping and sending the 120VAC power through it. If you see that on your VOM, all is good to this point. Now, it's time to do what has been suggested. And that is to check the resistance of the 120VAC heating element also on the backside of that water heater. The results of that test have been stated

Sorry for the long answer but this is pretty much how you can analyze right down to the last point and know each section has passed or not passed.
Scott